8e - Shooting Phase (now with Charge Phase)

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/30/new-40k-shooting-phase-apr30gw-homepage-post-4/

EDIT:
Charge Phase is REALLY small, no need for new topic sense it is mostly about "overwatch" and that ties into shooting somewhat.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/01/new-warhammer-40000-charge-phasegw-homepage-post-4/

Can Incubi get their tormentor helmet back now? Updated for current Dark Eldar design of course.

Damn the cover being a +armor bonus seems like a huge nerf for us.

Maybe shredders will ignore cover and actually have stats that will make you want to take them. One can dream can't they?

If we retain our 5+ armour save, and add in the +1/2 cover which it will more likely will be, against boltguns this gives us a 3-4+ armour save. (most standard infantry weapons probably won't have an ap value)

The heavy weapons rule change seems really, really, bad. Space marines lugging heavy bolters or worse everywhere and hitting on 4+ after moving is going to be a big thing.

I agree that it's a big change. I am undecided on whether or not it's "bad". Suddenly rangers with sniper rifles will be able to be fairly mobile, too.

Admittedly, though, I've not really heard much news that sounds positive for DE. It's quite possible that DE will need a redesign from the ground up in order to make them work effectively in the new system.

And it could that we're getting one. These rules provoke curiosity as to how jinking will work.

Hey at least scourges won't be snap firing dark lances after moving making them more of a long range vehicle sniper with a 3+ save in cover (assuming Ghost Armor is still 4+).

Fast vehicles will be exempt from the penalty just like they are now.

I'm telling you we're gonna be bonkers.

Mononcule wrote:

Damn the cover being a +armor bonus seems like a huge nerf for us.

How? In cover with a 4+ Kabalites will now need to be hit with the equivelant of current AP2 weapons to completely ignore our armour instead of all bog standard rifles doing the same (assuming the AP-3 we saw for the Lascannon to be a standard converson for AP2 weapons in 8th).

That sounds like one hell of a boost to me.

TeenageAngst wrote:

Fast vehicles will be exempt from the penalty just like they are now.

I'm telling you we're gonna be bonkers.

Hell, for Ravagers I'll take -1 on all 3 weapons over 2 at full BS and 1 Snap Shooting any day.

Bardicnonsense wrote:

The heavy weapons rule change seems really, really, bad. Space marines lugging heavy bolters or worse everywhere and hitting on 4+ after moving is going to be a big thing.

It seems to be there for the same reason as most of the changes they've shown, to free up tactical options during the game. At present heavy weapons teams are either no different to an immobile weapons platform or flat out ignored in favour of options with Relentless, like bikes.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

I agree that it's a big change. I am undecided on whether or not it's "bad". Suddenly rangers with sniper rifles will be able to be fairly mobile, too.

Admittedly, though, I've not really heard much news that sounds positive for DE. It's quite possible that DE will need a redesign from the ground up in order to make them work effectively in the new system.

Almost every aspect of the system is being changed from 7th to 8th, so it stands to reason that every single army is being redesigned from the ground up rules wise just so that it can actually work in the new system.

Imateria wrote:

Mononcule wrote:

Damn the cover being a +armor bonus seems like a huge nerf for us.

How? In cover with a 4+ Kabalites will now need to be hit with the equivelant of current AP2 weapons to completely ignore our armour instead of all bog standard rifles doing the same (assuming the AP-3 we saw for the Lascannon to be a standard converson for AP2 weapons in 8th).

That sounds like one hell of a boost to me.

Because the same cover can be used by units with better armor, for example a necron warrior. In the previous system cover was an alternative to armor.

... But the whole system is changed and DE get a rebuild, I'm really excited by the 8th edition!

Mononcule wrote:

... But the whole system is changed and DE get a rebuild, I'm really excited by the 8th edition!

Yeah. But still kinda nah... I think good things will remain good (like warrp spiders) and awful thing will still be awfull (like hellions)

Hope soon all card will be revealed

I don't know, but it almost sounded like wyches could almost be useful, armed with pistols( You also can’t shoot if there is an enemy with 1″ of you. The exception to this rule is pistols. Models with these hand-held firearms can shoot at the closest enemy target in the Shooting phase, even if they themselves are locked in combat! This is going to make characters with pistols <cough-Cypher-cough> incredibly deadly up-close.) can still shoot in the shooting phase even while in combat at the nearest unit "When picking a target, you won’t be able to shoot enemies that are in combat with other units" sounds to me like I can shoot the unit I'm engaged with, then continue beating them with a stick.

Salvo weapons might be different too, Splinter Cannons, will have to wait and see.

Also Night Shields on Vehicles might be really important in 8th (sense Infantry gets cover modifiers and maybe not vehicles)

EDIT: Hmm just thought of something, Pistol in melee + Corsairs!

So armored units will enjoy cover more...at the same time...weapons AP take a role on reducing cover and armor. Interesting. Splinter Fire will bounce of marines in cover. There will be more 3+ guys around.

And while units will be more clamped around cover they completely removed all the templates. Dont like this removal actually - was a fun part of the game.

I just hope our power from pain is useful in some way that makes it an actual toss-up of whether to bring Dark Eldar or Ynnari.

Also I hope Ynnari get retconned.

Azdrubael wrote:

So armored units will enjoy cover more...at the same time...weapons AP take a role on reducing cover and armor. Interesting. Splinter Fire will bounce of marines in cover. There will be more 3+ guys around.

And while units will be more clamped around cover they completely removed all the templates. Dont like this removal actually - was a fun part of the game.

Another look is that Blast and Large Blasts are D3/D6 sense we dont know all the rules yet they could ignore cover modifiers etc....

I wouldnt worry just yet until we see key words and more rules.

Wow, this shooting pistols at your close combat opponents thing might finally make blast pistols worth taking!

Creeping Darkness wrote:

Wow, this shooting pistols at your close combat opponents thing might finally make blast pistols worth taking!

Ive wanted this sense 5th ed, emailed Gw every ed sense asking for it XD

ATM in the current rules, a Pistol is equal points with 1/2 the range b.c the +1 attack, tho that +1 attack means nothing 99% the time, for SM they have a Power Sword with a Bolt pistol (which is for free) so there is no reason to get a plasma pistol. For Eldar, DE, Harlequins and Corsairs having a costly pistol with a S3 gun for the +1 attack is worthless.

But if they could shot it into combat (1 attack, so the bonus attack would basically be 1 shot) this makes the over costed pistols worth taking now.

I'll be interested to see if there are different "grades" of cover like there are now (i.e. trees do not provide as effective cover as ruins). I could see it being the case that all cover is made equal or that there are 2 or 3 grades of cover as opposed to the 4 we have now (6+, 5+, 4+, 3+). This leads me to wonder what happens if a save is brought beyond a 2+. I would assume you would still fail on the roll of a 1, but I could see it being either case that the bonuses help you maintain the 2+ save (like in Old World Warhammer) or that any such bonuses are lost completely.

I'm curious about how the Shadowfield will work (probably a flat 3+ invuln. if you ask me)

Will pistols also count as an additional close combat weapon in addition to being able to fire in combat?

Will Feel No Pain stay the same or just better your save, and if so by how much?

Of course, I'll just have to wait like everybody else.

I foresee return of Missile Launcher Long Fangs. And general increase in Missile Launcher popularity. It will surely have decent AP and decent range, and it will be able fire after move, no longer small blast syndrom. Everything will have it, scouts, tacticals, etc.

40k choices always tending to be all-round capable. Why take plethora of weapons when you can take one that will do all the jobs. They might upgrade some other weapons to a more decent level, but competitive players will always take that one weapon of choice.

Probably Assault Cannon will also return in numbers. High strength, probably decent AP. I have hopes that they wont make one weapon type so overpowered everyone will just spam it. I still remember times of assault cannon limits.

Tounguekutter wrote:

I'll be interested to see if there are different "grades" of cover like there are now (i.e. trees do not provide as effective cover as ruins).  I could see it being the case that all cover is made equal or that there are 2 or 3 grades of cover as opposed to the 4 we have now (6+, 5+, 4+, 3+).  This leads me to wonder what happens if a save is brought beyond a 2+.  I would assume you would still fail on the roll of a 1, but I could see it being either case that the bonuses help you maintain the 2+ save (like in Old World Warhammer) or that any such bonuses are lost completely.

I'm curious about how the Shadowfield will work (probably a flat 3+ invuln. if you ask me)

Will pistols also count as an additional close combat weapon in addition to being able to fire in combat?

Will Feel No Pain stay the same or just better your save, and if so by how much?

Of course, I'll just have to wait like everybody else.

From the example given it suggest that rather than different cover modifiers for different terrain, it'll be a case of terrain giving he +1 to specific units instead. The example they gave wa only Infantry will get the +1 in craters, so will ruins give the +1 to everything and will there be inbetweens?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/01/new-warhammer-40000-charge-phasegw-homepage-post-4/

Charge phase is up.