Best place to start?

Attention: newbie alert!

Just starting back into the hobby after a decade long absence, and so am at square 1. I have allowed myself an initial budget of about £80-£100 excluding paints, and obviously will be buying the xenos army book - but my question is what else would you recommend?

My initial thoughts are:

• Start Collecting box set with Archon, 10 Kabalite warriors, Raider, 3 Reaver jet bikes
  

• Box of 5 Incubi
  

• Venom
  

The idea being that the Incubi could accompany the Archon in the Venom and the warriors could mosy about the battlefield in the Raider for a mobile starting force which I could add to in future. Unfortunately I haven't grabbed the rules yet (see, newbie!) so don't know if this is allowed (e.g. how many people can ride in a venom) or sensible.

Any thoughts or tips welcome!

Cheers

Unfortunately an Archon can't ride in a Venom with a unit of Incubi in this edition.
If you want the most bang for your buck, I'd suggest picking up the Starter Set, Gangs of Commorragh and a Venom. That gives you an Archon, 10 warriors, 9 Reavers, 10 Hellions, a Raider and a Venom for around £85; the Reavers aren't a strong unit right now, but there's a very good chance that they'll be buffed in the next few months.

If it were me I would be tempted to pick up two starter sets so that you have enough models to play around with both Kabs and Trueborn. If you shop at somewhere like Dark Sphere you can get a decent price reduction. Two starter sets and a Talos/Incubi/Venom will fit into your £100 budget.

Keep your eye out on ebay for Reavers or Hellions as people are always selling them new on the sprue.

If you are starting on a budget like I did then you might find Scourge a good option because at £15.50 they are a good buy.

Elaborating on no Archon with Incubi: A Venom holds any 5 dudes. Incubi min squad is 5 guys. No room for the Archon's fat ass. Putting them in a Raider would work (10 dudes transport).

I can't disagree with Burnage. That is the best bang for your buck. However, it's not a good path to get a good, fun army on the cheap, IMO.
On the cheap, I'd buy a secondary pile of Kabalite models and Raiders. Pick up a Venom and you can use the Kab models as a small unit of Trueborn (super cheap elites).

But, Diurach, your collection plan is still totally viable: Put Archon and 9 Kabs in a Raider. But 5 Incubi in a Venom. Have them zip around together using the Venom as a protective block against the Raider. Unload Incubi when you're ready to bog things down even better.

My understanding is that yes you can have an Archon in a Venom with Incubi as in matched play you can field one under strength unit without paying for the unused model.

The problem with doing that is that even Incubi with 3+ save can be squishy and could fall to overwatch. So having just 4 in a squad is a risk. Remember that both your Archon and Incubi have to make separate charge rolls which also presents a certain risk of its own...as an under strength Incubi unit and a single Archon might be at risk when fighting alone.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

My understanding is that yes you can have an Archon in a Venom with Incubi as in matched play you can field one under strength unit without paying for the unused model.

The problem with doing that is that even Incubi with 3+ save can be squishy and could fall to overwatch.  So having just 4 in a squad is a risk.  Remember that both your Archon and Incubi have to make separate charge rolls which also presents a certain risk of its own...as an under strength Incubi unit and a single Archon might be at risk when fighting alone.

They really need to review this.

I think a lot of people want to put their Archon in a Venom with Incubi bodyguard, but the rules seem restrict the fluff when it comes to Incubi. I thought they were supposed to be bodyguard to an Archon and accompany him everywhere, but the rules seem to cater for having them as a stand alone elite shocktroop type unit.

Would be good if they gave rules to have 1 Archon and 4 Incubi as a single unit that can fit in a Venom and then have some additional buff or maybe have an upgrade for Incubi to give them similar rules to the Slyyth as a dedicated retinue for an Archon.

Vorl-Xoelanth wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

My understanding is that yes you can have an Archon in a Venom with Incubi as in matched play you can field one under strength unit without paying for the unused model.

The problem with doing that is that even Incubi with 3+ save can be squishy and could fall to overwatch.  So having just 4 in a squad is a risk.  Remember that both your Archon and Incubi have to make separate charge rolls which also presents a certain risk of its own...as an under strength Incubi unit and a single Archon might be at risk when fighting alone.

They really need to review this.

I think a lot of people want to put their Archon in a Venom with Incubi bodyguard, but the rules seem restrict the fluff when it comes to Incubi. I thought they were supposed to be bodyguard to an Archon and accompany him everywhere, but the rules seem to cater for having them as a stand alone elite shocktroop type unit.

Would be good if they gave rules to have 1 Archon and 4 Incubi as a single unit that can fit in a Venom and then have some additional buff or maybe have an upgrade for Incubi to give them similar rules to the Slyyth as a dedicated retinue for an Archon.

Either that or have a special rule on transports that allow to carry 1 extra HQ. Something like a VIP Longue Command Quarters.

The Strange Dark One wrote:

Vorl-Xoelanth wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

My understanding is that yes you can have an Archon in a Venom with Incubi as in matched play you can field one under strength unit without paying for the unused model.

The problem with doing that is that even Incubi with 3+ save can be squishy and could fall to overwatch.  So having just 4 in a squad is a risk.  Remember that both your Archon and Incubi have to make separate charge rolls which also presents a certain risk of its own...as an under strength Incubi unit and a single Archon might be at risk when fighting alone.

They really need to review this.

I think a lot of people want to put their Archon in a Venom with Incubi bodyguard, but the rules seem restrict the fluff when it comes to Incubi. I thought they were supposed to be bodyguard to an Archon and accompany him everywhere, but the rules seem to cater for having them as a stand alone elite shocktroop type unit.

Would be good if they gave rules to have 1 Archon and 4 Incubi as a single unit that can fit in a Venom and then have some additional buff or maybe have an upgrade for Incubi to give them similar rules to the Slyyth as a dedicated retinue for an Archon.

Either that or have a special rule on transports that allow to carry 1 extra HQ. Something like a VIP Longue Command Quarters.

Or they can just give it 6man transport like the Starweaver...... (If the starweaver become a 5man every i will literally burn my harlequins and send them the bill to replace all my models and sue them) thats how much i like the 6man options.

It seems trivial seeing the Venom is technically the lowliest of transports, why would an Archon choose it as their ride? Ravagers and Raiders are much more fancy and illustrious.

So my buddy and I have regular games in 7th, and for a while my Archon would always hunt down his chaos lord and kill him. Every game.

So we had a running joke that instead of killing the chaos lord my archon dragged his ass back to the dark city, had a Haemie resculpt him, and next battle there was a new dancing girl on the deck of the Archon's personal raider.

Yes my archon had a private raider with stripper poles for just him and his trophies! Don't judge me!

Lord Nakariial wrote:

It seems trivial seeing the Venom is technically the lowliest of transports, why would an Archon choose it as their ride? Ravagers and Raiders are much more fancy and illustrious.

What about the need for speed?

Marrath wrote:

Lord Nakariial wrote:

It seems trivial seeing the Venom is technically the lowliest of transports, why would an Archon choose it as their ride? Ravagers and Raiders are much more fancy and illustrious.

What about the need for speed?

If Archons had the need for speed they'd be able to take Reaver Jetbikes.

If they had the need for speed they could take their own personal razorwing. Honestly the only thing that feels right to have my Archon riding it is the Tantalus and that isn't the best place for him to be. But he's comfortable and can view the torment across the battlefield.

Luckily in my fluff my Archon is arrogant as hell, so riding into combat on the number one target thinking he is invincible works quite well for him.

Frankly, the DE should be able to pimp one transport per HQ out with special rules and wargear as the HQ's personal ride.

Specific upgrades for an HQ specific vehicle would be awesome, but the tax would be you need to take a Court (actually make them worth taking) to go with him.

Call the rule 'Archons Flagship'

Can select a Raider or Ravager and can select three of the following upgrades;

Macabre Expression: The Hull is adorned with the bones of countless victims, skulls tastefully mounted upon each jutted spike. "Aura of -1Ld to all enemies within 9"

The Court is Watching: A friendly unit of your choice within 3"  of the vessel gains +1 attack.

Enhanced Aethersails: If this model advances it may double its movement characteristic for the turn. Do not roll for Distance.

Flickerfield: Using the latest technologies, this vehicles invulnerable save is increased to 4+

Wraithsteel Hull: Through the torture and torment of captured Bonesingers, this hull was made from the songs of their anguish. Increase the toughness of this model to T7

Some ideas to start, of course but I think this would make them much more interesting.

FuelDrop wrote:

Frankly, the DE should be able to pimp one transport per HQ out with special rules and wargear as the HQ's personal ride.

That be funny, and fun.

Lord Nakariial wrote:

It seems trivial seeing the Venom is technically the lowliest of transports, why would an Archon choose it as their ride? Ravagers and Raiders are much more fancy and illustrious.

So could an Archon and Incubi bodyguard fit in a Ravager then? That could be fun...

Cheers for the help guys, I'm really grateful. I have found a place I want to buy from which does 20% off GW stuff, but I need to spend £75 for free delivery (would buy from my local store but due to my broken hand carrying it back would be a nightmare!). Am willing to spend a wee bit more than that though if it gets me a decent starter force I can play games with. Annoyingly can't seem to find anywhere online with a full selection of DE units - is this something to do with the 'drukhari' rebranding going on? I like to think the DE paid a marketing consultancy firm top dollar for the re-branding £££

Diurach wrote:

Lord Nakariial wrote:

It seems trivial seeing the Venom is technically the lowliest of transports, why would an Archon choose it as their ride? Ravagers and Raiders are much more fancy and illustrious.

So could an Archon and Incubi bodyguard fit in a Ravager then? That could be fun...

Would that they could, would that they could...

Quote :

anywhere online with a full selection of DE units - is this something to do with the 'drukhari' rebranding going on? I like to think the DE paid a marketing consultancy firm top dollar for the re-branding £££

I am not familiar with any 'drukhari'. It sounds like something from game of thrones. Clearly nothing to do with my Dark Eldar.

Lord Nakariial wrote:

It seems trivial seeing the Venom is technically the lowliest of transports, why would an Archon choose it as their ride? Ravagers and Raiders are much more fancy and illustrious.

Well I don't know about others but I bought the equivalent of two start collecting boxes, which gives me two troop choices and two raiders a piece which suits me well. I also got an Archon, and I love the look of Incubi so a box of them too. I also got a venom because they seem pretty good, put out a lot of firepower and are fast. So it made natural sense to put my HQ in the venom at this point. Rather than buying another raider and having him rattle about in it at this point.

Vorl-Xoelanth wrote:

Well I don't know about others but I bought the equivalent of two start collecting boxes, which gives me two troop choices and two raiders a piece which suits me well. I also got an Archon, and I love the look of Incubi so a box of them too. I also got a venom because they seem pretty good, put out a lot of firepower and are fast. So it made natural sense to put my HQ in the venom at this point. Rather than buying another raider and having him rattle about in it at this point.

Don't get me wrong, it's tactically sound, just not fluffy enough in my head canon so feel free to do so

@ FuelDrop

Quote :

It seems trivial seeing the Venom is technically the lowliest of transports, why would an Archon choose it as their ride? Ravagers and Raiders are much more fancy and illustrious.

7th edition codex adressed this : the Venom is faster, and smaller. It is designed to hide behind Raiders (which has become very difficult now with true LOS). It thus has a better survival rate, and is more suited to transport elite (trueborns and HQs).
Trueborns and HQs despise the Vatborn so much they absolutly love the idea of using them as meatshields, which is why they love the Venoms.

nerdelemental wrote:

Elaborating on no Archon with Incubi: A Venom holds any 5 dudes. Incubi min squad is 5 guys. No room for the Archon's fat ass. Putting them in a Raider would work (10 dudes transport).

I can't disagree with Burnage. That is the best bang for your buck. However, it's not a good path to get a good, fun army on the cheap, IMO.
On the cheap, I'd buy a secondary pile of Kabalite models and Raiders. Pick up a Venom and you can use the Kab models as a small unit of Trueborn (super cheap elites).

But, Diurach, your collection plan is still totally viable: Put Archon and 9 Kabs in a Raider. But 5 Incubi in a Venom. Have them zip around together using the Venom as a protective block against the Raider. Unload Incubi when you're ready to bog things down even better.

From reading around it seems that DE HQ choices aren't all that great, so I am now thinking of going for the original list but putting the Archon with the warriors in the Raider and putting the Incubi in the venom as you suggest. BUT the thought of getting two of the starter sets seems like a great deal, so am now thinking of doing that. So:

Am I right in thinking that Trueborn are a shooty unit, not a cc unit? Or are they both? (damn I really need to get my hands on that rulebook). I'm thinking that starting with two starter boxes for:

1 Archon (plus another I can convert into something else)
Accompanied by 9 warriors in Raider

10 Trueborn in Raider

6 Reaver jetbikes

Any good? I would probably add the Incubi with a Venom next because I love those models, but worry about a lack of anti-tank firepower this would give me early on.

Diurach wrote:

nerdelemental wrote:

Elaborating on no Archon with Incubi: A Venom holds any 5 dudes. Incubi min squad is 5 guys. No room for the Archon's fat ass. Putting them in a Raider would work (10 dudes transport).

I can't disagree with Burnage. That is the best bang for your buck. However, it's not a good path to get a good, fun army on the cheap, IMO.
On the cheap, I'd buy a secondary pile of Kabalite models and Raiders. Pick up a Venom and you can use the Kab models as a small unit of Trueborn (super cheap elites).

But, Diurach, your collection plan is still totally viable: Put Archon and 9 Kabs in a Raider. But 5 Incubi in a Venom. Have them zip around together using the Venom as a protective block against the Raider. Unload Incubi when you're ready to bog things down even better.

From reading around it seems that DE HQ choices aren't all that great, so I am now thinking of going for the original list but putting the Archon with the warriors in the Raider and putting the Incubi in the venom as you suggest. BUT the thought of getting two of the starter sets seems like a great deal, so am now thinking of doing that. So:

Am I right in thinking that Trueborn are a shooty unit, not a cc unit? Or are they both? (damn I really need to get my hands on that rulebook). I'm thinking that starting with two starter boxes for:

1 Archon (plus another I can convert into something else)
Accompanied by 9 warriors in Raider

10 Trueborn in Raider

6 Reaver jetbikes

Any good? I would probably add the Incubi with a Venom next because I love those models, but worry about a lack of anti-tank firepower this would give me early on.

They are not that great, this is true. I'd argue they are the worst HQ's in game.

They dont fill or buff and roles currently, they do not add anything to the army, their only good thing is the 2++, or Pick your Drug and then those arnt that good, since the 2++ can fail and be gone for ever, its on a S3/T3 guy as well.

The Eldar and Harlequins HQ's are leaps and bounds better in every way.

Hopefully we get good Stratagems when we take them, or just free CP.

Honestly? the best use I have found for the Archon so far is to have them stand in front of a unit of blasterborn or whatever and soak fire, should they somehow get separated from their transport. After all, you are losing a lot less by having your archon gunned down than you are by losing a unit of kitted out trueborn to the same firepower.