Anyone else feel a bit 'meh" with what's been "leaked" so far?

I actually can't argue with you there, Dark Elf Dave, that does sound cool and very thematic!

I mean, how realistic is it for soldiers armed with laser cannons or missile launchers to target a crazy looking elf on steroids holding nothing more than a fancy steak knife?

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

I mean, how realistic is it for soldiers armed with laser cannons or missile launchers to target a crazy looking elf on steroids holding nothing more than a fancy steak knife?

This is hilariously accurate!

I personally am stoked! The rules seem really fun and interesting, they will also offer a ridiculous amount of combinations to play with.

You wont be forced to take detachments of each separate faction and could build a list with a flayed skull kabal but have a haeme with grots for example, all you would lose on the grots is the blanket wide faction rules for the haeme but the haemes aura buffs would still work and you would still be able to give that haeme relics etc. I think. Unless the faction buff would still work due to the faction keywords.

Can't be 100% sure how it works get but I'm pretty sure you can't put keyword coven units in a kabal detachment if you want a kabal trait. Everything needs to have the kabal keyword, the only exceptions being the free agent units like incubi and scourges. Could be wrong though, we'll get full clarification once we have book in hand.

Thats the way i see it really, but it wont stop you from taking a wych unit or a coven unit in a kabal or vice versa as we are all dark eldar.

The more I think about it...

4++ compared to 5++

Is it really that more powerful? I think it is really good and I think I will use it, but compared to what they already had? It's a bit better not a lot better.

I'm excited!!!

All this confusion does kind of validate one of my previous points: picking an army has become wayyy more comolicated. For sure that will drive new players away to an easier codex. YES I know things will be clarified when we get the codex but doesn't mean it will be easy or even fun to do.Honestly not trying to be a hater but our dex seems wayy more comolicated than it ever needed to be imo

A valid point but eh, dark eldar has never been an army for the wary player. Few people just starting up 40k are going to be drawn to dark eldar, and once we actually have the codex in hand with the actual wording of how building our army works, I think it will be a lot less complicated.

It might seem daunting for new players...I think experienced players will welcome the complexity and rewards for getting the right blend.

When the codex goes on pre order, Table Top Tactics will put a battle report up and Lawrence is a massive fan of DE, he will go into as much detail as anyone you will find and he is a very successful player. It will be well worth tuning into that as it will provide some ideas and tactics you might otherwise miss.

Elegant Slaughter wrote:

All this confusion does kind of validate one of my previous points: picking an army has become wayyy more comolicated. For sure that will drive new players away to an easier codex. YES I know things will be clarified when we get the codex but doesn't mean it will be easy or even fun to do.Honestly not trying to be a hater but our dex seems wayy more comolicated than it ever needed to be imo

I am thinking multiple 5-man wrack units. Spamming soulburst for ynnari while they keep coming back... its about 54 bolter shots to remove one unit just to have it come back, or the enemy shooting the ynnari just to get swamped and locked by wracks. Just a thought.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

It might seem daunting for new players...I think experienced players will welcome the complexity and rewards for getting the right blend.

My thoughts exactly, the super DE fans like most of this forum are going to have so much fun tinkering around with mixing all the factions into one army. I can't wait.

Sounds like a good strategy if you want to run ynnari, but with all the new fun DE stuff I can't see myself doing that in the foreseeable future. Like many I am a DE purist.

DE purists for life yo !
It's probably true that list building will be more fun than ever but right now i'm still a bit meh about the way it's been executed. Yes I can't wait for the Tabletop Tactics review, Lawrence is da man! Very interested to see his opinion on the new True Kin.

The ONLY thing I'm meh about is the lack of leaks with point costs

I was a bit "meh" with some of the stuff we saw today. The stratagems were... nothing special.

- Highly situational redeployment+healing tool for 1 unit

- Sniper to a coven unit (the best one)

- Useless "shoot into CC, but don't use flamers"

Agree. Apart from titanium 4++ covens there was nothing to get excited about today. The strategem did seem really pointless as only that coven can be in combat and allow another unit of same coven to shoot into the combat. That leaves talos and the 1 or 2 wracks with guns... i wonder if scourge will be able to get around that? I know one thing for sure: the Drukhari FAQ is going to be huge! Probably a mini dex all by itself

Scourges won't get affected by that stratagem for sure.

The best thing you could do is, again, use it on a Tantalus/Reaper. And it's really a shame that those models (those i don't consider coven models) are the best candidate for the stratagems we previewed. It shows how inadequate those stratagems are for coven.

Do you think then that each obsession gets only one stratagem? What's your thoughts? I thought they might get more than one each.

Can the shooting into combat work vs. a character? Might be well worth it if so.

Each faction will definitely only get one stratagem, that's how it works for all codexes, but there will be lots and lots of more general stratagems we haven't seen yet.

It is unfortunate the stratagems aren't great, though personally I think the prophets of flesh one has potential for big wrack units. Also keep in mind we've only seen one out of three warlord traits for the covens (and there will probably also be non obsession specific traits on top of that), and none of their artifacts. Plenty more to see once codex is in hand. Man the wait is getting hard.

How come we didn't see any Coven relics today?

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Can the shooting into combat work vs. a character? Might be well worth it if so.

Following the normal rules, yes, probably. So only if he's the closest. Or if you shoot a sniper.

Elegant Slaughter wrote:

Is anyone else underwhelmed by what we have seen of the new 'dex so far?

I'm not underwhelmed per se, but it's fair to say that what we've seen to far hasn't sold me on the dex.

There has definitely been some good news (Blasters getting d6 wounds, some fun Relics etc.), but I've yet to see whether my main gripes with the book have been addressed (most of which relate to the abysmal HQ selection).

Elegant Slaughter wrote:

The seperation of the 3 sub-faction kind of bothers me. We already had Kabla/Cult/Coven only buffs and rules, that was enough to give each their own flavour imo.

I'm inclined to agree. Truthfully, I don't think we have enough units for our army to be effectively split like this. The fact that each subfaction has just a single HQ (special characters notwithstanding) and that two of them are missing slots entirely are testament to that.

Now, I can get behind splitting us to some extent. For example, in 7th it worked well to give Haemonculi their own PfP table (not sure why it couldn't have been done in the codex, but I won't bother with such rants today). However, from what we've seen so far, it looks like there's only one PfP table. So we've still got 3 subfactions with different focuses all getting the same bonuses (probably still assault-based ones, because screw Kabal). Oh dear.

In addition, some of the Obsession bonuses don't appeared to have been particularly well tailored to their faction. Kabal, for example, has a PfP bonus (largely useless unless PfP boosts shooting now) and a melee bonus (in spite of having virtually no melee units). Okay.

And then we've got the 'spare' units - Mandrakes, Incubi, Scourges etc., which aren't fortunate enough to be allocated a faction.

Maybe it will work out, but so far it all looks like a bit of a mess to me.

On the other hand, if our HQs get the improvements they so desperately need (not least some sodding mobility), then I think it could be quite fun. From a flavour perspective, I do like the idea of splitting my army into little groups, each with its own leader. Hence, whether I'm underwhelmed with this will come down to what our HQs look like. If they're good and mobile, great! If not, then being forced to take more of them will just pour salt into the wound.

Elegant Slaughter wrote:

I don't see the problem with a haemo leading a load of kabalites on a raid.

Nor do I. It's certainly odd that the 'Masters of Flesh' are apparently better at aiding Raiders than they are at helping non-Coven DE infantry.

Elegant Slaughter wrote:

Anyway I am babbling. So from the rules we have seen I think splinter racks suck! What was so overpowered by re-rolling all hits?

It's certainly disappointing that every other TL weapon had its shots doubled in 7th, but Splinter Racks only give an extra hit on a roll of 6 to-hit. Maybe doubling shots would have been too strong, but I'm not convinced that it needed to be this weak.


The thing is, though, my complaints so far are pretty minor and there's certainly nothing that has put me off the codex. Likewise, if the HQs are still garbage, then everything positive I've seen thus far will be irrelevant. Until then, I simply don't have enough information to make a decision.

Incidentally, I believe I've stated that if Archons are able to take wings, I will not complain about anything else in the book.

No, no I am not even the tiniest bit dissapointed with what we've seen so far lol.


You're seriously complaining? (no offense, but... wow)

I'm stoked, looks like everything has bee improved. Until the whole codex is revealed as a whole we really don't know how it's all going to work together.