Pure Wych Cult added 2k expansion list

Hey guys.

I posted here a while back about making pure Wyches work as a list.

Basically I’m just trying to make an effective army out of the models I like the look of.

It’s a 3 Patrol list that will be single cult, I want a cohesive army look. I haven’t decided yet which one, probably the red grief. But I’d like to hear opinions on that vs Strife.

Patrols are basically cut and paste with additions at the end

Patrol 1
Succubus

5 wych

Venom
Venom

6 Reavers, 2 blasters, 2 cluster caltrops

5 scourges, 4 blasters

2 Razorwings, 2 dark lances

Patrols 2&3
Succubus

5 wych

Venom

6 Reavers, 2 blasters, 2 cluster caltrops

Rough total 1400. So 100pts left for upgrades.

Thoughts? Viability, tacktics.

You definitely want to run red grief for this list, since you have such a heavy reaver focus you definetly want to want to use red grief since it benefits them more than any other trait.

Main concern I'd have for this list is can it work with the amount of firepower you have, especially considering you seem a bit lacking armor penetration. I'd try this out, see hot it work and then maybe see if you need more scourges/jetfighters, since those two units are probably the best source of firepower you can get for a pure cult list.

Yeah... unfortunately it seems to me that 5 wyches in a venom may be cheap, but not super useful, or at least not as useful as larger units with basically any other sort of delivery system (Raider or Webway). This is basically down to the fact that overwatch exists : /. I suppose charging with the Venoms to soak Overwatch is one way to mitigate, but I think of venoms as 'lurking' units, not 'in your face' units... and therefore they really work best with kabalites who can do something from the transport instead of just waiting to grab objectives.

I often build my Troops to 'scale' to the amount of danger I'm going to be putting them in: 5 for sneaky objective grabbers, 10 for transports, or 16+ for 'mobs'. Your 100 points could easily turn two of your units of 5 into units of 8-9 in Raiders instead of venoms. This also lets you spread out your HQs so they're not stealing a venom from one of your units to keep them out of harm's way until they see combat.

I also personally really want to try a full 20 wych squad through a Webway portal. At small point values the CP cost may be too high, but it would certainly be fun.

With 10 blasters and 4 lances I think your firepower will be decent... It might be worth swapping one Reaver unit to another of Scourges if you find that armour is an issue.

Happy hunting,

The Good Doctor.

Huh interesting list.  At 1500 points you have 8 blasters and 4 lances, which I will go ahead and disagree with a few comments here, and say I think that is enough AV at 1500.  I do see some potential pitfalls you will need to watch out for when running it though.  Your razorwings and reavers are both prime targets for your opponent.  The razorwings because he doesn't need to shoot his AV at anything else (venoms are killable by anything lets face it) and the reavers because your list is HEAVILY reliant on your reavers doing well.  They are both one of your main AV sources, AND important to get into combat.  Do remember Reavers can't charge they turn they leave combat like Hellions, so while turn 1 might be move shoot blasters at a vehicle and jump into a combat to hide from shots, your 2nd turn is a lot more awkward.  Either you have to stay in combat assuming the reavers or their target don't die (reavers aren't great in melee) and miss out on 6 blaster shots which would be super detrimental to your list, or move out get your blaster shots, and then likely die to shooting.  The reavers are also in danger of getting counter charged by a dedicated melee unit, and they will lose to most dedicated melee handily.  

Basically thats the biggest worry in your list.  You are featuring reavers prominently, 18 is a lot, and not using them in assault will make your list lose, and not using them as AV will make your list lose.  The new codex certainly makes reavers more viable, just not sure if they are strong enough to carry a list, as both your main assault and AV.

Going forward as you expand your collection I would grab another 2 squads of scourges, and another razorwing and/or MAYBE a voidraven, not sure if they are cheap enough points wise or not but they are close now.  Should help shore up potential problems at higher points values, as well as take some of the pressure off your reavers.

GrinNfool wrote:

Basically thats the biggest worry in your list.  You are featuring reavers prominently, 18 is a lot, and not using them in assault will make your list lose, and not using them as AV will make your list lose.

Damn very good point. I've been writing lists endlessly for the last couple of days, and no pure wych lets seem to hit the mark.

I'm now playing around with Kabul as well.

But as far as cult goes, I'm wondering if Strife is the way to go, as with red grief you loose out on pretty much all of your shooting -1 with the assault weapons. And how often are you actually going to need that 8in on top of the 18 + 2d6 (re rolled from turn two). With strife at least all your units benefit from the obsession.

Basically what you are all saying is drop a reaver and add some more wyches and Scorges or a razorwing.

How’s this look?
Basic idea is to use the sails strat to get a raider into combat 1st turn with a threatening cc unit. Two reavers to tie up heavy support units. 2nd Raider to 2nd turn charge along with succubus’s. Scourges to drop as necessary.

3 patrols
Succubus 50

10 Wyches: 2× 2 hydra gauntlets; shardnet and impaler; Hekatrix (agoniser; phantasm grenade launcher) 100

6 Reavers: 2× blaster; 2× cluster caltrops 158
5 Scourges: 4× blaster 128

Raider: shock prow 86
Venom 55

Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145
Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145

Pat 2
Succubus 50

10 Wyches: 2× 2 hydra gauntlets; shardnet and impaler; Hekatrix (phantasm grenade launcher) 96

6 Reavers: 2× blaster; 2× cluster caltrops 158

Raider 85

Pat 3
Succubus 50

5 Wyches: 2 hydra gauntlets; Hekatrix (phantasm grenade launcher) 47

5 Scourges: 4× blaster 128

1,481 points

benmet wrote:

How’s this look?
Basic idea is to use the sails strat to get a raider into combat 1st turn with a threatening cc unit. Two reavers to tie up heavy support units. 2nd Raider to 2nd turn charge along with succubus’s. Scourges to drop as necessary.

3 patrols
Succubus 50

10 Wyches: 2× 2 hydra gauntlets; shardnet and impaler; Hekatrix (agoniser; phantasm grenade launcher) 100

6 Reavers: 2× blaster; 2× cluster caltrops 158
5 Scourges: 4× blaster 128

Raider: shock prow 86
Venom 55

Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145
Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145

Pat 2
Succubus 50

10 Wyches: 2× 2 hydra gauntlets; shardnet and impaler; Hekatrix (phantasm grenade launcher) 96

6 Reavers: 2× blaster; 2× cluster caltrops 158

Raider 85

Pat 3
Succubus 50

5 Wyches: 2 hydra gauntlets; Hekatrix (phantasm grenade launcher) 47

5 Scourges: 4× blaster 128

1,481 points

This is starting to look much more solid, but there are a couple list building errors before I go into the thoughts on it. 5 wych squad can't take 2 hydras, and the first cannon on a venom isn't optional, so its 65 not 55.  This would take you to 1491 because you probably replace the 2nd hyrda with agon and thats the same cost ( didn't check your math just added 10 lol).

List suggestion wise, I would run the Reavers as either red grief, or strife, both are solid, and put both reavers into that patrol.  I would run your patrols with the 10 man squads as Cursed blade, because str 4 wyches, and no worries on morale.  So basically put your 5 man wych squad with your reavers, and probably your flyers.

2nd suggestion is maybe change the 1 or 2 raiders to dissies, and then upgrade the venom to a raider with dissie (15 points more than a venom)  If you change 1 you would need to drop a phantasm but thats no big deal.  The third raider would let your 3 succubi ride with the 5 man wych squad.  Would also give you 6-9 s5 ap-3 2 damage shots which would let you possibly target important infantry units or shave some wounds off vehicles as needed, more flexible than lances.  And since you now have 12 blasters, I think its reasonable to change 2 lances to dissies.  Overall I think it would be a reasonably good list, you aren't gonna the THAT guy with the list, and it should be fun to play.

Yep... getting closer for sure.

At this point a third Raider makes sense IMO; and then 9 times out of 10 you'll want the Succubi to just be broken out one in each Raider to maximize redundancy instead of leaving quite literally all your eggs in one basket. This means that you can't take a the max wych weapons of a unit of 10, but that should be more than made up for by the fact that each Troop will have its own Succubus.

As to Obsessions, changing it up between the Patrols could add some flavor for sure.

Happy hunting,

The Good Doctor.

Thanks guys. The pants are just rough at the moment. But the hydra gauntlets thing is just the way its written in quartermaster. They just mean a pair of hydra gauntlets. But I was under the impression that Venoms where 55pts stock with the first Splinter Cannon. Obviously will wait until I get the book to do a proper list. There is still a bit of redundancy in things like cluster caltrops other up grades that I didn't change the cost of. So I should be able to go for 3 raiders... But I prefer the look of Venoms. Another consideration is how I plan on purchasing the models. The more I think about it, the more I think I'll go with Kabal/Cult/Cult. Just so I can have some venoms kicking around.

My main concern with multiplel cults/obsessions is the painting aspect of it. How to get a cohesive force that will still function and look as a cohesive force in 3-5 years when they change the rules set again. I might post a topic in the discussion part of the forum to find out how people are planning on tackling that.

Good stuff.

I'll be getting my venoms from Kabals as well. 24" blasters and 30" splinter fire are just too good to pass up for me. Although ignoring cover from the ride is also a potentially great one that I'll play around with. As to multiple Obsessions, picking a common base colour or two with some different accent colours should be sufficient to highlight differences while keeping the force in general pretty consistent.

Happy hunting,

The Good Doctor.

Last crack at this. Different take.
Battalion detachment + air wing.

Only two hqs required, and now that I’ve just read that succubus can take wych weapons, I can get diversity in modeling. Shardnet and impaler on one and warlord with -1 invuln and relic glaive.

Same cp’s, no need for different markings. Air wing will be Flayed Skulls.

Succubus 50
Succubus 50

10 Wyches: 2× 2 hydra gauntlets; shardnet and impaler 93
9 Wyches: shardnet and impaler; Hekatrix (agoniser; phantasm grenade launcher) 84
9 Wyches: shardnet and impaler; Hekatrix (agoniser; phantasm grenade launcher) 84

6 Reavers: 2× blaster; 2× cluster caltrops 158
6 Reavers: 2× blaster; 2× cluster caltrops 158
5 Scourges: 4× blaster 128

Raider 85
Raider 85
Raider 85

Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145
Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145
Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145

1,495 points

benmet wrote:

Last crack at this. Different take.
Battalion detachment + air wing.

Only two hqs required, and now that I’ve just read that succubus can take wych weapons, I can get diversity in modeling. Shardnet and impaler on one and warlord with -1 invuln and relic glaive.

Same cp’s, no need for different markings. Air wing will be Flayed Skulls.

Succubus 50
Succubus 50

10 Wyches: 2× 2 hydra gauntlets; shardnet and impaler 93
9 Wyches: shardnet and impaler; Hekatrix (agoniser; phantasm grenade launcher) 84
9 Wyches: shardnet and impaler; Hekatrix (agoniser; phantasm grenade launcher) 84

6 Reavers: 2× blaster; 2× cluster caltrops 158
6 Reavers: 2× blaster; 2× cluster caltrops 158
5 Scourges: 4× blaster 128

Raider 85
Raider 85
Raider 85

Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145
Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145
Razorwing Jetfighter: two dark lances 145

1,495 points

Overall pretty good. I think you have more dark light than needed at 1500, maybe consider changing 2 or 3 raiders to dissies? Will help deal with tougher infantry while being flexible enough to help vs vehicles. If grief I would run the an agonizer on 1 and the red grief relic on the other succubus. If strife, probably the agonizer relic and another agonizer.

I would also run the razorwings as black heart kabal. Your lances don't care about cover, and not that big a deal for 4 splinter shots, or even the missiles. The black heart gets you a 6+++ on to help keep the jets alive, and access to the black heart strategem, which could be huge in an army that is going to encourage people to try to interrupt you after you charge with multiple units. Just remember to keep 3cp in your pocket just in case you need to utilize it. Just the threat of that strategem is enough to mess with people.

Good point about the black heart.

I don't think the triple Patrol is the best approach here.

Since you already have 3 HQs and 3 troops, I would run a Battalion of Cult of Strife, and then a Spearhead of Red Grief Reavers. Same CPs, best buffs on both segments of the list for their contents.

Yeah good point. I’ll play with it. The poInt of the battalion and air wing was to reduce hq tax.

Black heart is overrated since everyone gets the 6+++ on first turn.

CptMetal wrote:

Black heart is overrated since everyone gets the 6+++ on first turn.

Vehicles don't.... which is the point of running vehicles as black heart if there isn't another obsession that is clearly better.  Airwings, and Spearheads of Ravagers are fantastic candidates to be black heart. Nets you arguably the best strategem in the codex and for spearhead you can get the arguably best warlord trait for DE. Black heart is pretty awful for kabalites though.

Alright now I have the codex and battle scribe seems to have updated the points final version taking into account all advice

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [20 PL, 323pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Cult of the Cursed Blade

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 50pts]: Archite Glaive, Splinter pistol

Succubus [4 PL, 50pts]: Archite Glaive, Splinter pistol

+ Troops +

Wyches [4 PL, 77pts]
. Hekatrix: Hekatarii blade, Splinter pistol
. 7x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

Wyches [4 PL, 77pts]
. Hekatrix: Hekatarii blade, Splinter pistol
. 7x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

Wyches [4 PL, 69pts]
. Hekatrix: Hekatarii blade, Splinter pistol
. 6x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [36 PL, 741pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Cult of the Red Grief

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 50pts]: Archite Glaive, Hyper-swift Reflexes, Splinter pistol, The Blood Glaive, Warlord

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [6 PL, 154pts]: 2x Grav-Talon
. Arena Champion
. 3x Reaver
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster

Reavers [6 PL, 154pts]: 2x Grav-Talon
. Arena Champion
. 3x Reaver
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster

Scourges [5 PL, 128pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [5 PL, 85pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Grisly Trophies, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Raider [5 PL, 85pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Grisly Trophies, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Raider [5 PL, 85pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Grisly Trophies, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [24 PL, 435pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Kabal of the Black Heart

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Dark Lances: 2x Dark Lance

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Dark Lances: 2x Dark Lance

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Dark Lances: 2x Dark Lance

++ Total: [80 PL, 1499pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

benmet wrote:

Alright now I have the codex and battle scribe seems to have updated the points final version taking into account all advice
....

Looks pretty good, I think if a Wych cult list is going to work this would be one that would have a chance.  You managed to still get 14 dark light and 3 dissies in there.  While bringing a good amount of melee threats.

If I HAD to nitpick I would say maybe switch one of the wych squads to 10 man, and let 2 succubi double up just for a couple more weapons.  Could possibly find the point by changing one of the razorwings to 2 dissies, and maybe power swords on the hekatrixes to give the squad a bit of a punch, can drop a couple phantasms for that?  I mean thats being really nitpicky though, I think it has a chance, pretty good curious how it will perform considering wyches haven't been viable in forever.

With the variety of stuff you can do with the Succubi, seems very boring to basically give them all the same equipment.

Yeah I know. But the Glaive is free vs paying for the other options that are just less good.

I’ll probably change it up a bit in the end. Just need to find the points.

Overall looks solid to me, fair amount of balanced wych units backed up by some firepower.

Wow battlescribe was very quick to get the new pts values up, that's very handy.

This is the 2k expansion

Thoughts?

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [30 PL, 513pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Cult of the Cursed Blade

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 54pts]: Hydra gauntlets

Succubus [4 PL, 55pts]: Shardnet and impaler

+ Troops +

Wyches [4 PL, 84pts]
. Hekatrix: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Power sword, Splinter pistol
. 7x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

Wyches [4 PL, 76pts]
. Hekatrix: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Power sword, Splinter pistol
. 6x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Shardnet and impaler

Wyches [4 PL, 83pts]
. Hekatrix: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Power sword, Splinter pistol
. 7x Wych
. Wych with Wych Weapon: Hydra gauntlets

+ Fast Attack +

Hellions [10 PL, 161pts]
. Helliarch: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Power Sword and Splinter Pistol
. 10x Hellion

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [50 PL, 1037pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Cult of the Red Grief

+ HQ +

Succubus [4 PL, 50pts]: Archite Glaive, Splinter pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [10 PL, 228pts]: 2x Grav-Talon
. Arena Champion
. 5x Reaver
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster

Reavers [10 PL, 228pts]: 2x Grav-Talon
. Arena Champion
. 5x Reaver
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster

Reavers [3 PL, 74pts]
. Arena Champion
. Reaver
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster

Reavers [3 PL, 74pts]
. Arena Champion
. Reaver
. Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models): Blaster

Scourges [5 PL, 128pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Dedicated Transport +

Raider [5 PL, 85pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Grisly Trophies, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Raider [5 PL, 85pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Grisly Trophies, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

Raider [5 PL, 85pts]: Disintegrator cannon, Grisly Trophies, Phantasm Grenade Launcher

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [24 PL, 435pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Detachment Attribute: Kabal of the Black Heart

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Dark Lances: 2x Dark Lance

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Dark Lances: 2x Dark Lance

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 145pts]: Twin splinter rifle
. 2 Dark Lances: 2x Dark Lance

++ Total: [104 PL, 1985pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe