Apocalypse site is up, incl 'How to Play' video

https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/

The site for 40K Apoc is up. It includes a rather informative 'How to Play' video.

Basically, it's Epic 40k, with full-sized models.

It has alternate activations, with players giving their detachments orders via face-down markers. During the action phase, players reveal and carry out their orders. The orders are Advance (normal move + shoot/assault if able), Aimed shooting (stay still and shooting with to hit bonus), and Assault (double move + assault if you get in BtB  with enemy units).

Each detachment will have a commander. A unit that is outside 12" range of its commander is 'out of command' and will suffer additional penalties if they are still out of command during the damage phase (as in, they will apparently automatically be routed if they take damage while out of command range).

All in all, I'm looking forward to trying out the new Apoc. Offhand, I'm hoping for two very specific things. 1) that commanders can maintain their command auras from inside vehicles; it's going to look really stupid if archons *have* to command fleets of fast-moving raiders, venoms, and ravagers while on foot and 2) points readjustment for titans - this one seems very likely, as Apoc uses its own point system for army-building.

This sounds like a very bizarre mashup of Warmachine/hordes and Warhammer 40k rules, but I am really looking forward to the Daemons and Druhkari faction focuses

krayd wrote:

Each detachment will have a commander. A unit that is outside 12" range of its commander is 'out of command' and will suffer additional penalties if they are still out of command during the damage phase (as in, they will apparently automatically be routed if they take damage while out of command range).

I can see this causing problems for us given how slow our HQs are compared to the rest of the army...

Burnage wrote:

krayd wrote:

Each detachment will have a commander. A unit that is outside 12" range of its commander is 'out of command' and will suffer additional penalties if they are still out of command during the damage phase (as in, they will apparently automatically be routed if they take damage while out of command range).

I can see this causing problems for us given how slow our HQs are compared to the rest of the army...

Which is why I'm hoping that commander auras will work from inside vehicles. Otherwise, it will be very silly.

I want to nominate Steve the aberration as my commander

Yeah, it's already kind of annoying that we won't get a box because they split us into three factions, but the fact that they probably won't let commanders lead from vehicles, meaning our armies will suddenly be extremely limited, as it will just turn into a big shoot-out

Well, my interest in Apoc may very well hinge on precisely how Commanders are handled.. particularly with regards to us.

I do expect that lance ravagers will be used a lot more in Apoc, as I bet that they will have a high SAT number relative to dissies, so they will be needed to bring down tanks and titans.

I may just switch to Apoc entirely if the rules are even semi decent. I really like playing with a lot of toys and I'd like an excuse to actually use a Wraithknight again.

Its looking good, i place an order for everything,a nd i might pick it up for normal 40k as well lol.

As far as the Commander? Yeah that does suck, i hope we get a special rule or something to help, otherwise i'm going to play my nids.

Apocalypse Datasheets are now online.

https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/datasheets/

Granted, without knowledge of the rules, one can only glean so much from them

While I don't see any specific rule in the DE datasheets that allows for command from inside a vehicle, that might be part of the 'Open-topped' rule that Raiders/Venoms/Tantalus have. It also might be a general rule in the main book for all I know.

There are a few other things that are puzzling to me (but might not be so when I get to see the full rules) - like why you would *ever* use flesh gauntlets instead of cleavers on grotesques. The cleavers just look objectively better.

Dissies/lances are handled as I expected: Disses have SAP 5+/SAT 10+, while lances have SAP 10+/SAP 5+.

The Archon's Shadowfield sounds especially painful here - going by how the rule is written, you can't re-roll saves for the Archon even after the 3+ from the Shadowfield has been lost.

Well, at least it should be fairly easy for GW to make errata adjustments.

krayd wrote:

There are a few other things that are puzzling to me (but might not be so when I get to see the full rules) - like why you would *ever* use flesh gauntlets instead of cleavers on grotesques. The cleavers just look objectively better.

They are equipped with flesh gauntlets and then you can take either a liquifier gun or cleaver as well for each model. which is incredible.

A power level 5 unit having 8 attacks in cc is really strong and at a full unit the are busting out 27 attacks... and thats asumming there isn't a card that buffs the attacks of the user because if they somehow get +1 attack thats 34 attacks... not many models have that. They will demolish in melee and be a high priority target. I imagine covens will have cards for durability cause these guys need your protection. or just msu raider them if open topped rules are like how they were in older editions where you move, then disembark and charge. thats wishlisting though

on that note, have sap stats of 5+on warriors is bananas and wyches are also very good. More durable then warriors, still have some poison shooting and their melee is very respectable, plus the no retreat rule. They have a lot to offer for the same cost as warriors.

Though it does look like they really took away weapon options for basically everything ... but that's probably to make shooting with large units easier

Basically, for kabalite warriors, it comes down to 2 loadouts. Splinter cannons to maximize anti-personnel, or dark lances to add anti-tank capabilities.

It is weird that kabalite warriors are easier to gun down than wyches. I guess they didn't want to bother with giving wyches a vastly improved save for just close combat attacks, so they just evened out their durability.

Archon_91 wrote:

Though it does look like they really took away weapon options for basically everything ... but that's probably  to make shooting with large units easier

It's apoc, a few guys with tiny guns dont matter, many of Apoc formations in the past was "these 3 units shoot together as 1 shot". This is normal Apoc stats TBH.

Its better this way, yeah gun load outs are better for 40k, when in Apoc you wont notice them at all. if you are not killing 30 models at once you need to rethink what you are doing in Apoc.

Harlequins faction focus is up:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/06/28/apocalypse-faction-focus-harlequinsgw-homepage-post-4/

Looks like there are specific benefits to having detachments composed entirely of one faction (similar to subfaction rules in 40k). For harlequins, it's Domino Fields, which give enemies a -1 to hit them. This is in addition to their Holo-Fields ability.

OOO, i didnt think they would get a faction focus at all. Nice!

Tho i only have about 3k Harlequins points, they... dont have many options to take so i didnt need many points lol.

Harlies also look *really* killy, with good anti-personnel and anti-tank wounding ability, and a LOT of close-combat attacks.

Mmm that they do though I do have to wonder why a harli solitaire has 4 attacks but our succubus and lelith only get 1? They are supposed to be pretty equal in skill based on lore ... and If we are gonna be death by 1000 cuts ... why don't we have 1000 cuts?

A Solitaire gets 10 attack in game right now were a succubus has 4, so seems ok to me. And no in lore a solitaire is much deadlier than a succubus, now... Lelith on the other hand should be better than solitaire.

Well, I have the book.

If a warlord is embarked on a transport, you just measure to the transport when determining command distance.

How does Heavy weapons work? To me, as a DE player, that is the single biggest issue considering our lances and blasters are all heavy....

Also, what is the min size for a game?

krayd wrote:

Well, I have the book.

If a warlord is embarked on a transport, you just measure to the transport when determining command distance.

WOOT!

krayd wrote:

Well, I have the book.

If a warlord is embarked on a transport, you just measure to the transport when determining command distance.

It looks like for transports, the unit disembarks when their detachment activates right? So couldn't you load up like a ton of raiders with incubi, grots or wyches, but put them all under a different detachment like a fast one with reavers and stuff. For your first activation use reavers to 40" charge any units that have aim fire order and double move all your raiders. Second detachment, choose the seperate detachment with everything in the raiders, disembark and charge for some seriously massive turn 1 charge distances?

Basically, put all the transports in a different detachment then the guys inside.