40k 9th Editon

Hekatrix Posts : 1057 Join date : 2012-04-13

Uhh.. not being able to shoot after you Fall Back on all our vehicles is a pretty big deal actually. There is a lot of firepower, especially the ones that don't degrade. There's literally a thousand and one things you can do with our weird ass vehicle shapes that makes charges unattractive, one of which is preventing your units from being charged.

I wrote an entire article series around Dark Eldar vehicle movement like 2 years ago:
https://lkhero.blogspot.com/2018/04/de-tips-and-tricks-on-movement.html

A lot of the same principles still apply today and as a Kabal-only gunboat player, this is a huge deal for me. A lot of the movement and positioning play from Dark Eldar relies on being able to manipulate the positioning of your craft and sacrifice as needed to buy your army another round of shooting from melee armies. Losing out on Venom shots, 3 S5 AP-3 2D shots from a Raider, especially if melee can consolidate and spend 3 CP to fight again for extra pile-in is big.

Sybarite Posts : 344 Join date : 2017-11-16

Yea it's huge, and I agree with Devildoll. There are so many bonuses against flying targets, that the fly keyword is now flat out detrimental. I've always felt like those bonuses should really be against proper flyers. Hopefully those bonuses will shift to the new aircraft keyword rather than skimmers too.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

Dalamar wrote:: Ok, listening to Brad Chester a few min ago confirmed the rumor, If you fall back you can do nothing unless you have an ability or Strat that allows you to. Fly no longer has that ability!!

His examples Harlequins, Ultra Marines

Link to video?

Subject: Re: 40k 9th Editon Mon Jun 22 2020, 22:27

amishprn86 wrote:

Dalamar wrote:: Ok, listening to Brad Chester a few min ago confirmed the rumor, If you fall back you can do nothing unless you have an ability or Strat that allows you to. Fly no longer has that ability!!

His examples Harlequins, Ultra Marines

Link to video?

No link but it was TeamBattleBrothers twitch channel today's stream.

Wych Posts : 609 Join date : 2014-02-09

On the most recent episode of FLG’s weekly 40k roundup, he was talking about falling back and hesitated for a second/seemed like he had to stop himself from saying too much when he said something along the lines of falling back in 9th is bad (worse than it already is) and you really don’t want to be doing it. It was really quick but stood out to me for how odd it seemed given rest of the interview.

Subject: Re: 40k 9th Editon Mon Jun 22 2020, 23:58

sweetbacon wrote:: On the most recent episode of FLG’s weekly 40k roundup, he was talking about falling back and hesitated for a second/seemed like he had to stop himself from saying too much when he said something along the lines of falling back in 9th is bad (worse than it already is) and you really don’t want to be doing it. It was really quick but stood out to me for how odd it seemed given rest of the interview.

Ahh... Glorious NDA's, Brad Chester has self admitted loose lips especially when in the company of Sean Nayden.

Hekatrix Posts : 1057 Join date : 2012-04-13

Uhh.. that doesn't quite make sense.

If you fall back with a vehicle or monster, you should be able to still shoot.

Wych Posts : 609 Join date : 2014-02-09

I’m not sure I follow. Big Guns Never Tire will allow monsters and vehicles to shoot non-blast weapons in close combat but we’ve seen nothing yet that says they can fall back and shoot unless they have a special ability or strat.

Hekatrix Posts : 1057 Join date : 2012-04-13

sweetbacon wrote:: I’m not sure I follow. Big Guns Never Tire will allow monsters and vehicles to shoot non-blast weapons in close combat but we’ve seen nothing yet that says they can fall back and shoot unless they have a special ability or strat.

It doesn't quite make sense why if you fly away from something in combat, you cannot shoot. I'm trying to rationalize this in my head, but this is what happens when you streamline too hard.

There is literally no update that has come out already that has been beneficial for gunboat DE.

Wych Posts : 500 Join date : 2012-08-05

It makes a bit of sense. If a unit got engaged at point blank range, it usually isn't going to do an orderly fall back. Sure, some shots will be fired, but I don't think it would be an orderly positioning and organized firing in specific targets.

A tank... Maybe. A bunch of jump back infantry? No. But even tanks can get hammered by IED. They want to be at range if possible. They were probably coming out backwards as well.

Subject: Re: 40k 9th Editon Tue Jun 23 2020, 14:35

Fly had to be taken down a peg or two. It was far too good a rule from a game mechanics point of view. We have to remember this is a game and abstraction of war, not a simulation.

Sybarite Posts : 344 Join date : 2017-11-16

I disagree. The changes to ground based vehicles were enough. They haven't taken fly down a peg or two, they have knocked fly down and raised non-flying up. It's been too much, and my biggest gripe is that every man and his dog gets benefits to attacking my flying units, which now offer so little in terms of benefit.

Wych Posts : 523 Join date : 2013-08-16

yellabelly wrote:: I disagree. The changes to ground based vehicles were enough. They haven't taken fly down a peg or two, they have knocked fly down and raised non-flying up. It's been too much, and my biggest gripe is that every man and his dog gets benefits to attacking my flying units, which now offer so little in terms of benefit.

yeah i agree completely with your statement in my group everyone uses antifly weapons against me its not even funny, even freaking orks...
The only way they can compensate a little is at least no point increase to our paper gunboats which are supposed to swoop down in an instant, ultrafast and deliver powerful blows to the enemy before disapearing into the dark and stuff...
Well tanks can do all that now without the fear of blowing up if someone sneezes next to them...

im gonna say it again literally every rule we have seen so far sounds like a slap in the face for the eldar race with the exception of harlies maaaaaybe becuse they are more cc oriented and it seems thats the focus of this edition so far

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

Dense is now officially -1 to hit even tho its been leaked

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/23/faction-focus-tyranidsgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-4/

You are -1 to shoot unless you can see all of a models Hull or Base and no drawn LoS is over the terrain.
If you are in/on the terrain with your opponent then you are not penalized.
If you are within 3" of an Obstacle with this rule when you shoot you are not penalized.

Subject: Re: 40k 9th Editon Tue Jun 23 2020, 17:55

Maybe those Anti-fly guns will now be anti-Aircraft guns now. There is still so much we do not know about yet, but I do think and from what I hear from play testers; how armies play will change. It will be a whole new world/game.

Klaivex Posts : 2150 Join date : 2016-02-18

Our Coven units will love the Dense Cover rule. However, we dont have the re-rolls needed to counter it effectively. Wonder what terrain will be getting this rule.

Wych Posts : 744 Join date : 2017-06-03

fisheyes wrote:: Our Coven units will love the Dense Cover rule. However, we dont have the re-rolls needed to counter it effectively. Wonder what terrain will be getting this rule.

I hope none, by default. I'd like to see that as a modifier to be used on themed boards or for signature terrain pieces. For instance ruins wouldn't have it, but their Cities if Death for 9th could make all ruins "dense ruins".

Subject: Re: 40k 9th Editon Tue Jun 23 2020, 21:58

fisheyes wrote:: Our Coven units will love the Dense Cover rule. However, we dont have the re-rolls needed to counter it effectively. Wonder what terrain will be getting this rule.

Well, we know that ruins *don't* have it, as the ruins attributes have been leaked. My guess is that jungles/forests will have it.

Wych Posts : 609 Join date : 2014-02-09

I believe it was mentioned on stream or somewhere else that forests will definitely have it. My initial thought is this is great for Coven units if you’re playing on boards with adequate terrain. Giving PoF Grotesques or Talos -1 to hit is really tasty.

Hekatrix Posts : 1057 Join date : 2012-04-13

DevilDoll wrote:

yellabelly wrote:: I disagree. The changes to ground based vehicles were enough. They haven't taken fly down a peg or two, they have knocked fly down and raised non-flying up. It's been too much, and my biggest gripe is that every man and his dog gets benefits to attacking my flying units, which now offer so little in terms of benefit.

yeah i agree completely with your statement in my group everyone uses antifly weapons against me its not even funny, even freaking orks...
The only way they can compensate a little is at least no point increase to our paper gunboats which are supposed to swoop down in an instant, ultrafast and deliver powerful blows to the enemy before disapearing into the dark and stuff...
Well tanks can do all that now without the fear of blowing up if someone sneezes next to them...

im gonna say it again literally every rule we have seen so far sounds like a slap in the face for the eldar race with the exception of harlies maaaaaybe becuse they are more cc oriented and it seems thats the focus of this edition so far

Lol, really for Harlequins? The second they spoiled that hit mods were capped Harlequins became irrelevant as an army. The army was literally designed to stack hit mods as their primary defense mechanism and paid the price for it.

Every, single, update, I've seen so far has spit in the face of the entire Eldar race. The ONLY benefit I've seen so far is that you can now move and shoot with Heavy on vehicles, so my Wave Serpents and Nightwings love it. Otherwise, there's not a single update here that benefits us. Don't even say terrain rules because those of us playing ITC have already been doing this forever.

Prove me wrong, I dare you.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

You can choose w/e terrain rules you want, they have already said this. They will have recommended setups as well.

Wych Posts : 744 Join date : 2017-06-03

HERO wrote:: Lol, really for Harlequins? The second they spoiled that hit mods were capped Harlequins became irrelevant as an army. The army was literally designed to stack hit mods as their primary defense mechanism and paid the price for it.

Every, single, update, I've seen so far has spit in the face of the entire Eldar race. The ONLY benefit I've seen so far is that you can now move and shoot with Heavy on vehicles, so my Wave Serpents and Nightwings love it. Otherwise, there's not a single update here that benefits us. Don't even say terrain rules because those of us playing ITC have already been doing this forever.

Prove me wrong, I dare you.

I dunno, I feel like Craftworlders are overall winners. The nerf to Fly impacts them but not as much as harlies or DE, but they've gained a lot too. Wave serpents are one of many, many craftworld vehicles or MCs with heavy weapons. Crimson Hunter Exarchs, for instance just went from very good to bonkers good.

A friend of mine had been running CW Eldar with Doomweavers and CH Exarchs, and a Ynnari detachment with 2 Wraithseers, and 3 Wraithlords. Alaitoc is worthless, but that just means everything has FNP 6+ now. Otherwise, every unit in his list but rangers got better.

Archon Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio

We also don't know how modifiers will work, yet they say no stacking but we have not see the RAW yet. We also don't know if many of the -1 to hit rules on many units are getting changed or not.

Hekatrix Posts : 1057 Join date : 2012-04-13

sekac wrote:

HERO wrote:: Lol, really for Harlequins? The second they spoiled that hit mods were capped Harlequins became irrelevant as an army. The army was literally designed to stack hit mods as their primary defense mechanism and paid the price for it.

Every, single, update, I've seen so far has spit in the face of the entire Eldar race. The ONLY benefit I've seen so far is that you can now move and shoot with Heavy on vehicles, so my Wave Serpents and Nightwings love it. Otherwise, there's not a single update here that benefits us. Don't even say terrain rules because those of us playing ITC have already been doing this forever.

Prove me wrong, I dare you.

I dunno, I feel like Craftworlders are overall winners. The nerf to Fly impacts them but not as much as harlies or DE, but they've gained a lot too. Wave serpents are one of many, many craftworld vehicles or MCs with heavy weapons. Crimson Hunter Exarchs, for instance just went from very good to bonkers good.

A friend of mine had been running CW Eldar with Doomweavers and CH Exarchs, and a Ynnari detachment with 2 Wraithseers, and 3 Wraithlords. Alaitoc is worthless, but that just means everything has FNP 6+ now. Otherwise, every unit in his list but rangers got better.

Exarchs were good since w got PA. They were good without PA. They've always been good. Anything that's been good is almost certain to get a points hike. If you're non-Imperial, expect to see heavy points changes.

Ynnari detachment? Well, that's going to change. Free loss on CP there for sure.

So aside from the moving and shooting example with Heavies, which is something EVERYONE got, what did we gain exactly? I see it as watering down Eldar's (and by Eldar, I mean all Eldar) uniqueness.

Wych Posts : 744 Join date : 2017-06-03

HERO wrote:

sekac wrote:

HERO wrote:: Lol, really for Harlequins? The second they spoiled that hit mods were capped Harlequins became irrelevant as an army. The army was literally designed to stack hit mods as their primary defense mechanism and paid the price for it.

Every, single, update, I've seen so far has spit in the face of the entire Eldar race. The ONLY benefit I've seen so far is that you can now move and shoot with Heavy on vehicles, so my Wave Serpents and Nightwings love it. Otherwise, there's not a single update here that benefits us. Don't even say terrain rules because those of us playing ITC have already been doing this forever.

Prove me wrong, I dare you.

I dunno, I feel like Craftworlders are overall winners. The nerf to Fly impacts them but not as much as harlies or DE, but they've gained a lot too. Wave serpents are one of many, many craftworld vehicles or MCs with heavy weapons. Crimson Hunter Exarchs, for instance just went from very good to bonkers good.

A friend of mine had been running CW Eldar with Doomweavers and CH Exarchs, and a Ynnari detachment with 2 Wraithseers, and 3 Wraithlords. Alaitoc is worthless, but that just means everything has FNP 6+ now. Otherwise, every unit in his list but rangers got better.

Exarchs were good since w got PA. They were good without PA. They've always been good. Anything that's been good is almost certain to get a points hike. If you're non-Imperial, expect to see heavy points changes.

Ynnari detachment? Well, that's going to change. Free loss on CP there for sure.

So aside from the moving and shooting example with Heavies, which is something EVERYONE got, what did we gain exactly? I see it as watering down Eldar's (and by Eldar, I mean all Eldar) uniqueness.

You asked for a contrary opinion, I provided it.

Your tone is pretty condescending for arguments that boil down to "we'll probably get a price hike" and "buffs that we get don't count if other factions also benefit from them".

But yeah, I can't think of a single thing the Eldar faction is getting that nobody else is getting and definitely won't get a price hike. So I guess you're right.