40k 9th Editon

The other aspect to the coherency issue is different weapon types within a squad, as well as the squad leader itself. In the case of wyches, for instance we'll as many as 4 models we want to keep alive. We have to be very conscientious of those models being in coherency of each other. If we just pull generic models willy nilly to keep the unique ones alive, we may end up breaking coherency and removing them anyway.

Tightly clump the good ones if you want them to live.

I'm just going to take squads of 5. Between Ld, blasts, and coherency, there are just too many risks to larger than minimum squads.

sweetbacon wrote:

The sad thing about the Eradicators is they would legit be the single best unit in any Aeldari faction and they might not even be in the top three for Marines.  Another outstanding job by GW and the play test team.  

I mean, at this point I'm just shocked by the sheer idiocy of that team. With the new reserve rules, this is going to be a nightmare. Come down automatically in melta range, cya later dude.

And if they’re Salamanders they get +1 to wound on their melta weapons as well. With the new ability to put anything in reserves, Salamanders suddenly look almost as terrifying as pre-nerf Iron Hands as they can just melta and flamer you off the table from reserves now. Meanwhile Aeldari have (sighs) Fire Dragons, Heat Lances, and six inch Fusion Pistols. Awesome. Well done GW.

HERO wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

HERO wrote:

Everyone talking about congo-lines meanwhile I'm thinking that this is ABSOLUTELY HUGE because it affects how units SCREEN.

Ground-based melee just received a huge buff, on top of how you play objectives + cast buffs i.e. Swarmlord.

Kinda and kinda not. Its going to depend on if they are on smaller boards and when Coherency checks are. If it is at the end of the turn and you have 10 guardsmen you can do something like

o.8.o.8.o.8.o

Yes its 1/3 smaller but so is the table and with points going up, harder to multi charge, you might not even need as many screens now.

I've seen some neckbeards try to game this today with dogbone shaped placement and...

O = infantry base
. = relative coherency

O.O
O
O.O
O
O.O
O

Yeah this is what i've been telling people too. but you missed 1 guy

o.8.o.8.o.8.o

amishprn86 wrote:

HERO wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

HERO wrote:

Everyone talking about congo-lines meanwhile I'm thinking that this is ABSOLUTELY HUGE because it affects how units SCREEN.

Ground-based melee just received a huge buff, on top of how you play objectives + cast buffs i.e. Swarmlord.

Kinda and kinda not. Its going to depend on if they are on smaller boards and when Coherency checks are. If it is at the end of the turn and you have 10 guardsmen you can do something like

o.8.o.8.o.8.o

Yes its 1/3 smaller but so is the table and with points going up, harder to multi charge, you might not even need as many screens now.

I've seen some neckbeards try to game this today with dogbone shaped placement and...

O = infantry base
. = relative coherency

O.O
O
O.O
O
O.O
O

Yeah this is what i've been telling people too. but you missed 1 guy

o.8.o.8.o.8.o

I missed that 1 guy purposely, showcasing that if 2 die, you have to pull both from the front or else you'll attrition with 1-1 pull or even 2 from the back.

checking the coherence rule you loose only 4 inch

O.O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O.O

this is perfec legit

sweetbacon wrote:

The sad thing about the Eradicators is they would legit be the single best unit in any Aeldari faction and they might not even be in the top three for Marines.  Another outstanding job by GW and the play test team.  

Every time GW do new SM rules everyone tells them how OP they are and how they can/will be abused. GW and the playtesters all say "Ahh, but you don't have the full picture yet. You don't know what else there is to balance this out". Forward 6 months to a year and GW releases a FAQ/errata to tone down the offending units because they are doing exactly what the community said they would be doing. Makes you wonder what the playtesters are actually doing when they play.

Count Adhemar wrote:

sweetbacon wrote:

The sad thing about the Eradicators is they would legit be the single best unit in any Aeldari faction and they might not even be in the top three for Marines.  Another outstanding job by GW and the play test team.  

Every time GW do new SM rules everyone tells them how OP they are and how they can/will be abused. GW and the playtesters all say "Ahh, but you don't have the full picture yet. You don't know what else there is to balance this out". Forward 6 months to a year and GW releases a FAQ/errata to tone down the offending units because they are doing exactly what the community said they would be doing. Makes you wonder what the playtesters are actually doing when they play.

i hope in a 140 point cost for 3 man..since can easily do 6 shot of multi melta at 18 inc outflanking with new rules..
3 terminator are 120 point so minimum 140 point...or nothing is playtested..

Count Adhemar wrote:

sweetbacon wrote:

The sad thing about the Eradicators is they would legit be the single best unit in any Aeldari faction and they might not even be in the top three for Marines.  Another outstanding job by GW and the play test team.  

Every time GW do new SM rules everyone tells them how OP they are and how they can/will be abused. GW and the playtesters all say "Ahh, but you don't have the full picture yet. You don't know what else there is to balance this out". Forward 6 months to a year and GW releases a FAQ/errata to tone down the offending units because they are doing exactly what the community said they would be doing. Makes you wonder what the playtesters are actually doing when they play.

I don't think this is fair; everything I heard from playtesters around the time of the SM Codex and supplements release was that they had complained to GW about how ridiculous their rules were. They just didn't listen.

There's a failure happening somewhere in the design chain, but it's not the playtesters.

Burnage is right. I know someone who used to work at the GW, and from the inside I can tell you that they really just don't care. Their mission is not creating a fair and well balanced game, because they are not in gaming. They are in modeling, and they only care about selling models. They have to regularly shift the balance, because that makes people buy other models, because the ones they have just became useless. And since most people feel the need to play "the good guys", the overall winner is usually Space Marines.

ferrusmanus wrote:

checking the coherence rule you loose only 4 inch

O.O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O.O

this is perfec legit

Unless you take a single casualty. Then, your chain will self-destruct until there are only three left.

Gelmir wrote:

Burnage is right. I know someone who used to work at the GW, and from the inside I can tell you that they really just don't care. Their mission is not creating a fair and well balanced game, because they are not in gaming. They are in modeling, and they only care about selling models. They have to regularly shift the balance, because that makes people buy other models, because the ones they have just became useless. And since most people feel the need to play "the good guys", the overall winner is usually Space Marines.

I'm reminded of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJFFLvwNLlM

In short, I wonder if the only purpose of playtesters for 40k is so that GW can say that 40k has playtesters.

Guys let's return to the aircraft rules. Planes can go in reserve in the movement phase, so we can hide them from enemy fire. It works well for the bombers, when they drop the bombs and go off the board at the same time. However we lose shooting and that is sad.
But what happens if you fire and fade a plane? Actually there is no obvious answer right now.
You fire all your guns, then use this stratagem and move your unit 7" as if it were Movement phase. Soooo... If you stay at the edge of the board, you can just go in reserve after shooting.
Is it a hole in the rules? Definetly. Will it be fixed? I doubt, it will be soon.
There was an attempt to fix Fire and fade for planes in the ETC FAQ. They said that if you fire and fade your aircraft, it crashes. But this is just a home rule, moreover your plane finishes its move off the board and it is already in reserve and you can't die in reserve, so this FAQ should be FAQed harder.
I understand, that this move could be illegal in the 9th Ed or the stratagem could be fixed or whatever can happen, but speculating is what this whole thread about. So what do you think?

There's an official FAQ that states Fire & Fade kills planes on use (pretty sure it's the Craftworlds one), and I think the same will hold true in 9th even if the plane finishes its move off the board.

Probably does warrant an FAQ though.

GW said the rules for reserve specifically state you can't come on and leave in same turn, but didn't do anything with of you started on the board. So maybe?

The Strange Dark One wrote:

ferrusmanus wrote:

checking the coherence rule you loose only 4 inch

O.O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O
O.O

this is perfec legit

Unless you take a single casualty. Then, your chain will self-destruct until there are only three left.

ah i hanven't check the new rules but i hope the coherence check is taken after movement..but i ignore the new rules indeed

@Strange
You would have 5 models left technically because the rules for having two models within range only pertain to units with 6+ models in them. But, I understand your thinking. You can technically conga line like that, but it will be devastating once you start losing models.

I see the coherency rules causing some conflicts among players and opens up for gaming the system by "those guys." If you are not on top of your opponent and checking on this, it could get out of hand rather quickly.

As far as Eradicators, they will be an instant insert into all Marine lists. SM have lacked reliable AT firepower outside of Smash Captains and Centurions. This fills the gap very nicely. I would hope they are 120+ points as 40pts for a 3W T5 model with a Melta isn't too much, especially with the price hikes. I would not be surprised if they 150 points though. If so, that price is adequate for what they do.

Screening will be more important now. The coherency rules and the Reserves make it very difficult to prevent our units from being protected. It will be interesting for sure to see how we can balance large units and MSU to achieve screening but avoiding coherency and Blasts and everything else the edition throws at us. The good part though is through the Raiding Force, we have the opportunity to build a list that suits us nicely and can fill those gaps we may have.

ferrusmanus wrote:

ah i hanven't check the new rules but i hope the coherence check is taken after movement..but i ignore the new rules indeed

After the Morale Phase. So every player turn, So watch where you pull Casualties from Combat and morale.

here are some marine points rumors from a supposed play-tester. These are the point when he was testing subject to change. For more please go to the article on SpikeyBits.

Intercessor: 20pts
Assault Intercessor : 19pts
Scouts: 14 pts
Tac Marine: 15pts
Incursors: 21pts
Infiltrators: 24pts/ 34 Helix Adept

T Fire Cannon: 85 / 45 gunner (Total130)
Outriders : 45 ea
Invader ATV: 80 with Onslaught cannon, 85 Multimelta
Judicar: 85pts
Bladeguard Vets: 35 tpts
Bladeguard Ancient: 85pts

amishprn86 wrote:

Most likely blasts: PGL, Shredders, Missiles, Stinger pod, Spirit Vortex, and all grenades.

You were right (with exception of Singer Pod).
Our list of blast weapons: Dark Scythe, Razorwing/Voidraven Missiles, Shredder, Spirit Vortex and the Phantasm Grenade Launcher.

I was hoping that flamers Liquifiers and the Spirit Vortex would also get the blast treatment, but I think this is already a good enough boost to some of our weapons.

As for our friends in other Eldar cultures: Blast on the Prism Rifle will be nice and so is Blast on the Haywire Cannon. But apart from that there are no surprises.

List: https://imgur.com/a/1oDiCIB

Haywire Blasters don't get blast, but Haywire Cannons do.

Okay. That's cool.

haywire blasters and liquifiers not getting blast is fine with me. That makes them viable weapons for a talos to use in cc.

I would honestly be surprised if Blasters don't get Blast again. They did in previous editions, right?

Gelmir wrote:

I would honestly be surprised if Blasters don't get Blast again. They did in previous editions, right?

Nope. Blasters have always been single shot weapons - like a more portable dark lance.

Disintegrators used to be blast weapons, in 3rd - 4th edition.

New...

No Manifesting psychic powers after falling back.

If you take a psychic action you may not use any other powers that turn. It can be denied. You can perils.