40k 9th Editon

I am trying to be optimistic about a new edition. But I have been playing DE since 5th, and so far, every edition has removed units from our codex.
A friend of mine says this is nonsense because every faction has lost 10+ units. I seriously have my doubts, but don't know other factions well enough. Is there truth in what he says? Did other factions lose as many HQ or Elite choices as we did?

Dark Eldar have lost the most units of any army. This is definitely true proportionally and I'm 90% sure it's true in absolute numbers as well. Additionally other armies have had new stuff released to replace losses, we haven't. I've been playing DE since their original release and we've only had a small number of new units ever. We've had the Court of the Archon, Planes and Venoms added in 5th. That's about it. We lost more units when those were added than we gained and have lost more since. Still, we can always be hopeful, right?

We definitely have not lost the most units of any army, at least not objectively. Marines had 18 units put into Legends in 8th alone, Craftworlds have lost a huge number over their existence as a faction (e.g. - Exodite, Corsair and Harlequin units were originally part of their Codex).

In contrast I think we've lost about twelve units in total since 3rd, the vast majority of which were characters.

Personally still to this day im baffled as to why we have not gotten a Vect model in 8th (and tbh there were rumors circulating about a Vect model even before that)...
Every other army has their most prominent leaders represented on the tabletop (even if these models are old as f***) but we got robbed of ours and never gotten him back...
Last edition was even ripe fluff wise to get him since he got resurrected as a living muse which was a clear hint that we should be ready to get him back...
Anyway im more than convinced for some reason that we will get retconned and get him now, later than we should have but better late than never...
seriously though if they dont release him even in this edition this might be the final straw for me

I miss all the old characters from the 3.5 codex. The decapitator, Kruellagh, old, mysterious Drazhar (before it was confirmed he was a phoenix lord, and then promptly killed and reincarnated - such a stupid story line, we were fine with it being a badly kept secret, and it made him super bad ass that he still had his original body - but then apparently we arnt allowed to have the incubi be skeletal warrior with pistols in their helmets and giant glaives either, so screw us I guess...)

We lost Kruellagh to 5e, but gained the Baron, the Duke, and Malys. Then we lost everyone except Drazhar and Lilith. And Lilith is now more associated with Ynari than with Dark Eldar.

Sigh. A friend of mine said a while ago that he believed GW would be aiming to simply combine the eldar races, and wanted to for 9th, but Ynari had been such a flop that they are holding off until everyone forgets, making the armies as obsolete as possible in the process. Then they can do a whole new run of unified models. Its not even a rumour, just a train of thought. But I cant help but see something in it.

All armies has lost, but all armies also has gain when they lost, we did not. That is the difference.

Every army has gain multiple units from 6th till now, wee have not gain a single one from 5th/2010.

Got my first game of 9th in against Space Wolves. We skipped secondary scoring for now, because we wanted to focus on fundamentals and weren't overly concerned with the end result.

The no stacking negatives to hit is weird when it comes to opponent's options. There's no downside to firing a heavy weapon on the move, or advancing and firing assault weapons at aircraft. I get not allowing us to stack mods, but removing consequences for tactical decisions is silly.

Our troops are going to hard to use. We just don't have the resilience to squat on visible objectives for an entire turn. The most reliable method seemed to be parking a raider on an objective, and piling the infantry onto the objective when it gets destroyed.

Talos are going to be really good. I haywire blasted a wounded dread to finish it off, then charged the squad behind. Definitely springing for twin liquifiers with dark technomancer. Actually worth the ridiculous cost.

Not sure what to do with kabals, so I might just ignore them for now. A patrol of Drazhar, 5 wyches, and 2 ToS Voidravens to alpha strike vehicles, and 2x DT haemonculus patrols for board control seems like the way to go.

Looking forward to seeing points changes to see if it changes the equation.

I think that a -2/+2 modifier cap would have been reasonable, but -1/+1 is just too limiting.

I am wondering how they're going to get units like Eldar rangers or T'au stealth units to work properly. I suspect that they'll eventually either have to errata the core rules to modify the mod limit, or they'll have to introduce really clunky rules like 'hit rolls of 4 or less during the shooting phase against this unit automatically fail' or somesuch. That is, of course, assuming that GW cares.

Something odd that I noticed when I was looking over the core rules.

Aircraft can never be charged by any model, even other models with FLY. The rules flat-out state that no unit can end any type of move within engagement range of an aircraft.

However...

Models with the FLY keyword *can* enter engagement range of aircraft via pile-in, consolidation, or heroic intervention moves.

That's.. a little odd.

Cerve wrote:

Anyone feel excited for Test of Skill+Blast weapons?

Howso? Do monsters and vehicles count as 6+ models?

Quote :

That cult seems amazing right now. You got the straight +1 to wound monsters/veichles (which I guess we will see more of them now). And both Razor/Void and Wyches got blast weapons. Basically any 5 Wyches squad throw 6 greneades+4Pistols on any mob. This cult alone it's good both vs Hordes, veichles, monsters and elites.

Test of Skill requires the target to have a Wounds characteristic of 10 or higher. That is a major caveat. While i like Test of Skill, especially on poisoned weapons, lots of vehicles like Dreads do not have 10 wounds.

Quote :

Going in melee should be easier now (smaller table, los cut, no overwatch), sounds a Win/Win to me.

This i agree with. However, the change in Morale phase puts us at a severe disadvantage against hordes like Nids and Orks.

krayd wrote:

Something odd that I noticed when I was looking over the core rules.

Aircraft can never be charged by any model, even other models with FLY. The rules flat-out state that no unit can end any type of move within engagement range of an aircraft.

However...

Models with the FLY keyword *can* enter engagement range of aircraft via pile-in, consolidation, or heroic intervention moves.

That's.. a little odd.

you are right as it stands right now aircraft are unchargable...
But on the other hand im not sure that this was what they intended and its not just bad writing

I wouldn't have thought that a Charge counted as a kind of move, so Aircraft can still be charged.

@False Son: you don't get the point. It is a cult that is good all 360' around.
Facing big guys? You have +1 to wound.
Facing mobs? Planes and MSU Wyches got a boost with blast weapons.
Facing Elites? No retreat+ 4++ save
It's a melee army? No Overwatch, smaller table, etc.
It's a fast engaging army>>>Secondary objectives

We need to see the points of course, but as it stand right now Wychcult side got a big buff and ToS seems to me something nearly mandatory if you play any Cult. Damn if they will be cheap even Hellions got major buffs now (first of all Overwatch that's gone+table size and covers).


Anyway I'm curious about the first day Erratas. Because we can consider that all.the 8th FaQs will gone, so a lot of stuff "as written" it's way different from now (Agents of Vect it's 3 CP from.the Codex, and the Wracks spawn from PA works on killing MODELS, not units, for example).
I'm curious about which changes will remain and which will go (I can see Vect at 3CP now that you cannot reroll it anymore).

Burnage wrote:

I wouldn't have thought that a Charge counted as a kind of move, so Aircraft can still be charged.

Well, the rules do refer to charging as making a 'charge move', and, if your interpretation is correct (and charging isn't counted as a move), then that would mean that *everyone* can charge aircraft, and I doubt that to be the case.

DevilDoll wrote:

you are right as it stands right now aircraft are unchargable...
But on the other hand im not sure that this was what they intended and its not just bad writing

I'm hoping that it is intentional (though it probably isn't). Not letting jump units punch jetfighters (while maybe giving certain characters a shot to do so during a very specific window of time as they fly past) might mitigate the extra vulnerability created by the -1 to hit penalty cap somewhat.

Yeah that would be a huge boost if its true.
BTW is it correct that right now I can take a plane and move it near the the edges, shoot and then fire and fade it of the table and next round bring it in from reserves again near an edge and do it all over making it practically invulnerable?
A voidracen for example would be an excellent target for this, move first round drop the bomb leave it near an edge an do the above

DevilDoll wrote:

Yeah that would be a huge boost if its true.
BTW is it correct that right now I can take a plane and move it near the the edges, shoot and then fire and fade it of the table and next round bring it in from reserves again near an edge and do it all over making it practically invulnerable?
A voidracen for example would be an excellent target for this, move  first round drop the bomb leave it near an edge an do the above

Yup, completely valid atm.

krayd wrote:

Burnage wrote:

I wouldn't have thought that a Charge counted as a kind of move, so Aircraft can still be charged.

Well, the rules do refer to charging as making a 'charge move', and, if your interpretation is correct (and charging isn't counted as a move), then that would mean that *everyone* can charge aircraft, and I doubt that to be the case.

As a universal rule, yes, but "cannot be charged by models without FLY" is still listed as an ability on most (all?) aircraft datasheets.

There are just some (like the Stormtalon) that also have the ability to change stance so that they lose benefits like the -1 to hit and inability to be charged by most units, which is why I imagine they've not engrained airborne and supersonic as universal rules for Aircraft.

Burnage wrote:

krayd wrote:

Burnage wrote:

I wouldn't have thought that a Charge counted as a kind of move, so Aircraft can still be charged.

Well, the rules do refer to charging as making a 'charge move', and, if your interpretation is correct (and charging isn't counted as a move), then that would mean that *everyone* can charge aircraft, and I doubt that to be the case.

As a universal rule, yes, but "cannot be charged by models without FLY" is still listed as an ability on most (all?) aircraft datasheets.

There are just some (like the Stormtalon) that also have the ability to change stance so that they lose benefits like the -1 to hit and inability to be charged by most units, which is why I imagine they've not engrained airborne and supersonic as universal rules for Aircraft.

I guess we'll find out if GW intended for the universal aircraft rules to supercede the datasheets when they release the day 1 codex errata.

no relase date announced..uhm
i hope we have early the point cost of all unit or we cant playtest grrr

@ferrusmanus um... release date is the 25th of this month - pre-order starts this coming Saturday.

Glass Battleaxe wrote:

@ferrusmanus um... release date is the 25th of this month - pre-order starts this coming Saturday.

good to see missing it
i see today the  2020 Munitorum Field Manual contain all update..we'll wait for this with hope

DevilDoll wrote:

Skulnbonz wrote:

To me after a quick review...

Vect is useless. I will no longer take the risk unless they drop it back to 3 CP (or maybe even 2 at this point!)  This was a nerf many people did not even see or realize happened.

or they can just remove the roll required to activate it and make it automatic. For 4 cp it would be reasonable, otherwise it is stupidly risky i agree...
Seriously i dont know which god i angered so much that for me its almost always a 5cp stratagem becasue more than half the times i have to reroll that freaking ace i just rolled for it lol

I managed to double roll 1's for Vect, twice. At the London Grand Tournament......
If ever there was a weekend to not suffer a 1 in 36 chance fail, twice over, to the cost of 10 CP, that was it!

HERO wrote:

DevilDoll wrote:

Yeah that would be a huge boost if its true.
BTW is it correct that right now I can take a plane and move it near the the edges, shoot and then fire and fade it of the table and next round bring it in from reserves again near an edge and do it all over making it practically invulnerable?
A voidracen for example would be an excellent target for this, move  first round drop the bomb leave it near an edge an do the above

Yup, completely valid atm.

Wait for the day one Codex F.A.Q's they are aware of these interactions and have already fixed them. They mentioned Fire and Fade with aircraft specifically on one of the Daily shows. You will not be allowed to do that.

After watching a few batreps, i'm thinking that Wyches really will have a new lease on life. The ability of MSU Wyches to contest units without worrying about Overwatch, while still being Troops is handy. My assumption is that Troops will still have their faction stamped ObSec.

Overall, i'm happy that our Troops function well at 10 strong, which is the maximum i would consider taking in any Kabalite or Wych unit with the Blast weapon changes.

The leaked changes also really have me rethinking how to use Raiders. I think there's real potential in locking up other thanks and exchanging shots in combat.