Considering that there were playtesters that have tested the 9th for almost 10 months, it makes me laugh watching a lot of gamers complain the work in...30 minutes, maybe? I think I will talk about the game after 1 month of tests almost.
And I'm going to spam Wyches because the girls seems pretty strong to me. +3 points in sight of the general upgrade seems logic to me.
harlokin Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 142 Join date : 2013-07-24 Location : London
Considering that there were playtesters that have tested the 9th for almost 10 months, it makes me laugh watching a lot of gamers complain the work in...30 minutes, maybe? I think I will talk about the game after 1 month of tests almost.
And I'm going to spam Wyches because the girls seems pretty strong to me. +3 points in sight of the general upgrade seems logic to me.
You do know that playtesters started at different times, and that GW was under no obligation to actually listen to feedback?
Does is make sense that a Venom Blade and a Huskblade cost the same points? Is it fine that Venoms cost more than Starweavers, which are better in every way? Is it ok that Kabalites now cost the same as Tempestus Scions (who have better armour, weapons, and free deepstrike)? Do we really need to wait a month to come to the conclusion that Drukhari have been screwed?
What upgrade do you imagine that Wyches got, other than being less badly hit by the rules changes? They are now only two points less than Harlequins.
Considering that there were playtesters that have tested the 9th for almost 10 months, it makes me laugh watching a lot of gamers complain the work in...30 minutes, maybe? I think I will talk about the game after 1 month of tests almost.
There are some really questionable decisions, like those listed. But, i'm willing to accept for the time being that 9th ed when played with the new terrain rules and missions will have its own internal consistency that eludes us at present.
As for us, i get this weird vibe that we are being pushed to take anything but bare minimum Troops. Weird choice, all things considered.
Considering that there were playtesters that have tested the 9th for almost 10 months, it makes me laugh watching a lot of gamers complain the work in...30 minutes, maybe? I think I will talk about the game after 1 month of tests almost.
And I'm going to spam Wyches because the girls seems pretty strong to me. +3 points in sight of the general upgrade seems logic to me.
You do know that playtesters started at different times, and that GW was under no obligation to actually listen to feedback?
Does is make sense that a Venom Blade and a Huskblade cost the same points? Is it fine that Venoms cost more than Starweavers, which are better in every way? Is it ok that Kabalites now cost the same as Tempestus Scions (who have better armour, weapons, and free deepstrike)? Do we really need to wait a month to come to the conclusion that Drukhari have been screwed?
What upgrade do you imagine that Wyches got, other than being less badly hit by the rules changes? They are now only two points less than Harlequins.
The changes are definitively lazy. At least there is some solace in the fact that GW applied a generic formula to do that instead of picking us out and saying "You! You get nerfed into the ground!"
Aren't clowns 14 ppm and wyches 10 ppm now? In all seriousness, I think the changes to core rules (Overwatch, Cover, Missions) and if other factions will change their armies in light of 9th edition will obviously effect our army building/tactics too.
Something I found interesting is that when I'm list building, my list comes out to almost exactly 1 Power Level = 20 points. Does that hold true for you all as well? If so, at least they fixed PL
Aren't clowns 14 ppm and wyches 10 ppm now? In all seriousness, I think the changes to core rules (Overwatch, Cover, Missions) and if other factions will change their armies in light of 9th edition will obviously effect our army building/tactics too.
Wyches are 11 ppm from what i've seen.
The change i'm having a hard time with, the one i haven't seen anyone mention is that Meltaguns, Combi-Meltas, Plasmaguns and Combi-Plasmas are all 10 each. That may not seem like a big deal in light of the ppm increases, but especially in CSM, in a vehicle and monster heavy meta is going to make itself known, fast.
Considering that there were playtesters that have tested the 9th for almost 10 months, it makes me laugh watching a lot of gamers complain the work in...30 minutes, maybe? I think I will talk about the game after 1 month of tests almost.
And I'm going to spam Wyches because the girls seems pretty strong to me. +3 points in sight of the general upgrade seems logic to me.
You do know that playtesters started at different times, and that GW was under no obligation to actually listen to feedback?
Does is make sense that a Venom Blade and a Huskblade cost the same points? Is it fine that Venoms cost more than Starweavers, which are better in every way? Is it ok that Kabalites now cost the same as Tempestus Scions (who have better armour, weapons, and free deepstrike)? Do we really need to wait a month to come to the conclusion that Drukhari have been screwed?
What upgrade do you imagine that Wyches got, other than being less badly hit by the rules changes? They are now only two points less than Harlequins.
Told you guys they're green as grass when it comes to game balance
Also, you're 100% correct that they are very.. how do you say.. selective with feedback.
Board size is smaller, blos are huge now, you have 1 cover every 12"x12" of the board, no OW anymore. These alone makes the difference between a Player and a Wych way more thinner than before. When you have so much protection against fire, having 4++ on shooting doesen't mean so much, while 4++ in melee is the same for both. But against Wyches you don't have a granted fall.back. Honestly I prefer the ladies more.than players at themselves. Players are way more expensive both in points (upgrades) AND CPs (because a clown with no stratagems is simply useless).
Thats just an example. You're not considering the entire game mechanics (which in 9th are way different than 8th). Don't just compare stats and numbers, there's more inside this game.
And Drukhari are actually amazing in 9th, if you consider how it will be played.
Gelmir Sybarite
Posts : 344 Join date : 2018-01-06 Location : near Rotterdam
And Drukhari are actually amazing in 9th, if you consider how it will be played.
I do get what you are saying, and there are definitely competitive units in our codex, like for example the Talos. But we are basically forced to play a very select number of models, and all competitive lists will be pretty much the same. A lot of units are just not worth playing anymore. Who is still going for a Kabal battalion with 3 units of Kabalites? You'll be punished for that in every way imaginable. Including CP. The fun part of this game is supposed to be that everyone can make an entirely unique army. But what options do we actually have to make a unique army the way rules seem to go now?
harlokin Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 142 Join date : 2013-07-24 Location : London
I agree completely. It is not as if we have a particularly large number of units to start with, so taking a hit on more than a handful really impacts variety in our lists.
I'm free to field Taloi and Wracks, but the playstyle I enjoyed was the highly mobile glass cannon, which is supposed to be what Drukahri are all about....the points hikes have determined that this now badwrongfun.
Last edited by harlokin on Wed Jul 15 2020, 12:52; edited 1 time in total
The changes are definitively lazy. At least there is some solace in the fact that GW applied a generic formula to do that instead of picking us out and saying "You! You get nerfed into the ground!"
You say that but I see zero evidence of any "formula" being applied.
What formula leads to Kabalites getting a 50% increase in cost but Guardsman only getting a 25% increase in cost?
What formula leads to Splinter Cannons going up in cost by 50%?
What formula leads to a Twin Splinter Cannon Venom costing more than a Starweaver, despite the fact that the Starweaver completely outclasses the Venom?
What formula leads to Agonisers costing the exact same as Electrocorrosive Whips, in spite of the fact that the latter is objectively better?
etc.
And it's not just Dark Eldar either (copied from a post on dakkadakka, because I don't play Eldar):
Quote :
And it's clear that it wasn't just our army that was botched:
Here's a bit of rules comedy for you all today:
Here are the eldar units that received the smallest % point increases overall.
INFANTRTY/BIKES: Shining Spears, Dark Reapers, Wraithguard w/wraithcannons
Ok, so what were the units GW thought were the MOST IMPORTANT TO NERF (again, I'm including wargear in here, don't hit me with this 'they just made the weapons cost less')
CHARACTERS: Prince Yriel, Autarch on foot, Warlock conclave on foot
VEHICLES: Wraithlord, Fire Prism, Nightspinner
INFANTRY: Guardians and Guardian Heavy Weapon Platform, Striking Scorpions, Swooping Hawks
Good fething gak, GW! Everything that anybody used in a fething tournament you decided to increase WAY WAY LESS than units nobody fething uses! Literally the only thing that ever saw tournament play in eldar lists that you managed to nerf is the Nightspinner, and the only units that got relatively buffed that WEREN'T competitive standbys is wraithguard and arguably vypers. What are you doing? Dark eldar is like this too, to an arguably lesser extent but still. What's up at the top of the list for lightest nerfs? Why it's the Razorwing Jetfighter and the Ravager, the units every drukhkari list spammed the hell out of last edition! What do we see down near the worst nerfed category? Oh look, it's the Cronos, Wyches, Hellions and Reavers, the worst units in Codex Drukhari!
If you want examples from a non-Eldar army, how about the fact that a Plasmagun, Meltagun, Flamer and Grenade Launcher now all cost the same points on a guardsman, despite Plasma being better than the others in the vast majority of cases. Towards the end of 8th, Grenade Launchers were finally cheap enough relative to the other weapons that they started to see play. But no, let's just have everyone go back to using plasma all the time.
I'd suggest that GW's "formula" was a dart-board, but I don't think even randomly generating points would leave them this much out of sync with reality.
Yeah I'm not sure I understand the claim that there are drawbacks to Talos now. They barely went up in price (especially if you switch out the old standby of Haywire for a Stinger Pod) and they've gained some benefits like blast and firing in combat.
They seem like probably our biggest winner overall.
Subsanity Sybarite
Posts : 277 Join date : 2016-10-13 Location : Tulsa, OK
May I ask why you think Talos won't be compedative in 9th?
I think they are competitive in 9th, I'm not saying that they don't. But I feel that's will be only the beginning. The table now is full of blos and scenery, and you can't fly upon stuff anymore while charging. Plus, some scenery are difficult to move throught now if you're not Infantry. So where in 8th Talos were undercosted and super mobile because of FLY, now the table where they will move is changed. I can see them more like a wall than anything else. Plus, I think there will be a rush onto Monsters and Veichles. So there will be a rush onto anti-Tanks/anti-Monsters. So I guess (but its just a guess) Taloi will become like a public enemy n1.
I can see a lot of them on the first month, but just because they're the easiest way to play DE. It always been, thanks PoF. We will see.
But yeah, Talos ARE competitive in 9th, no doubt on that. Its more about learning playing around them (expecially using scenery well, something that will happen after a month a guess).
Not targeting you specifically, but in general, can we take a step back here on all the "too expensive".
Before we call anything too expensive, let's talk about the meta, the missions and what expensive means because it's all relative at the moment.
If you're paying 170 for 12W T6 with 3+/5++, 6 S5 AP-3 2D weapons that hit on 3s, with missiles, and with twin splinters, minus kabal/wych/custom abilities, what are you comparing this to?
That's the conversation I want to have, because compared to other options are out there, I think we are IN-LINE of what's to be expected in the new edition.
This means that its not going to be your overpriced crap vs. everyone elses' super-discounted things. You're both going to be playing with price-hiked units that decreases the scale of the game, which is less guns/boots on table for everyone.
Not targeting you specifically, but in general, can we take a step back here on all the "too expensive".
Before we call anything too expensive, let's talk about the meta, the missions and what expensive means because it's all relative at the moment.
If you're paying 170 for 12W T6 with 3+/5++, 6 S5 AP-3 2D weapons that hit on 3s, with missiles, and with twin splinters, minus kabal/wych/custom abilities, what are you comparing this to?
That's the conversation I want to have, because compared to other options are out there, I think we are IN-LINE of what's to be expected in the new edition.
This means that its not going to be your overpriced crap vs. everyone elses' super-discounted things. You're both going to be playing with price-hiked units that decreases the scale of the game, which is less guns/boots on table for everyone.
THIS. People don't realize that the unit A in 8th edition is different from the unit A in 9th edition.
We will talk about points after almost one month of gameplay. Everything is changed.
krayd Hekatrix
Posts : 1343 Join date : 2011-10-03 Location : Richmond, VA
I mean. You can compare the points increase that the Razorwing received compared to other Fliers:
Hemlock: 200 -> 230 (15% increase) Crimson Hunter Exarch with Starcannons: 176 -> 200 (13% increase) Razorwing with Disintegrators: 145 -> 170 (17% increase) Stormhawk Interceptor with 2 Assault Cannons, Skyhammer, 2 Heavy Bolters: 169 -> 195 (15% increase)
So of these four (chosen because they were honestly the first that came to mind), the Razorwing gets the highest percentage increase and doesn't benefit from the Heavy weapon change in the same way that the CHE or Stormhawk do. Relatively, it looks like the Razorwing has received a nerf, particularly compared to the CHE.
I'm not in extreme pessimism mode but I think there's a good reason why the competitive-wide consensus has quickly seemed to become that DE are one of the factions that have been hit hardest by these changes.
i have beed using DL on my razorwings for a while now and i was perfectly happy with them. The problem is that they were part of a Test of Skill Airwing, now that we are basically forced in using 3 patrols, of which none is going to be Cult for me, i dont think ill be using them with DL they are way to unpredictable imo...
Subject: Re: 40k 9th Editon 
Tue Jul 14 2020, 22:25
