Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

The Strange Dark One wrote:

harlokin wrote:

The Strange Dark One wrote:

The Ynnari have been present in the lore long before they were intrudced as a faction. The Haemonculus supplement mentions the "Phoenex" explicitly. And from a narrative perspective it makes sense to have an active Eldar God which could be a double-edged sword (and move the narrative forward). Sure, it's nice to have a God of Death on your side that can kick some Chaos God ass, but then again... it's a God of death, how much can you really trust it?

The narrative of 40k works best when it has elements of tragedy and impending doom. In theory, the Ynnari would be a perfect fit. But it's evident that GW lost all motivation to do such things and opted to have a more "hero-hammer" narrative instead.

I for one love the idea of the Ynnari squatting my faction of choice.

How 'lucky' they were mentioned in the fluff produced by GW to justify their subsequent inclusion.

No, 40k works best when it is a setting, not an ongoing narrative.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite certain that Ynnead has been a part of the Eldar mythology for a much longer time.

Setting, Narrative, whatever. Without tragedy and impending doom, 40k is hardly more than Sci-Fi with swords. But you can't beat a dead horse and dwell on the same tropes forever as it loses all meaning eventually.

I'm almost certain Ynnead dates back to either 2nd or 3rd edition. The idea that there are groups of Eldar dedicated to it has a very long history.

Ynnead is certainly older fluff, GW has a lot of old stuff to draw upon, most of which is never used.

I'm referring to the newer books, which were setting up the introduction of the Ynnari.

Burnage wrote:

The Strange Dark One wrote:

harlokin wrote:

The Strange Dark One wrote:

The Ynnari have been present in the lore long before they were intrudced as a faction. The Haemonculus supplement mentions the "Phoenex" explicitly. And from a narrative perspective it makes sense to have an active Eldar God which could be a double-edged sword (and move the narrative forward). Sure, it's nice to have a God of Death on your side that can kick some Chaos God ass, but then again... it's a God of death, how much can you really trust it?

The narrative of 40k works best when it has elements of tragedy and impending doom. In theory, the Ynnari would be a perfect fit. But it's evident that GW lost all motivation to do such things and opted to have a more "hero-hammer" narrative instead.

I for one love the idea of the Ynnari squatting my faction of choice.

How 'lucky' they were mentioned in the fluff produced by GW to justify their subsequent inclusion.

No, 40k works best when it is a setting, not an ongoing narrative.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite certain that Ynnead has been a part of the Eldar mythology for a much longer time.

Setting, Narrative, whatever. Without tragedy and impending doom, 40k is hardly more than Sci-Fi with swords. But you can't beat a dead horse and dwell on the same tropes forever as it loses all meaning eventually.

I'm almost certain Ynnead dates back to either 2nd or 3rd edition. The idea that there are groups of Eldar dedicated to it has a very long history.

Yes but the modern Ynnari don't fit the old lore that good. I mean the Phoenex mentioned at the top of the quotes is an obviously example, a haemonculi brotherhood of Ynnead followers allied with entire troupes of Harlequins and the spiritual leaders of craftworlds. How do they fit with the new Ynnari, Coven cannot be Ynnari? Especially as you would actually need Haemonculi to prepare new bodies for the souls, once Slaanesh is starved. What are the Ynnari exactly planning, once they have collected all Aeldari souls? Do they just want Ynnead to feed on them instead of Slaanesh, go the Necron way or let the souls float in the warp for other daemons to take? Before I understood what Ynnead followers thought, with the Ynnari I am not sure they are thinking at all or maybe I missed a major part of their lore, I admit I have not read any of their books.

Another part of me is wondering, what actually would happen if GW ever decided all Aeldari would become Ynnari. Would a galaxywide mass suicide start and afterwards all Aeldari and/or Slaanesh models are removed from the game? I am not sure how Ynnari as the only Aeldari could lead to a narrative, that GW wants to take. There must be always at least a second Aeldari faction or GW is in dire need of weird fluff writing, if they don't want to drop a big part of their products. For 40k they cannot just create a cities of the emperor codex and drop all still sold Aeldari kits in there without any explanation why they are alive even though lore wise there shouldn't be any.^^

I just hate the aesthetics of it all. DE have a great look and Eldar have theirs. I don’t like the aesthetics of them mixed together on the tabletop.

It’s all so very lazy as well.

The Ynnead lore is indeed old, and I like the idea of it a lot.
I was kind of excited when the ynnari showed up! (But , admittedly a lot of that has to do with the fact that, as a Drukhari player and fan I was (still am) starved for models and lore-attention...)
And they are great models!
But I just... don’t find them interesting, either as characters or as a faction.
And it kind of makes me think about how happy I would have been if the dark eldar had gotten the same amount of attention instead (not that the ynnari got very much... but still). How much more invested I had been in the ”main story” if it had been drukhari that helped guilliman return to life, or in any other way take part in the events unfolding for other factions outside our own..

I am pretty curious to see how we figure in to the events in the upcoming charadon book. I am hoping for something fun and/or meaningful! (But my expectation is that it will just be some raiding and mischief. Hopefully it will at least be fun mischief! =) )

Burnage wrote:

Cerve wrote:

So...will we get something tomorrow?

Probably not. I think the most likely timeline now is preorder on the 27th of Feb for full release on the 6th of March, which means we'll see our rules preview week starting next Sunday.

An article about Necron Flayed Ones just went up on the warhammer community website, and mentions that the kill team expansion goes up on preorder the 27th.

This could mean a shared preorder date for both drukhari and kill team, but with the early-year-covid update mentioning that 40k would see 1 codex or expansion per month for the first three months of the year, I'm thinking this is the "or expansion"-part to the Death Guard and Dark Angels codexes-part of that mention.

We'll probably know for sure on sunday evening (when the "next week's preorders"-article goes up).

Not implausible at all that we'll see the Kill Team box released alongside our book, considering just how packed the actual release days have been recently. Saturday saw two different Battletomes and a huge pile of models released for AoS, after all.

True!

I’m mainly basing my prediction on their earlier statement of what the schedule would look like. (Which I might’ve misinterpreted, or it might have changed or whathaveyou)

Any time someone says Splinter cannons for taking down vehicles the 4th edition player in me dies a little. Let me say this, Splinter cannons are not for taking down vehicles. I dont care what happened in 8th, splinter cannons are for taking down troops. (if you played in 4th they are actually useless).

the Dark Eldar are Generalists in every sense of the word and having ZERO specialists is part of what makes them so difficult to play. That and the fact that they die to a hard sneeze.

If you ever played them in dawn of war they used to say speed, terror, and dark lances are our weapons. I won every single game in 4th I played against codex marines because I shot them with 20 lances a turn at a time when the average marine army consisted of 4 or 5 las/plaz squads in rhinos and a few HQs on bikes. (it was the orlando meta)

The problem with DE is that since 4th our army really hasnt changed (even with 5th edition changes) while the number of shots coming across the table has gone up 5-6 times (sometimes more) and the viability of CC armies has gone down by removing consolidation into other units.

I look forward to seeing a real change. GW finally made a glass cannon army in the harlequins. Hopefully the DE get a proper treatment. You dont have to worry about getting mowed down if you can kill the enemy EFFECTIVELY.

I truthfully see us as a mounted force. Cabalites dont get out of our raiders until the raider gets shot down or everyone is dead and we are taking slaves. I want to see that happen. I want to see splinter racks come back and our vehicles should have some sort of stable weapon platform.

Wyches need to be able to assault out of raiders and a 12 inch guaranteed charge drug (the only drug that mattered in 4th) would go a long way in helping this. Wyches/beasts should tie up CC units and Killy CC Characters or Incubi do most of the killing. But most of all our CC characters need to be able to consolidate into other units dumb enough to be in range.

JMO.

Oh, I've thought of something else, actually - if we're talking about wildest dreams, I'd like our codex to take a few pages from the 7th edition Corsair book.

I loved that book.

I loved the customisation of the HQs - especially the Corsair Prince. In addition to a *ton* of wargear options, you also got to pick one of about 10 traits, with the option to buy a lesser version for each of the other heroes in your army. e.g. you could give him FNP and IWND and then you'd get the option to buy FNP for every other HQ in your army at something like 10pts apiece.

In terms of the units, you had Balestrike Bands - which were like Scourges but functional. Every squad member could take a Dark Lance (or other heavy weapon), so no more Sergeant-First-To-Die. What's more, the squad can take Jet Packs, allowing them to move and still fire their heavy weapons without penalty and also to JSJ.

Hell, *every* Corsair infantry unit could take a Jet Pack. Every. Single. One. So if you wanted, you could skip transports altogether and still have an incredible mobile army. Compare that to Dark Eldar, where removing transports leaves everything outside of our Fast Attack slots barely better than Imperial Guard, and significantly worse than Tallarn Imperial Guard.

Finally, in addition to the wargear-based movement, Corsairs also had a ton of other mobility options. Squads that fired at units within 12" could them jump away afterwards. Their psychic table was packed with movement and teleportation abilities.

Put simply, on the table they really felt like a fast, mobile, agile army. That's exactly what I want Dark Eldar to feel like.


EDIT: Just realised I posted this in the wrong thread. Bugger.

havik110 wrote:

the viability of CC armies has gone down by removing consolidation into other units.  

.

Maybe something is lost in translation in your post. But CC units can still consolidate into other units in 9th edition as far as I know.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning.

I would also think overwatch now costing CP makes melee armies better as well.

Melee armies are again a thing. Charging units on objectives has a lot of utility nowadays. Also, it can be combined with Engage On All Fronts, and counters shooty armies pretty well.

If Kabalites will have the potential to go up in close combat potential, I will be grateful. While just one extra attack won't do the trick, if the proper Power from Pain, Obsession and combat weapons (Kabalite blades?) are added into the equation, then we will be able to use Kabalites as well rounded troops, able to shoot down monsters and flay lightly armoured units in close combat.

Silverglade wrote:

havik110 wrote:

the viability of CC armies has gone down by removing consolidation into other units.  

.

Maybe something is lost in translation in your post.  But CC units can still consolidate into other units in 9th edition as far as I know.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning.

In 4th, if you successfully consolidated into an enemy, you fought another round of CC.

It was stupid and broken and it's very good for the game that it's no longer a thing.

sekac wrote:

Silverglade wrote:

havik110 wrote:

the viability of CC armies has gone down by removing consolidation into other units.  

.

Maybe something is lost in translation in your post.  But CC units can still consolidate into other units in 9th edition as far as I know.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning.

In 4th, if you successfully consolidated into an enemy, you fought another round of CC.

It was stupid and broken and it's very good for the game that it's no longer a thing.

Ah. I see. I didn't play in 4th, so didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification!

sekac wrote:

Silverglade wrote:

havik110 wrote:

the viability of CC armies has gone down by removing consolidation into other units.  

.

Maybe something is lost in translation in your post.  But CC units can still consolidate into other units in 9th edition as far as I know.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning.

In 4th, if you successfully consolidated into an enemy, you fought another round of CC.

It was stupid and broken and it's very good for the game that it's no longer a thing.

Nope. That was 3rd edition... and was removed for 3.5. After that, consolidation into enemy units after the CC round didn't come back into the game in any form until 8th edition

sekac wrote:

Silverglade wrote:

havik110 wrote:

the viability of CC armies has gone down by removing consolidation into other units.  

.

Maybe something is lost in translation in your post.  But CC units can still consolidate into other units in 9th edition as far as I know.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your meaning.

In 4th, if you successfully consolidated into an enemy, you fought another round of CC.

It was stupid and broken and it's very good for the game that it's no longer a thing.

You did not fight again. If you wiped out a unit or broke a unit your could move another 6 inches and if another unit was there you could lock them into CC and prevent them or other units from shooting the unit that just won combat. It was only broken if you didnt understand it and had units sitting on top of each other as a shooting army.

Close combat kabalites sounds pretty lackluster. If their goal is to make the entire faction more fighty, then... I guess?

If we take the perspective that everything DE is going to be better at close-combat and say that the kabalite is going to be the worst at it, then maybe this means a healthy improvement across the board (Please buff wyches!). It definitely feels like a dramatic shift from 8th (but so is the mission style).

Unless they add an elite version to Cults, Wyches should be the apex of combat troops in their own style. 4++ and FnP plus numbers and a ton of high WS S3 attacks makes them quite good already, I cannot really complain that much right now. But I woukd love to have a cool stratagem that represents the climax of a massacre in the arenas, or an artistic murdering choreography akin to each Cult.

Also, they should make Succubi more killy without the need of a specific relic from a specific Cult.

Eldur wrote:

Unless they add an elite version to Cults, Wyches should be the apex of combat troops in their own style. 4++ and FnP plus numbers and a ton of high WS S3 attacks makes them quite good already, I cannot really complain that much right now. But I woukd love to have a cool stratagem that represents the climax of a massacre in the arenas, or an artistic murdering choreography akin to each Cult.

Also, they should make Succubi more killy without the need of a specific relic from a specific Cult.

I would love to see the Drugs as something activable, and stronger than now.
Something like: "At the beginning of the melee phase you can use the drugs. You get +1 to S, T and A. At the end of the combat phase roll a die for any model in the unit: for every 1s the unit suffer 1 MW".
The buff is just an example. More than just a buff I would prefer some active rule, with an huge buff and an huge drawback. I like the "sacrifice yourself for huge damage" mechanics, and it would work well for a drug.

Cerve wrote:

I would love to see the Drugs as something activable, and stronger than now.
Something like: "At the beginning of the melee phase you can use the drugs. You get +1 to S, T and A. At the end of the combat phase roll a die for any model in the unit: for every 1s the unit suffer 1 MW".
The buff is just an example. More than just a buff I would prefer some active rule, with an huge buff and an huge drawback. I like the "sacrifice yourself for huge damage" mechanics, and it would work well for a drug.

A Stratagem that lets you change your drugs during the battle wouldn't be so crazy. And if they changed the overdose stratagem, letting you add a different drug for a turn (as if no one was mixing drugs in real life), then it would be really better and not so different from what you proposed.

I would LOVE if our new codex really represented Drukhari as a bunch of super drug addicts, assassins, and body-augmented real-space raiders in search for extreme fun.

Eldur wrote:

Cerve wrote:

I would love to see the Drugs as something activable, and stronger than  now.
Something like: "At the beginning of the melee phase you can use the drugs. You get +1 to S, T and A. At the end of the combat phase roll a die for any model in the unit: for every 1s the unit suffer 1 MW".
The buff is just an example. More than just a buff I would prefer some active rule, with an huge buff and an huge drawback. I like the "sacrifice yourself for huge damage" mechanics, and it would work well for a drug.

A Stratagem that lets you change your drugs during the battle wouldn't be so crazy. And if they changed the overdose stratagem, letting you add a different drug for a turn (as if no one was mixing drugs in real life), then it would be really better and not so different from what you proposed.

I would LOVE if our new codex really represented Drukhari as a bunch of super drug addicts, assassins, and body-augmented real-space raiders in search for extreme fun.

Yeah, but I was thinking about a single drug, not the choice. Just 1 drug that you choose when to "inject" it. So it will gives you a lot of buffs, but it will do casualties to your squad.
Like the drugs in DoW (pc game), that boost you but drain your life every second.

Eldur wrote:

Unless they add an elite version to Cults, Wyches should be the apex of combat troops in their own style. 4++ and FnP plus numbers and a ton of high WS S3 attacks makes them quite good already, I cannot really complain that much right now. But I woukd love to have a cool stratagem that represents the climax of a massacre in the arenas, or an artistic murdering choreography akin to each Cult.

Also, they should  make Succubi more killy without the need of a specific relic from a specific Cult.

I hate FNP on wyches. I played in 4th. There is a reason consolidate needs to come back. If they get caught in the open they are supposed to die. Make them killier or make them there to hold people in combat until the incubi get there. Unless you are playing a 90 wych, wych cult the wyches have never done the damage.

Personally Id rather see the old 3.5 wych weapons come back. make the units we are in combat with lose and attack and drop their Weapon skill by 1 (or subtract 1 from their hit dice)

If you want killy wyches, bring back blood brides and let them be like every Marine elite squad ever and let us take a squad of nothing but poison weapons or agonizers. If every marine veteran squad can do it WHY CANT WE?

JMO

Cerve wrote:

Eldur wrote:

Unless they add an elite version to Cults, Wyches should be the apex of combat troops in their own style. 4++ and FnP plus numbers and a ton of high WS S3 attacks makes them quite good already, I cannot really complain that much right now. But I woukd love to have a cool stratagem that represents the climax of a massacre in the arenas, or an artistic murdering choreography akin to each Cult.

Also, they should  make Succubi more killy without the need of a specific relic from a specific Cult.

I would love to see the Drugs as something activable, and stronger than  now.
Something like: "At the beginning of the melee phase you can use the drugs. You get +1 to S, T and A. At the end of the combat phase roll a die for any model in the unit: for every 1s the unit suffer 1 MW".
The buff is just an example. More than just a buff I would prefer some active rule, with an huge buff and an huge drawback. I like the "sacrifice yourself for huge damage" mechanics, and it would work well for a drug.

3.5 edition Drug dispenser. You tan take as many as you want but after 1 you have to roll as many dice as you take drugs. If you roll doubles you take a wound, triples you die outright. so being able to select your drug based on what you need to do would be huge. Getting a 12 inch charge, only take 1. The drug I rolled every GD time in 4th was the good old #4, always strike 1st (for i6 it sucks)but now, having your wyches go 1st even if you are charged would be big.

Drugs giving a stronger boost in exchange for potentially wounding the user whenever they're injected would be fun.

I'm really not a fan of the current system. Having near enough every model with a different drug is just something I find a pain to remember, especially when half of them are so niche as to hardly be worth bothering with. It just seems pointlessly finickity.