Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

Too salty man. Just too salty.

Find the positives and work with them. Don’t focus on the negatives and let them hold you back.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Find the positives and work with them. Don’t focus on the negatives and let them hold you back.

What if the ever-accumulating negatives mean the army is no longer fun?

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

What’s giving me hope that there are still special rules to the Wyche weapons is that the razor flail baseline stats are the same as the Hek blades. Which we know means there is something additional to the razor flail.

So let’s say they all keep their original rules where almost all the wyche weapons give an extra attack and the razor flail gives an extra 3. That means a 10 strong wyche squad would get base 3 attacks +1 from their weapons +1 from drugs. That would kick out 54 attacks and let’s say you had one of each gladiator weapon in the squad. That unit on average kills a 5 man Primaris unit in CC. That’s without the potential for wyche cult rules.

The reason that’s good is that when you need to take an objective off of a player by deleting the unit and then holding the objective then Wyches can do that. I know that I’m guessing at the extra attack from the weapons but I do hope I’m right on that. This unit kills 17 guardsmen in CC as well.

I personally think this discussion is too early especially for Wyches i think it is impossible to say how good they will be without knowing what happens with drugs.
Sorry that I picked your comment, could be many other. Your whole calculations is based on wishing and guessing. You wish that drugs still work as before, that the weapons give the same additional attacks and such. I personally can not even see why it seems so unlikely that GW just moved the additional attack to the unit stat line. Did they not exactly do this with the Deathguard and Hateful Assault?

Soulless Samurai wrote:

What if the ever-accumulating negatives mean the army is no longer fun?

Hey man, I am seriously doubting that the Codex will bring the improvements we want, too. And I tend to be skeptical and cynical as well, but even I think you're exaggerating and just doubling down on the salt and anger before much has been revealed. Yes, there are signs of disappointing changes, but thus far we do not know all that much.
And I doubt they'll stop being fun to play, even if the Codex is disappointing. Let's wait and see.

Koldan wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

What’s giving me hope that there are still special rules to the Wyche weapons is that the razor flail baseline stats are the same as the Hek blades. Which we know means there is something additional to the razor flail.

So let’s say they all keep their original rules where almost all the wyche weapons give an extra attack and the razor flail gives an extra 3. That means a 10 strong wyche squad would get base 3 attacks +1 from their weapons +1 from drugs. That would kick out 54 attacks and let’s say you had one of each gladiator weapon in the squad. That unit on average kills a 5 man Primaris unit in CC. That’s without the potential for wyche cult rules.

The reason that’s good is that when you need to take an objective off of a player by deleting the unit and then holding the objective then Wyches can do that. I know that I’m guessing at the extra attack from the weapons but I do hope I’m right on that. This unit kills 17 guardsmen in CC as well.

I personally think this discussion is too early especially for Wyches i think it is impossible to say how good they will be without knowing what happens with drugs.
Sorry that I picked your comment, could be many other. Your whole calculations is based on wishing and guessing. You wish that drugs still work as before, that the weapons give the same additional attacks and such. I personally can not even see why it seems so unlikely that GW just moved the additional attack to the unit stat line. Did they not exactly do this with the Deathguard and Hateful Assault?

This is 100% too early for a proper discussion and judgement about whether we're actually better or worse off. We still have a lot of unknowns at play, even for the units that have leaked datasheets:

• Have any unit abilities changed?
  
• Have any wargear abilities changed?
  
• How has Poison changed?
  
• How have stratagems changed?
  
• How have Obsessions changed?
  
• Has Power From Pain changed?
  
• Have Combat Drugs changed?
  
• Have any aura or synergy abilities been changed or added?
  
• Have we received any kind of "pure faction" bonus, and if so, what is it?
  

The answer to literally any one of these questions could drastically change our power level or how we play.

red_head wrote:

And I doubt they'll stop being fun to play.

I think you're misunderstanding me.

Dark Eldar is already not fun for me to play.

I'm bored of the pathetic roster of HQs.

I'm bored of the fact that the few we do have are dull and flavourless.

I'm bored of the restrictive army-building rules.

I'm bored of seeing other armies get supplements, hordes of new units and shiny models, whilst we get a single remake of an existing model, and a supplement that amounted to overpriced toilet paper.

I've even dropped my pet conversion project because I just can't muster any enthusiasm for Dark Eldar any more.


So you see, my concern isn't that this book will change DE to the point that they're no longer fun. My concern is that they won't change them sufficiently that they start being fun for me again.

Even if we don’t get the extra attack from Wych weapons, they are still better for the -1ap. I agree it’s far too soon to make a commitment to saying Wyches are now good but it’s also far too soon to say the opposite which is pretty much what I’m hearing far too often on this page.

It’s the same old rubbish from salty individuals. Dark Lance gets loads better, blasters remain the same...negativity.

Warriors get a 4+ save but such negativity around a +1 attack.

We don’t know the full picture yet but some people seem to look at baseline stats and assume that’s it! Game over man!!!

Burnage wrote:

Koldan wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

What’s giving me hope that there are still special rules to the Wyche weapons is that the razor flail baseline stats are the same as the Hek blades. Which we know means there is something additional to the razor flail.

So let’s say they all keep their original rules where almost all the wyche weapons give an extra attack and the razor flail gives an extra 3. That means a 10 strong wyche squad would get base 3 attacks +1 from their weapons +1 from drugs. That would kick out 54 attacks and let’s say you had one of each gladiator weapon in the squad. That unit on average kills a 5 man Primaris unit in CC. That’s without the potential for wyche cult rules.

The reason that’s good is that when you need to take an objective off of a player by deleting the unit and then holding the objective then Wyches can do that. I know that I’m guessing at the extra attack from the weapons but I do hope I’m right on that. This unit kills 17 guardsmen in CC as well.

I personally think this discussion is too early especially for Wyches i think it is impossible to say how good they will be without knowing what happens with drugs.
Sorry that I picked your comment, could be many other. Your whole calculations is based on wishing and guessing. You wish that drugs still work as before, that the weapons give the same additional attacks and such. I personally can not even see why it seems so unlikely that GW just moved the additional attack to the unit stat line. Did they not exactly do this with the Deathguard and Hateful Assault?

This is 100% too early for a proper discussion and judgement about whether we're actually better or worse off. We still have a lot of unknowns at play, even for the units that have leaked datasheets:

• Have any unit abilities changed?
  
• Have any wargear abilities changed?
  
• How has Poison changed?
  
• How have stratagems changed?
  
• How have Obsessions changed?
  
• Has Power From Pain changed?
  
• Have Combat Drugs changed?
  
• Have any aura or synergy abilities been changed or added?
  
• Have we received any kind of "pure faction" bonus, and if so, what is it?
  

The answer to literally any one of these questions could drastically change our power level or how we play.

Well that’s being even more optimistic than me thinking GW would address in any great detail the list you’ve provided there.

Taking the new baseline stats and applying them to existing known rules is imo a fairly logical way of assessing what may be possible in the future codex. It does of course come with the caveat that there are no big changes to major rules like drugs, pfp and cult rules.

My question to you is what exactly do you expect to happen to such rules? If GW nerf them, then we will be much weaker and I don’t feel as though that is called for. If they buff them then fantastic...my optimism is rewarded because we are even better than I’m suggesting we could be.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Well that’s being even more optimistic than me thinking GW would address in any great detail the list you’ve provided there.

Taking the new baseline stats and applying them to existing known rules is imo a fairly logical way of assessing what may be possible in the future codex. It does of course come with the caveat that there are no big changes to major rules like drugs, pfp and cult rules.

My question to you is what exactly do you expect to happen to such rules? If GW nerf them, then we will be much weaker and I don’t feel as though that is called for. If they buff them then fantastic...my optimism is rewarded because we are even better than I’m suggesting we could be.

I'm expecting more re-organisation than straight up buffs for most of these things - e.g., I can imagine Hydra Gauntlets losing the reroll wounds ability now that they grant +2 Strength. But maybe the Succubus grants a reroll wounds aura? Who knows.

Like I say, lots of unknowns and GW's current designs rely so heavily on rules interactions that we really do need the full picture before we can start to figure out how things shake out.

My calculations for Wyches have been applied as if there are no special rules other than the additional attacks we currently receive. If they don’t receive the extra attack it will make a small difference to how good they are but I do genuinely believe it’s not far off.

Will drugs change? Will PfP change? If they do then it will surely have to be in a balanced way i.e. gains and losses in equal measure otherwise we will see the flavour of the army disappear. I just don’t think GW will look at those types of rules and see anything broken.

So yes rules may change but I think it would be very odd to see the rules change in such a way that makes us altogether worse.

I do think that people have been making an overly big deal about the +1A on kabalites. It's basically just a bit of fluff - something to represent the fact that kabalites are supposed to be able to beat the crap out of guardsmen, Eldar guardians, and the like in a fist fight.

krayd wrote:

I do think that people have been making an overly big deal about the +1A on kabalites. It's basically just a bit of fluff - something to represent the fact that kabalites are supposed to be able to beat the crap out of guardsmen, Eldar guardians, and the like in a fist fight.

Good point. I like the idea of adding an attack just to show a better skill set than that of a guardsman.

I think Shredders being 18” is good.
Dark Lances now do an average 5 damage.
Kabs 4+ save

I’d say now you will be wanting specific builds for specific roles for Kabs. Maybe Shredders with Dark Lance builds will see a return. Raiders will be back for sure.

Unless shredders autohit now they still serve no role in the army 2/3rds of d6 shots sucks at 24" let alone 18"

Two Shredders vs two Splinter Rifles...I can see a reason to take them.

Auto hitting? You sound stuck in 7th Ed.

They could also be given the blast rule meaning they do even better vs large hordes.

Listen people can still go back to loading their venoms with 5 Kabs with a blaster and blast pistol. That build hasn’t become a bad build with the new leaks.

What I’m saying is now you can look at having a 10 man squad with a Dark Lance in it which I rarely saw in 8th. Sat back sitting on an objective in cover actually surviving outside of a boat.

Man I love having more than one option. I don’t like everyone feeling they have to take the exact same list to win with DE. I’d love to see loads of different builds out there.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

red_head wrote:

And I doubt they'll stop being fun to play.

I think you're misunderstanding me.

Dark Eldar is already not fun for me to play.

I'm bored of the pathetic roster of HQs.

I'm bored of the fact that the few we do have are dull and flavourless.

I'm bored of the restrictive army-building rules.

I'm bored of seeing other armies get supplements, hordes of new units and shiny models, whilst we get a single remake of an existing model, and a supplement that amounted to overpriced toilet paper.

I've even dropped my pet conversion project because I just can't muster any enthusiasm for Dark Eldar any more.


So you see, my concern isn't that this book will change DE to the point that they're no longer fun. My concern is that they won't change them sufficiently that they start being fun for me again.

seriously, its one of the saddest post i've read probably in my entire life (i know, i'm still green on social medias).....i mean.....i sure hope you will act that way when you find your girlfriend (or boyfriend....don't know these days...) to be boring and that she does not excite you anymore....i hope you'll stay with her nonetheless as you do with DE.....or else you sound more like a women living with a violent husband for years and still thinking he will change!!!

Kalmah wrote:

Soulless Samurai wrote:

red_head wrote:

And I doubt they'll stop being fun to play.

I think you're misunderstanding me.

Dark Eldar is already not fun for me to play.

I'm bored of the pathetic roster of HQs.

I'm bored of the fact that the few we do have are dull and flavourless.

I'm bored of the restrictive army-building rules.

I'm bored of seeing other armies get supplements, hordes of new units and shiny models, whilst we get a single remake of an existing model, and a supplement that amounted to overpriced toilet paper.

I've even dropped my pet conversion project because I just can't muster any enthusiasm for Dark Eldar any more.


So you see, my concern isn't that this book will change DE to the point that they're no longer fun. My concern is that they won't change them sufficiently that they start being fun for me again.

seriously, its one of the saddest post i've read probably in my entire life (i know, i'm still green on social medias).....i mean.....i sure hope you will act that way when you find your girlfriend (or boyfriend....don't know these days...) to be boring and that she does not excite you anymore....i hope you'll stay with her nonetheless as you do with DE.....or else you sound more like a women living with a violent husband for years and still thinking he will change!!!

Your analogy is utter bollocks.

If you want to use a relationship analogy, you're the one telling me to stay in an abusive relationship because, no, really, it will definitely improve and he really honestly means it this time.

And if that's your attitude, kindly go stick your head in a drainpipe.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

So yes rules may change but I think it would be very odd to see the rules change in such a way that makes us altogether worse.

I expect that basically all rules, big and small, in the current codex are subject to change.
Regardless of whether there is a need or not. That is just usually what happens between editions and codexes. More to mix things up, I assume. It’s usually changes that alter playstyles and how certain units are used, rather than just the straight up nerfs, buffs, and fixes.

For instance a thurough change to Power From Pain could mix things up nicely in how we have grown accustomed to playing the army. And could be used to shape the way the army feels and plays.
As such I (personally) find it to be a likely candidate for change. Not because it is in need of change (but I do, also, believe that it is), but because adjustment to it is an important tool for the designers in creating a new style of play.

The same, kind of, goes for Obsessions, but with the added detail of them all currently being in their very first iteration (making them expected targets for reevaluation). I’m expecting we’ll see a complete overhaul of them, and possibly which kabals, cults, and covens that they represent.
(I have a guess that the +movement effect from flayed skull (and build-your-own) will go away in exchange for an increase in movement for our vehicles, but we’ll see)

I think there is a lot of potential in what is currently unknown. And looking forward to seeing what is to be revealed.

I skipped 70% of 8th all of my favourite quirks, maneuvers, and WHOLE UNITS were changed or removed. In 9th the rules are "better"

Burnage wrote:

This is 100% too early for a proper discussion and judgement about whether we're actually better or worse off. We still have a lot of unknowns at play, even for the units that have leaked datasheets:

Have any unit abilities changed?

No

Burnage wrote:

Have any wargear abilities changed?

A few of the weapon profiles have been given slight adjustments, like the Splinter Cannon and Dark Lance, -1 AP on Wych Knives, or 18" range on shredders, but that's all.

Burnage wrote:

How has Poison changed?

It hasn't. It's just been re-worded to do the same thing.

Burnage wrote:

How have stratagems changed?

They have been reduced in number and some of them have been renamed. 4 of them are confusingly nonsensical, and will be faq'd out of existence in 8 weeks.

Burnage wrote:

How have Obsessions changed?

You may now have an obsession in a 'mixed' detachment, but it will still only affect the relevant units. For example, a Black Heart detachment may include Wyches, but the Wyches will not benefit from the Obsession.

Burnage wrote:

Has Power From Pain changed?

No.

Burnage wrote:

[*]Have Combat Drugs changed?

No.

Burnage wrote:

Have any aura or synergy abilities been changed or added?

No.

Burnage wrote:

Have we received any kind of "pure faction" bonus, and if so, what is it?

No, we haven't received any.

Burnage wrote:

The answer to literally any one of these questions could drastically change our power level or how we play.

It could have, but sadly it didn't.

I would caution on being too hyped on the 4+ save for Kabalites. I fear we may be making the same mistake as the Death Guard, where a unit's stats are released before their abilities. People get hyped on the improved stats, assume the abilities remain the same, then are outraged when they are revealed to have changed as they mourn a unit that didn't actually exist.

We don't know if PfP is still going to grant an army wide Feel No Pain. Given 9th edition codex's trend to reduce army wide FnP, I'm actually finding it unlikely that we'll keep our 6+++ on anything but Coven.

With that, I'm going to do a bit of math on the Kab statline in terms of defense.

Current (5+, 6+++)
One Bolter: 1 Hit -> .67 Wounds -> .37 Taken
One Lasgun: 1 Hit -> .50 Wounds -> .27 Taken
One Bolt Rifle (S4, AP1) 1 Hit -> .67 Wounds -> .46 Taken

Our Current Perception (4+, 6+++)
Bolter: 1 Hit -> .67 Wounds -> .27 Taken
Lasgun: 1 Hit -> .5 Wounds -> .21 Taken
Bolt Rifle 1 Hit -> .67 Wounds -> .37 Taken

Potential Reality (4+, no +++)
Bolter: 1 Hit -> .67 Wounds -> .33 Taken
Lasgun: 1 Hit -> .50 Wounds -> .25 Taken
Bolt Rifle 1 Hit -> .67 Wounds -> .44 Taken

Basically, if Kabs keep their Feel No Pain their defensive profile improves noticeably. If that 6+++ dissapears, the armor buff essentially turns into a side grade, offering fairly negligible benefits.

I don't have a great feeling about this still. I'll reserve some of my more salty thoughts until we see full profiles, but again, let's not make the same mistake as the Death Guard players and fill in the blanks with optimism either.

@Soulless Samurai i think you're misunderstanding me, i'm not telling you to stay with it, on the contrary, i'm telling you that you should move on and select another faction there's like 20 others with superb and amazing codexes! i mean.....after 10 years of deceptions....

Barking Agatha wrote:

Burnage wrote:

This is 100% too early for a proper discussion and judgement about whether we're actually better or worse off. We still have a lot of unknowns at play, even for the units that have leaked datasheets:

Have any unit abilities changed?

No

Burnage wrote:

Have any wargear abilities changed?

A few of the weapon profiles have been given slight adjustments, like the Splinter Cannon and Dark Lance, -1 AP on Wych Knives, or 18" range on shredders, but that's all.

Burnage wrote:

How has Poison changed?

It hasn't. It's just been re-worded to do the same thing.

Burnage wrote:

How have stratagems changed?

They have been reduced in number and some of them have been renamed. 4 of them are confusingly nonsensical, and will be faq'd out of existence in 8 weeks.

Burnage wrote:

How have Obsessions changed?

You may now have an obsession in a 'mixed' detachment, but it will still only affect the relevant units. For example, a Black Heart detachment may include Wyches, but the Wyches will not benefit from the Obsession.

Burnage wrote:

Has Power From Pain changed?

No.

Burnage wrote:

[*]Have Combat Drugs changed?

[*]

No.

Burnage wrote:

Have any aura or synergy abilities been changed or added?

No.

Burnage wrote:

Have we received any kind of "pure faction" bonus, and if so, what is it?

No, we haven't received any.

Burnage wrote:

The answer to literally any one of these questions could drastically change our power level or how we play.

It could have, but sadly it didn't.

May I ask about your source of information? And would you answer the question?^^

Koldan wrote:

May I ask about your source of information? And would you answer the question?^^

David Hume

Barking Agatha wrote:

Koldan wrote:

May I ask about your source of information? And would you answer the question?^^

David Hume

That is definitely a way of saying that, I never heard of before.