Wrack Attack

So I am sure many of us watched the new Dark Eldar codex release, and have seen that <Coven> and Wracks in general have changed drastically.

Now that Wracks get a 5+++ save instead of the old 5++ save, how are people thinking about running them?

The new "Super Wrack" unit gets to have their +1 to the invulnerable save (so 5++/5+++ for most of the game), and a Master Haemonculus can resurect D3 wracks every turn. I dont know if large 20 man blobs are worth it anymore.

My first test game with the new codex will probably just include the max 10 man Super-Wrack unit and nothing more.

What are the thoughts from my fellow Archons? Going Dark Techno for the mass D2 Flamers? Grabbing the +1AP <Coven> for some CC monsters? Going custom Coven for resurrecting's an additional D3 after killing something in CC?

I’m going to play around with several different list builds using either small DT Liquifier squads in Venoms or 20 man squads with PoF to take and hold objectives. I also think DT 20 man squads with four Hexrifles just camping on your back objective can be good for character harassment as AP -2 3 Dmg sniper rifles that wound most characters on 2s is going to be great for forcing your opponent to hide annoying support characters like Foul Blightspawn or Chaplains/Librarians. Just two failed saves will kill most characters in the game now.

I think 5 naked wracks for 40 points will make a great option to put into strategic reserves and pop out on turns 2 and 3 to get deploy scramblers and to help ensure engage on all fronts.

With Wracks costing the same as a Warrior, I currently see the Warrior as a little better.

The Super Wracks with their 5++/5+++ are interesting, but I dont see myself taking any beyond those.

sweetbacon wrote:

I’m going to play around with several different list builds using either small DT Liquifier squads in Venoms or 20 man squads with PoF to take and hold objectives.  I also think DT 20 man squads with four Hexrifles just camping on your back objective can be good for character harassment as AP -2 3 Dmg sniper rifles that wound most characters on 2s is going to be great for forcing your opponent to hide annoying support characters like Foul Blightspawn or Chaplains/Librarians.  Just two failed saves will kill most characters in the game now.

I think that Hexrifle is for the Acotyst only. So if you want 4 of them you have to do 4x5 squads, not 1x20.



Besides the obvious DT, there are some uses that I can think about it.

PoF: 20 man size squad with a partial Transhuman sounds nice. You don't want shoot them with multiple damages, so you would fire them with saturation. But this saturation will wounds on 4+, saving 6++/5+++ and they're 20. +D3 every turn. That sounds tanky for an OS troop wo will even fight a bit.
The same is with the Haemoxyti, 10 but 5++/5++, same resuts.

13th: Ap-2 with blade artists and rerolling wounds strats sounds great. If you spend 2 CPs you will be able to threat Veichles as well.

EDIT on DarkCreed. It works by units, not models. Meh

Ah, you’re right. I thought you could take one for the Acorhyst and one for every five like with the other ranges weapons. In that case I’d do 5 x 5 with a Hexeifle and Liquifier in each if I was going for drive by shooting in a transport as a list.

How many liquifier can I put in a 5 men squad?

CptMetal wrote:

How many liquifier can I put in a 5 men squad?

2 as before. One on the Acothyst, 1 per 5 models.

I am currently imagining running just a small Coven element to my lists now, basically a Haemi, 10 Super-Wracks, then 5 Grots (love that sweet D2).

None of the named-Covens are really doing it for me with these units.

My current thought would be a Custom Coven with re-roll charges and -1CP on Torturers Craft (re-roll wounds). All of my Coven units would benefit from that.

Really strange building Coven for damage output instead of survivability. Loving this new Codex!

fisheyes wrote:

With Wracks costing the same as a Warrior, I currently see the Warrior as a little better.

The Super Wracks with their 5++/5+++ are interesting, but I dont see myself taking any beyond those.

I think Warriors are a bit more flexible but DT Wracks still look very appealing to me.

3 units with Hexrifles (and probably Ossefactors) could do some serious damage to enemy characters, and have the advantage of not requiring transports.

Or you could have 3 units with 2 Liquifier Guns each, all charging towards the enemy.


Only issue is that I'm not sure I'd particularly want DT Grots, Talos or Cronos (maybe the Cronos?) - so it would just be a small, support detachment for me.

Thats kinda what I am thinking. Most of the benefits for Wracks are not great on Talos/Grots, and vise-versa.

The closest I can see is the custom-coven I mentioned above.

Regardless, Coven have gone from an Auto-include/ Always-good list addition to more of a "niche" thing. You would need to build your list around having your DT dudes doing their thing, and I would rather build for straight speed/damage with the Cults.

If you minimize the Wrack component, and max out on Grots/Talos the -1 Damage Custom Coven is a slam dunk, but the opportunity cost just doesnt make sense to me at this early time.

Damn do I love this Codex! So many permutations to run

fisheyes wrote:

I am currently imagining running just a small Coven element to my lists now, basically a Haemi, 10 Super-Wracks, then 5 Grots (love that sweet D2).

Have been out of the hobbt for a while so could you clarify something for me? Does D2 equate to dealing 2 wounds? Cheers

Cavash wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

I am currently imagining running just a small Coven element to my lists now, basically a Haemi, 10 Super-Wracks, then 5 Grots (love that sweet D2).

Have been out of the hobbt for a while so could you clarify something for me? Does D2 equate to dealing 2 wounds? Cheers

Indeed. Since 8th edition every weapon now has a "damage" characteristic and having multiple wounds is much more common (2 wounds for Marines, 3 wounds for Terminators etc.). Similarly, there is no difference between wounding monsters and vehicles.

It's a huge improvement on the game because S6/S7 weapon spam isn't the answer to everything anymore. Even better, our lances now deal 3 + D3 damage.

Do Dark Creed provide the -1 to Ld? If you had a Dark Creed Venom with Grisly Trophies would it stack the Ld de buff?

Because if it does, then that’s a nice support unit for a load of Incubi.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Do Dark Creed provide the -1 to Ld? If you had a Dark Creed Venom with Grisly Trophies would it stack the Ld de buff?

Because if it does, then that’s a nice support unit for a load of Incubi.

Yes, and yes. Tabletop Titans on youtube got their first game with this combo.

That's the way I want to try too. If you think about it, DarkCreed get a straight foward +1 to hit against everything when you support with Trophies. Them+Incubi are nasty.

Cerve wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Do Dark Creed provide the -1 to Ld? If you had a Dark Creed Venom with Grisly Trophies would it stack the Ld de buff?

Because if it does, then that’s a nice support unit for a load of Incubi.

Yes, and yes. Tabletop Titans on youtube got their first game with this combo.

That's the way I want to try too. If you think about it, DarkCreed get a straight foward +1 to hit against everything when you support with Trophies. Them+Incubi are nasty.

That may be the way forward for me then as I will perhaps only be taking a small number of coven for tactical reasons rather than durability or killy reasons.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Do Dark Creed provide the -1 to Ld? If you had a Dark Creed Venom with Grisly Trophies would it stack the Ld de buff?

Because if it does, then that’s a nice support unit for a load of Incubi.

Don't forget the synergy with Phantasm Grenade Launchers to cause mortal wounds.

Cerve wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Do Dark Creed provide the -1 to Ld? If you had a Dark Creed Venom with Grisly Trophies would it stack the Ld de buff?

Because if it does, then that’s a nice support unit for a load of Incubi.

Yes, and yes. Tabletop Titans on youtube got their first game with this combo.

That's the way I want to try too. If you think about it, DarkCreed get a straight foward +1 to hit against everything when you support with Trophies. Them+Incubi are nasty.

Might this sort of strategy make PGL-spam viable?


EDIT: Ninja'd.

Also Dark Creed have a very cool Heamy build for more disruptive behaviour which is kinda cool.

I think there are just so many ways of building a list now...it’s just so cool. There are very few “auto includes” which makes everyone’s lists so varied and capable of different play styles.

You won’t be getting bored in a hurry with DE!

Who’s pre ordered btw?

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Cerve wrote:

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Do Dark Creed provide the -1 to Ld? If you had a Dark Creed Venom with Grisly Trophies would it stack the Ld de buff?

Because if it does, then that’s a nice support unit for a load of Incubi.

Yes, and yes. Tabletop Titans on youtube got their first game with this combo.

That's the way I want to try too. If you think about it, DarkCreed get a straight foward +1 to hit against everything when you support with Trophies. Them+Incubi are nasty.

Might this sort of strategy make PGL-spam viable?


EDIT: Ninja'd.

I think it can ben, potentially!
The problem is when you try to stuff everything in the list. But potentially...yeah, you can simply massacre a single unit with multiple Pgl shots if I'm not missing anything.


If you spam veichles, you can even try this weird thing that it spamming chains. DarkCreed gives you +1 to hit if enemy Ld is equal o less than yours, so like every Venom/Raider are going to fight with 6 Attacks, WS3+ (don't forget Trophyes for a total of -3) S6(7) Ap-1 D1. Which isn't bad when you think about cleaning chaff units without shooting a single shot. You just gain a straight foward melee potential from "nothing" if you think about that. Because transports usually don't fight. So it's not tha you're wasting other valuable unit's shoot/melee potential on expendable shielding units.

There is certainly something to be said for the reawakening of our old 7th edition Freakshow lists built around the Dark Creed leadership debuffs. But it would need a whole list built around it, with MSU coven units and a "bunch" of transports sporting the Grisley Trophies. I am sure that list is valuable somewhere, but not really what I am thinking about TBH.

Really like the Black Heart re-rolls for my transports right now.

Still not seeing much that interests me more than my Re-roll charges/Torturers Craft custom Coven. Electrocorrosive Whips giving the Acothyst A6 isnt bad at all, that seems to be the best option for a TAC style list.

But I do like the discussion! Please keep the ideas flowing

Edit: I totally did the pre-order, and glad I did. A buddy tried to get the Piety and Pain box set around noon, and they were LONG gone by that time XD

Dark Creed Venom on turn 3 would be hitting on 2s in combat lol is that right? Because they hit on 4s and turn 3 it’s +1 to hit from pfp. They would be dishing out -3 to Ld with Grisly Trophies and Dark Creed so they would be gaining +1 to hit. I’m not saying it’s competitive but quite funny to think your Venoms are potentially having 6 S6 attacks hitting on 2s. Some armies don’t have a single unit that can do that lol

The changes to Venoms is phenomenal. I keep wanting to throw in 4, then give them Grisly Trophies, Chain Snairs, Second Splinter Cannon.... Then suddenly my list is 2251 points XD

fisheyes wrote:

What are the thoughts from my fellow Archons? Going Dark Techno for the mass D2 Flamers? Grabbing the +1AP <Coven> for some CC monsters? Going custom Coven for resurrecting's an additional D3 after killing something in CC?

The first one. Drive-by liquifying my enemies.

I'm actually planning to convert some wracks.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Dark Creed Venom on turn 3 would be hitting on 2s in combat lol is that right? Because they hit on 4s and turn 3 it’s +1 to hit from pfp. They would be dishing out -3 to Ld with Grisly Trophies and Dark Creed so they would be gaining +1 to hit. I’m not saying it’s competitive but quite funny to think your Venoms are potentially having 6 S6 attacks hitting on 2s. Some armies don’t have a single unit that can do that lol

I guess you still limited to +1/-1 final modifiers from the 9th. So you will never fight at Ws2+. But if you will fight some -1 to hit, then you still go at 3+ (+2 -1= +1).