Ynnari have leaked - prepare to be salty

The big news is that they're a Craftworld now.
To run Ynnari, you MUST take a Craftworld detachment.
You can add Drukhari and Harlequin units to that Craftworld detachment, but must take a Craftworlds unit for each other.

• Transports are faction locked (Drukhari to Drukhari, etc)
  
• Same unit limitations as before (no Coven, et al)
  
• Ynnari Incubi +4pts, Ynnari Scourge +2pts
  
• No Lords of Commoragh or Favoured Retinues
  
• If in engagement range at the start of the Fight phase, fight first
  
• If the unit below starting strength, +1 to hit
  
• Warlord Trait is one wound regen each turn, +1S and +1A in Fight Phase if enemeies are below starting strength
  

https://www.reddit.com/r/Drukhari/comments/t0aflk/ynnari_leaked_for_every_drukhari_unit_you_need_a/

i started a Craftworld army recently, but did not want to play Ynnari anyway (even if i already play Drukhari) since i want both army to feel distinct........so no salt for me, instead, it's more like: aw well, my decision seems to be a good one in the end

It's pretty annoying just how much has been devoured by this new Eldar book. "Did you like Ynnari Harlequins, Ynnari Dark Eldar, or really any Ynnari army that wasn't predominantly Craftworld Eldar? Sorry, now every Ynnari must be predominantly Craftworlds, just because."

It's especially frustrating because there are things about Ynnari I like. The new abilities are more useful and I like that there's no longer a requirement to take one of the stupid special characters in every sodding detachment.

However, that requirement has instead been replaced with a much worse one, which invalidated my entire Ynnari army (as it was Harlequins and Dark Eldar).

I don't know, so much here just feels petty and anti-fun. Especially as the artefacts and warlord traits from the previous version have been scaled back to a pathetic one of each. Why can't Harlequin characters take Pivatol Roles? Why can't Dark Eldar characters be Lords of Commoragh? Especially given that those units aren't exactly burdened with choice to begin with (for the Death Jester, the Pivotal Role is literally the only customisation available). Is there some rule wherein Ynnari characters have to be as bland and boring as possible?

I know I'm only speaking for myself here but I'd happily give up Runes of Fortune if it meant I could play a Ynnari army that wasn't a chore to build, and which might actually be fun.

well at least now you will still be able to play your Harlequin/Dark Eldar but NOT under the Ynnari rules.
Maybe in the end this will be just plain better to still have access to PfP as well as Coven units instead of the Ynnari rules.....time will tell!

Kalmah wrote:

well at least now you will still be able to play your Harlequin/Dark Eldar but NOT under the Ynnari rules.
Maybe in the end this will be just plain better to still have access to PfP as well as Coven units instead of the Ynnari rules.....time will tell!

what

Kalmah wrote:

well at least now you will still be able to play your Harlequin/Dark Eldar but NOT under the Ynnari rules.
Maybe in the end this will be just plain better to still have access to PfP as well as Coven units instead of the Ynnari rules.....time will tell!

For everyone already enjoying DE, the Harlequin allies is fantastic news.

The thing is, my enthusiasm for DE has been seriously waning and so I was really hoping Ynnari might rekindle my excitement. Instead, it seems DE drain the fun and options from anything they come into contact with. Harlequin characters have all these fun upgrade abilities . . . right up until they share a detachment with DE, then those abilities just melt away.

(I could keep Harlequins separate but then I'm still left with all the same issues with DE, plus I lose all the options like Lord of Rebirth, Strength from Death etc., which Harlequins have no equivalent to.)

I don't know, it just seems like Ynnari have been pre-emptively hammered in the worst way possible.

I love the Ynnari models, but those are the only positive words I have for Ynnari. Since their first introduction, I liked the idea, but it has always felt too much like a voluntarily taken penalty to actually play them. GW really seems to actively discourage people to use those models. Too bad.

But like @Kalmah said, at least we can just add a Harlequin detachment to our DE army without penalty again, which seems by far the better option at the moment.

Gelmir wrote:

I love the Ynnari models, but those are the only positive words I have for Ynnari. Since their first introduction, I liked the idea, but it has always felt too much like a voluntarily taken penalty to actually play them. GW really seems to actively discourage people to use those models. Too bad.

Honestly, it feels like they're still being hammered for past sins. The ability to take out-of-sequence actions in 7th edition and early 8th was incredibly potent (especially with units like Shining Spears), and made Ynnari one of the most powerful ways to field Eldar.

However, despite the whole out-of-sequence actions shtick being entirely removed two iterations ago, and having been replaced with far more tame abilities, GW seems to be operating as though it was still in effect.

Thus, what should be one of the most free and flexible armies in the game instead comes with a page of anti-fun limitations and restrictions to balance out rules that have long since ceased to exist.

At least they look pretty in a display kabinet?

Gelmir wrote:

At least they look pretty in a display kabinet?

I don't think that they're going to be *weak*; they're just not as flexible, since you have to include craftworld units.

krayd wrote:

Gelmir wrote:

At least they look pretty in a display kabinet?

I don't think that they're going to be *weak*; they're just not as flexible, since you have to include craftworld units.

Right now I'd actually suggest that it looks like they are going to be weak, since Ynnari are down to a single strat/WLT/relic and none of the generic ones seem to be applicable to non-Asuryani units.

In practice a Ynnari detachment that adds in Drukhari or Harlequin units is just going to be objectively inferior to an army that has distinct CWE/DE detachments; you still lose Strands of Fate and Power From Pain but keep Craftworld traits and Obsessions, access to strats, named characters, Covens units, you don't have to take a Wave Serpent for every Venom or Raider you want (!), Drukhari characters won't lose their auras, etc...

I am indeed pretty salty about theses changes, and it's especially frustrating when you could mostly just take the detachment building rules here and apply them to the Phoenix Rising iteration of Ynnari and it would leave them in a good spot.

The rules state that all Ynarri units gain the YNARRI keyword, which counts as a <CRAFTWORLD>, and gain craftworld attributes, so that appears to mean that Scourges will get battle focus (won't be able to confirm until I see the referenced page for craftworld attributes that they get), and that any stratagems that affect a generic <CRAFTWORLD> unit will apply to the harlies and drukhari in the army as well.

I'm pretty sure that it means that they keep strands of fate as well. It is worth noting that the Yncarne's datasheet has strands of fate.

My understanding is that the Craftworld attribute is just Strength From Death (fight first, +1 to hit in melee if a model in the fighting unit is dead). I don't believe they get Battle Focus because it isn't added to their datasheet, Strands is broken because they don't gain the ASURYANI keyword, and stratagems aren't applicable for the most part because they specify ASURYANI <CRAFTWORLD>, not just <CRAFTWORLD>.

Because YNNARI is considered a <CRAFTWORLD> and explicitly doesn't replace <KABAL>, <CULT> or <SAEDATH> it also completely breaks any buffs that were dependent on those keywords. It's like GW have gone out of their way to ensure there's no possible way to make the faction strong.

My biggest problem at the moment: I don't have room for a display kabinet to put them in. :S

Is it possibile to field the Yncarne as a mercenary in a DE army as before? Or is it mandatory to have an Ynnari detatchment?

Cerve wrote:

Is it possibile to field the Yncarne as a mercenary in a DE army as before? Or is it mandatory to have an Ynnari detatchment?

Nope, can't include it in a Drukhari detachment at all. You can stick it in any Craftworld detachment but you'll lose any Craftworld traits unless it's designated Ynnari.

As far as I can remember, none of the leaked pages thus far have indicated that the Ynnari special characters can be used as mercenaries in non-Ynnari armies.

However, I don't think the entire codex has been leaked yet, so it's possible a page we haven't yet seen might allow it.

Burnage wrote:

Cerve wrote:

Is it possibile to field the Yncarne as a mercenary in a DE army as before? Or is it mandatory to have an Ynnari detatchment?

Nope, can't include it in a Drukhari detachment at all. You can stick it in any Craftworld detachment but you'll lose any Craftworld traits unless it's designated Ynnari.

Why not? What about the Weakling kin rule, which allows to include models with Ynnari keyword in the same detachment?

sekac wrote:

DarkCycu wrote:

Burnage wrote:

Cerve wrote:

Is it possibile to field the Yncarne as a mercenary in a DE army as before? Or is it mandatory to have an Ynnari detatchment?

Nope, can't include it in a Drukhari detachment at all. You can stick it in any Craftworld detachment but you'll lose any Craftworld traits unless it's designated Ynnari.

Why not? What about the Weakling kin rule, which allows to include models with Ynnari keyword in the same detachment?

Exactly right. Weakling Kin still allows us to include any of the Triumvirate. However, since none of them have the Drukhari faction key word, they do turn off Power from Pain for the rest of the army.


They can be included in an Asuryani detachment too, but they do have the Asuryani faction keyword so they do not turn off Strands of Fate.


They really should just have all of Drukhari, Asuryani, and Ynnari, but here we are ‍�

This is wrong if you're playing with the GT pack, as that ruleset states that each unit in a detachment must have a faction keyword in common other than Aeldari.

With that said it also states that the keyword in common can't be Ynnari, either, so RAW you're not technically allowed to bring Drukhari or Harlequin units in a Ynnari detachment in competitive play.

Edit: As a side note, I did double check Weakling Kin, and it just states that you're not allowed to include Drukhari and non-Drukhari Aeldari in the same detachment unless they all share the Ynnari keyword. Since there's no mechanism to turn Drukhari into Ynnari outside of running them as the new version from the Aeldari Codex, you can't slot Yvraine into a Drukhari detachment even if you're not playing with the GT pack.

The "you can't have a mixed Aeldari detachment" rule only applies to matched play, Weakling Kin is just extending that to narrative play involving battle-forged armies as well.

sekac wrote:

What it says is "You cannot include Drukhari and non-Drukhari Aeldari units in the same Detachment unless all those units have the Ynnari key word."

To me, "those" is referring to the non-Drukhari Aeldari units. I.e. "You cannot include Drukhari and non-Drukhari Aledari units in the same detachment unless all [the non-Drukhari Aeldari] units have the Ynnari keyword."

I read it as "You cannot include Drukhari and non-Drukhari Aledari units in the same detachment unless ALL those[Both the Drukhari AND the non-Drukhari Aeldari] units have the Ynnari keyword."
That said, I'm definitely not sure, and this rule could use some clarification from GW.

Gelmir wrote:

sekac wrote:

What it says is "You cannot include Drukhari and non-Drukhari Aeldari units in the same Detachment unless all those units have the Ynnari key word."

To me, "those" is referring to the non-Drukhari Aeldari units. I.e. "You cannot include Drukhari and non-Drukhari Aledari units in the same detachment unless all [the non-Drukhari Aeldari] units have the Ynnari keyword."

I read it as "You cannot include Drukhari and non-Drukhari Aledari units in the same detachment unless ALL those[Both the Drukhari AND the non-Drukhari Aeldari] units have the Ynnari keyword."
That said, I'm definitely not sure, and this rule could use some clarification from GW.

FWIW, this would be my reading as well.

Something else to keep in mind is that Ynnari worked differently when the Dark Eldar book was released, so it could be that this rule no longer serves any purpose at all.