Army of Renown Confirmed

Sarcron wrote:

Same way that rules specify <coven> or Urien for things like stratagems

Fair enough. Not that you're going to field Urien anyway but..that's a bit silly tho.

ikr lol, although that being said I do like to run urien, 10 pts extra for an incredibly resilient character that let's you take a second unit of haemoxytes? I love him. Also the worms are funny

Sarcron wrote:

ikr lol, although that being said I do like to run urien, 10 pts extra for an incredibly resilient character that let's you take a second unit of haemoxytes? I love him. Also the worms are funny

Anyway there are some HUGE comboes inside that Army of Renow.
For example, you can give 4+++ to Incubi and Drazhar.
You can give +1S or to wound on poison guns to Scourges

And so on

Truuuue, will need to see specific wording for the interactions between stuff and blades for hire, but if so could be very nice. Although you wouldn't be able to give drazhar the 4+++ if it also affects blades for hire units, needs to be under half-strength and drazhars a single model

Sarcron wrote:

Truuuue, will need to see specific wording for the interactions between stuff and blades for hire, but if so could be very nice. Although you wouldn't be able to give drazhar the 4+++ if it also affects blades for hire units, needs to be under half-strength and drazhars a single model

I'm talking about the strat: you charge, destroy a unit, and you get 4+++ all game long.
You just need to be CORE or CHARACTER, and blades for hire becames units of Coterie.
That's actually amazing and game changing.
You can even pop the strat that allows you to kill 1 model and get -1 to wound to the oppo until the end of the phase.

About upgrading units before the game, you just need to be CORE. So yes you can upgrade Scourges.

ohhh right, and damn okay, figures it turns into an amazing army for blades for hire units lol

Sarcron wrote:

ohhh right, and damn okay, figures it turns into an amazing army for blades for hire units lol

Consider that technically you can do it with a clown patrols too lol.

Definitelly something that is going to be fixed. But I hope they'll left the blades buff.

An army of renown that was supposed to be themed around the covens ends up making non-coven units stronger. Very funny.
I don't like it.

We will have to see if CA returns CORE to at least the Cronos ...

Wrack_Enthusiast wrote:

An army of renown that was supposed to be themed around the covens ends up making non-coven units stronger. Very funny.
I don't like it.

It makes both. I'm fine with it (expecially for Scourges, that ARE a Coven creation after all).

I figured that they wrote these rules before the coven nerfs. It would be nice if a FAQ allowed most of these abilities to include CORE *or* Pain Engines (if they're not going to give CORE back to them). Similarly, it would be nice if GW FAQ'd the main codex for some of the interactions pain engines should still have (like haemonculus auras) to be allowed as well.

Sarcron wrote:

Goonhammer have put out their review for rift war here

Rules are as follows:

Can only take <coven> or blades for hire units in your army- this was kinda expected, but interesting to note that it means no urien.

Instead of an obsession, while units are under half-strength they get a 4+++... this is kinda meh, also everything gets fall back and charge.

Warlord traits:
1. Re-roll 1s to hit for CORE units within 6"
2. 5+ refund cp
3. CORE within 6" can re-roll number of shots

Relics:
1. An ichor injector that permanently reduces S, WS, BS for a non-vehicle unit
2. Start of morale phase pick an enemy unit within 12" - they get -4 morale
3. Stinger pistol w 5 shots that gives extra point of ap to units that fight the target that turn
4. Pick a non-vehicle unit at start of game and your CORE and characters get +1 to hit against it

Stratagems:
-Requisitions:
1. Character gets +3" to auras and abilities
2. CORE gets 3+ poison weapons
3. CORE gets +1 S to ranged weapons

-Strategic Ploys:
1. Pick a model that did wounds to a haemonculus in any phase, until end of next turn CORE get re-roll charges, hits, and wounds against it
2. Fight-phase, enemy units gets -1 to wound if one of your units destroys a model from it
3. remove obsec from an enemy unit
4. perma 4+++ on a unit if they destroy an enemy unit
5. Reduce attacks of an non-vehicle enemy unit if a poison weapon causes it to lose a wound

All of these cost 1 CP.

Overall I feel it's pretty weak, it almost feels like these were intended before pain engines lost CORE, and even then the replacement obsession is very... alright.

zzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZ

Expected or not, I can't say I've looked at the Dark Eldar codex recently and thought to myself 'you know what this needs? Even fewer options!'

No, scratch that, clearly our biggest problem is that we're spoiled for choice. How can we be expected to make any decisions at all when we have a wopping three generic HQs and two of them have wargear?! The best possible thing would be to remove the two that had wargear and just leave us the blandest, most boring HQ in the codex. I'm sure with just a little more tweaking, we can have an army that builds and plays itself, sparing DE players the agony of making any choices at all.

In all seriousness, I just don't get what this army is supposed to be. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of benefit over playing regular Coven, yet you have to forfeit 2/3rds of your army for the privilege.

After few days on these pages, I can say that I belive ther are some pretty competitive combos, and yes giving up 2/3rd of the Codex is ok when you consider that the third one is the best betweent the three and you're going to buff it a lot.
This is an army that plays on primaries and board control, being more durable than you can thought, and with some tricks on stratagems (so the cp farm may be mandatory here).
The big winners here imho are Protect the Greater One, and the 4+++ after killing a unit.
The second one is straightfoward a buff for single units. Drazhar disembark, charge, do his stuff and then he became 6W 2+/4++/4+++ with -1 dmg. If there was a single weakness on this guy it was the glasscannon effect, expecially vs MWs. Giving him 4+++ is nonsense.
Now 8-10 Incubi are a thing for the same reasons. They will die, of course, but 3+(1+ in cover+HuntfromtheShadows)/4+++ makes them way more durable against everything that usually kills them quickly (lightning claws, scatter shooting etc).
Indirectly it is a way to buff Engines too. 3 Talos with 4+++ are scary, and occasionally you can give to them -1 to wound to (which is basically a transhuman for 1 cp in melee). I can see an Harlequin Patrol+Coterie with just 3 Talos to keep them as an indipendent powerhouse (no, I'm not even think about to play coterie stratagems onto harlequins, GW will fix that 100% sure).
Even on Grotesques this stratagem it's huge. Consider 3x5 Grots, few of them die during the first turn, then the wounded units turns on their own 4+++ and the healthly pop his 4+++ for 1 CP.
Yes of course it is amazing on 20 Wracks or 10 Haemoxities too. This stratagem is just amazing by his own.
Protect the Great One it's a bit more tricky but incredibly good as well, because seems to be global. You play it in any phase and the effect works unti the end of YOUR next turn. So first of all, this is a nearly no-overwatch built in effect: you charge, if the oppo shoots overwatch it risk to trigger PTGO giving all the charging Wracks/Grots rerolling to..everything. Which means mortal wounds for gauntlet Grots or Metallotoxyn for Wracks, for example (besides the normal multiplier which is amazing). You can direct your Master Haemi to the target you want to kill and that's it. Of course the Master will coming back on 2+.

There are a lot of good stuff here. Shutting down OS fits perfectly the theme of the army (board control), +3" range on auras is great both on Haemies (+1T, regen Grots, regen Wracks) and Drazhar (+1 to wound within 9" to other Incubi), -4 Morale it's great vs thick guys like Deathwing (forcing the oppo to autopass morale with 2CP, turing on your CP farm) and protecting yourself for next countercharges on Drazh/Incubi. You can even combo DarkCreed with -4 morale+morales check or losing OS, or just 5 S5 liquefier sniping for 2CPs.

And of course the obsession means that half of your models have 4+++ now, try to think the 120 Wracks cheesing army for example.

I think this AoR is pretty solid by himself, tierA for sure, and I would even argue about being TierS if paired with Travelling Players.

Cerve wrote:

I think this AoR is pretty solid by himself, tierA for sure, and I would even argue about being TierS if paired with Travelling Players.

It's questionable as to whether travelling players *can* be used with it, as I don't think that travelling players overrides the unit/detachment restrictions for an army of renown. It may need to be FAQ'd, but I seriously doubt that non-drukhari detachments are in any way intended for this particular army-type.

I do agree with the article in that this AoR seems to have been written with Talos and Cronos still having CORE in mind

krayd wrote:

Cerve wrote:

I think this AoR is pretty solid by himself, tierA for sure, and I would even argue about being TierS if paired with Travelling Players.

It's questionable as to whether travelling players *can* be used with it, as I don't think that travelling players overrides the unit/detachment restrictions for an army of renown. It may need to be FAQ'd, but I seriously doubt that non-drukhari detachments are in any way intended for this particular army-type.

I don't belive it neither, as they fixed Inquisitor+AoR for SM.

Yeah with Core con Pain Engines this would have been really good. The Obsession itself is not that bad when you consider that you should roll every attack one by one. So this means that the 49% of your units has 4+++ no matter what. And retreat and charge is understimated imho if you think that like extramovement for your Wracks (which means better board control for primaries).

It is cool imho, I like it.

Cerve wrote:

krayd wrote:

Cerve wrote:

I think this AoR is pretty solid by himself, tierA for sure, and I would even argue about being TierS if paired with Travelling Players.

It's questionable as to whether travelling players *can* be used with it, as I don't think that travelling players overrides the unit/detachment restrictions for an army of renown. It may need to be FAQ'd, but I seriously doubt that non-drukhari detachments are in any way intended for this particular army-type.

I don't belive it neither, as they fixed Inquisitor+AoR for SM.

Yeah with Core con Pain Engines this would have been really good. The Obsession itself is not that bad when you consider that you should roll every attack one by one. So this means that the 49% of your units has 4+++ no matter what. And retreat and charge is understimated imho if you think that like extramovement for your Wracks (which means better board control for primaries).

It is cool imho, I like it.

Fall back and charge can definitely be good, but the selectiveness of the 4+++ means you won't get it on more than half your stuff- a unit of 3 grots or pain engines will only get it on the third one, 10 man units of wracks only on the last four, and single models completely unable. If I'm just looking for durability I find PoF to be better

Sarcron wrote:

Cerve wrote:

krayd wrote:

Cerve wrote:

I think this AoR is pretty solid by himself, tierA for sure, and I would even argue about being TierS if paired with Travelling Players.

It's questionable as to whether travelling players *can* be used with it, as I don't think that travelling players overrides the unit/detachment restrictions for an army of renown. It may need to be FAQ'd, but I seriously doubt that non-drukhari detachments are in any way intended for this particular army-type.

I don't belive it neither, as they fixed Inquisitor+AoR for SM.

Yeah with Core con Pain Engines this would have been really good. The Obsession itself is not that bad when you consider that you should roll every attack one by one. So this means that the 49% of your units has 4+++ no matter what. And retreat and charge is understimated imho if you think that like extramovement for your Wracks (which means better board control for primaries).

It is cool imho, I like it.

Fall back and charge can definitely be good, but the selectiveness of the 4+++ means you won't get it on more than half your stuff- a unit of 3 grots or pain engines will only get it on the third one, 10 man units of wracks only on the last four, and single models completely unable. If I'm just looking for durability I find PoF to be better

I'm not so sure all in all. I belive that with strats and ApR obsession you will be more durable than just PoF itself.
Which is obvious: PoF allows you to play Kabal and Wychcult too.

I was tinkering a bit with a Coven list and one thing in particular came up.
We had a small discussion about Raider spam in the power armor thread
and it suits very well in a Coven list. 3 Grots and 5 Wracks or Incubi fit perfectly in one boat.
The Dissi frees 5pts over a DL, but without Ravagers? Well, maybe Scourges or Taloi as anti-tank...
Maybe the AoR isnt half bad and maybe, just maybe, pain engines get Core in a Coterie...

So, what (if any) aspects of the AoR actually do benefit pain engines?

Other than things that affect enemy units... uh, the perma 4+++?
I think that's it...

I think the biggest buff from the AoR is the fall-back-and-charge army wide.

IMO the build would be 160 wracks and minimal HQs, flooding the board, and just playing the "can I outscore you before you table me" game.

Banners/Strangle and a third option. Get tabled on Turn 4, but maybe get enough of a lead before.

krayd wrote:

So, what (if any) aspects of the AoR actually do benefit pain engines?

Retreat and charge.
The last one will get 4+++.
4+++ for everyone if they destroy a unit.
-1 to wound on them if they kills a model.

3 Talos are mandatory for the Coterie Imho, you need something able to charge flyers, they add few antitank shots for transports, and you can buff one unit at a time anyway so 1x3 sounds more than enough.


I think the Wracks spam is a bait. Coterie is all about tricks and timing on playing those tricks. AotF or PoF are both just better for Wracks spam.
You'll going to play few 20men size blobs tho. But I think something between 20 and 60 max.
This army has almost 5 fivestars stratagems, 2 great "third relic" army (uber Injector and -4LD) and all the 3 WL traits are solid. It's just a feeling, I have my first game with them tonight, but I can see some really good stuff here.
I don't belive that Coteries are worst than normal DE. I consider it a sidegrade, a different way to play DE, at the same level imho.

Zenotaph wrote:

I was tinkering a bit with a Coven list and one thing in particular came up.
We had a small discussion about Raider spam in the power armor thread
and it suits very well in a Coven list. 3 Grots and 5 Wracks or Incubi fit perfectly in one boat.
The Dissi frees 5pts over a DL, but without Ravagers? Well, maybe Scourges or Taloi as anti-tank...
Maybe the AoR isnt half bad and maybe, just maybe, pain engines get Core in a Coterie...

Don't forget Reapers. A bit pricey, but they are our Coven Ravagers, if you need them.