Wych weapons are worthless

I see a lot f lists taking wych weapons

First of all the gauntlets and the flails are only as good as taking another wych. Another wych is another wound keeping your squad alive. I also think you are missing a trick if your squad is maxed out. I never take more than 8 in a squad anyway.

Shardnets have more utility but once your opponent figures them out they wont see much use. It is a simple matter to aviod them, just bubble wrap those important squad mmbers so they avoid the nets.

Good vs mc's and dreds? Perhaps. But surely we should be useing wyches on thise targets. Much bettr off killing them with poison or lance shots.

At 5 points i'd probably take them but 10 is just not worth it.

It's nice that you think they are worthless, but could you provide more arguments as to why exactly they are useless? Why are 8 wyches better than 10 for example?
Purely going by mathhammer makes hydra gauntlets better than having an additional wych on average. Shardnets may not be too useful in your opinion, but against MCs and dreads - like you say yourself - they are quite powerful. My wyches also serve as the bodyguard for my Archon. Minimizing return attacks is always a good thing, even with a shadowfield. But how about facing, say, nobz? That would seem to be a job for wyches, right? Incubi will just get cut down with all the powerclaws. That is if you don't take the nobz down with shooting, which you obviously should try to do. But against units like that, with lots of dangerous attacks AND different models so they can't just remove the models in b2b with the shardnet, the shardnet is quite valuable.
If you want to increase the damage output of squad without increasing the number of models (raider is already full), the wych weapons are the way to go, IMHO.

Shardnet's are worthless? My Runtherds laughed their arses off now. Ok, it cost 10 points rather than ~4 (discount on Boy user) but compare -1 attack on one model in b2b vs -1 attacks on ALL models in b2b. And If I'm correct it stacks, so 2 Wyches can lower almost everything to 1A.

While I agree that Flails are... fail (rerolls, wooo!) I kinda like Gauntlets. Oh, and both weapons looks cool!

Shardnet is IMHO best since you already have sick ammount of attacks but "tarpitting" may be invaluable.

My wyches always go in raiders and they always ride with a haemonculus.

Wych with Razorflail attacks give you 1.7 wounds (vs equal WS and T)
2 wyches give you 1.5 wounds

I'd rather have the extra body any day.

Similarly gauntlets give you an average of half an extra attack.

Over all I'd rather have the extra wych.

I like the shardnets more but they are usually thwarted by cunning model placement. You will usually be negating 1 basic attack per net. Not really worth it IMO. especially when i get a 4+/4+ save with FNP. It is this that maks my wyches a tarpit, not the extra attacks.

I find that 8 wyches can do pretty much anything that 10 wyches can do and the saving allows me to put points elsewhere in my list. For example, give my haemos liquefiers, shock prows on my raiders or even flickerfields on my ravagers.

As for looking cool. I still use them on my models and yes they look awesome but i just tell my opponent that all my wyches are plain at the beginning of the game and nobody has a problem.

Venkh wrote:

My wyches always go in raiders and they always ride with a haemonculus.

I like the shardnets more but they are usually thwarted by cunning model placement. You will usually be negating 1 basic attack per net. Not really worth it IMO. especially when i get a 4+/4+ save with FNP. It is this that maks my wyches a tarpit, not the extra attacks.

Except with "Pile In" move you must go as close as you can so rarely you can NOT engadge more than 1 enemy.

About 4+ inv with FNP... Shardnet basically "save" 1 Wych per CC phase. Note that most CC dedicated troops wound you on 3+ or 2+ and s6/PW negate FNP. I think it's worth, especially in Raider.

If i am assaulting i make sure the wych weapon armed models are engaged in such a way as to only allow one in B2B with each. Not that hard.

When facing an assault, keep your high str models behind their less gifted mates. Bubblewrapping should ensure that they rarely lose any enhanced attacks.

I dont take on really hardcore units with my wyches. Anything more dangerous than an assault marine is dealt with at range.

I guess that if you want to take these types of units on with wyches, nets are the best option, but i personally wouldnt plan for it.

In my opinion the only weapons worth taking on wyches (when you aren't tailoring your lists) are agonizers and impalers/shardnets.

I use my wyches almost exclusively for tarpitting, as I've found that their high number of attacks don't mean anything when half of the time my opponents are marines with WS4 and T4, but the shardnets help with keeping characters and sergeants off my back, while the agonizer ensures that I at least get a wound in to tie the combat.

However, in the case of going against Guardsmen, wyches with hydra gauntlets tear through them like a weedwacker through crabgrass.

I like to prolong the agony vs guardsman. A 2 turn win is just ideal.

Lat time i played vs guard I got 3 wych units engaged vs a 30 guard horde. I wanted to personally thank the commisar for keeping them there for the second turn

I'll give you that the razorflails are overpriced. Especially considering the only units that can take them automatically get combat drugs, and one of the drug rolls negates half the flails specialness.

Hydragauntlets are ok if you plan on using wyches vs a horde army, but it still requires a decent roll.

Shardnets seem to be the best overall, and are absolutely priceless if you have an IC with a clonefield.
That uber character you are fighting just went from 4 attacks to 3 and you negate 3 hits. Watch the rage build in the opponents eyes. But once you assault that basic trooper with only 1 attack, they seem pretty wasted.

But yes, you could trade off any of those upgrades for another wych. That gives you 1 more wound, and 3 more attacks on the charge.

It's all just a matter of what you plan on them fighting, and making sure you send them after what they are designed to kill.

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That uber character you are fighting just went from 4 attacks to 3 and you negate 3 hits. Watch the rage build in the opponents eyes.

To be fair, thats more of a function of the clone field than the shardnet. With all things being equal you arent going to get a net armed wych any where near my HQ or my hidden fist.

Id put wych weapons in with blast pistols sybarites and klaivex. Nice to have but take up poits better spent elsewhere.

Venkh wrote:

With all things being equal you arent going to get a net armed wych any where near my HQ or my hidden fist.

And that is quite a difficult thing to do, fleet doesn't just give you extra charge range it allows you to set up your charge as you want it (I'll often forgo shooting pistols to fleet when well within charge range to make sure models go where I want them). Bubble wrapping your fist or IC is a lot of work and thinking every move run and consolidate they make and the more they concentrate on that the less they focus on the rest of the game thats worth 10pts in anyones books.

If player skill is equal then the 2 factors cancel each other out.

Either he screws up and loses an attack or you screw up and waste 10 points.

I have to admit though that if i was going to take a wych weapon it would be a shardnet.

Tonight my Shardnets made a Nob almost redundant plus my Razorflails were instrumental in hacking down a Warboss and his Nobs. Situational but worked fine for me.

I like all three Wych weapons. I know the gauntlets are notoriously unreliable, but I have a tendency to roll well with them (usually 5 or 6 extra attacks!), so they've worked for me.

I like the shardnet. I know people think there no good but to me anything that helps get 1 less or + attacks against me is great. Also 8 verse 10 wyches I like bigger squads then smaller. This all personal opinion which mine the only one that counts If that was true we all be in trouble.

I always thought Wych weapons were quite good. Hydra gauntlets can let down a possible 7 attacks at Ws 4 I 6, which isn't to be ignored... Razorflails re role would/hit (can't remember which) which sounds pretty mean, considering Eldar have to waste a turn of Psychics. Shard nets reduce attacks, but I don't like them as much. Why is every one so down at them?

Shardnet can be more than 1 attack, every unit it is in base contact with.

I like them just because of that, easier to win CC and Sweaping advance. might not do as many wounds as it would with others, but you get less attacks on you, loose less, bigger chance to win CC and then get the SA, with I6 you are going to win SA most of the time. Also with Shardnet it is good to take down MC. Agonizer on Hekatrix, shardnet to reduce attacks of MC and go. I know we got enough MC so not what we need most, but even to take down IC or those damn Necron lords with a million scrabs around them. Reduce those motherf*** attacks that cant be saved.

I just feel Shardnet gives me the best variation, it benefits against infantary, MC, IC etc.

I think I am going to drop the weapons to be honest. That'll save me 40pts from just my 2 squads. That's almost a Venom.

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I think I am going to drop the weapons to be honest. That'll save me 40pts from just my 2 squads. That's almost a Venom.

WoooHoooo! so what you gonna do with "almost a Venom" when you dont have points for passangers??

I think Wych wepons are good, but they have special mission, shardnet is for traping, razorfrail for marines, hydra for anything with T3. Question is are you sure they gonna work or you dont wanna risk points.

My razorflailed girls(without agonizer->small game) went trought 3 squads with T4 thanks to wych weapons and re-rolls.

LOL, my lists dont currently have any - so I have to find points to try and fit one in when I get my new model.


From my games so far the wych weapons haven't given amazing results, adn not sure they have affected the result. So I'm going to try dropping them to help include a venom elsewhere.

I tried some shardnets in a 1500pts game vs Grey knights last night.

The scenario was no vehicles, no MC's so i reckoned that they would come in handy. (yes my bottom still hurts a bit )

The shardnets had an impact, but a minimal one. Thunder hammers and characters were my main target and i think they might have saved me one wych all game.

Each attack they remove will only hit half the time and wyches will dodge half of those. The impact is pretty minimal for 10 points.

So if i may refine my thread title a bit they arent useless, but I think of better ways to spend 10 points.