1750pts, New List, No Fun

Whaddya mean no fun? After finally playing a few pick up games in my local store and club I have learned my meta, highly competitive meched up lists. Sad but true. So it goes. The list below is designed to be as finely tuned as possible, a list to take against another highly competitive army and look to get a good result. Sky Serpents theme is there in essence only, Duke will be watching from the sidelines this time.

Only a few concerns, I must admit I am a bit worried about lack of anti infantry; the Reavers were shoehorned in with the remaining points. Anyway, let's go...

SKY SERPENTS 1750 NO SOUL

Haemonculus, 50pts

3 Kabalite Trueborn, 2 Dark Lances, Raider, Flickerfield, 156pts
4 Kabalite Trueborn, 4 Blasters, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 173pts
4 Kabalite Trueborn, 4 Blasters, Raider, Flickerfield, 178pts

9 Wyches, Hekatrix, Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield, 190pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 125pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 125pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 125pts
3 Wracks, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 95pts
3 Wracks, Raider, Flickerfield, Shock Prow, 105pts

3 Reavers, Heat Lance, 78pts

Ravager, Flickerfield, 115pts
Ravager, Flickerfield, 115pts
Ravager, Flickerfield, 115pts


Darklight: 27
Splinter: 60 from Venoms.
Kill Points: 23

Pretty damned optimized. Souless, but efficient as hell. enough DL shots to kill whatever kind of mech you might see. I would only be truly concerned about the lack of AI against horde armies.

Seems pretty airtight. Here's an alternative to keep it all-mech: instead of taking the Reavers, you could upgrade both Wrack squads to 5-man Warrior squads with blasters and give haywire grenades to the Wyches.

I still don't like the Reavers and think my balance between Raiders and Ravagers isn't quite right. Maybe dropping the Reavers and turning a Ravager into a Razorwing would be a better idea. I'd lose 2 Darklight shots and the Razorwing would be reserving and not straight away dedicated to anti tank but would clean up an infantry unit.

I've also toyed with dropping the Reavers and turning one of the Warrior units into another squad of Wyches. Maybe put something small on the Haemonculus?

Thoughts?

Raneth: Thanks for the suggestion, I've toyed with the idea of using the Reaver points to turn the Wracks into something else. My reason for the Wracks is while the soul of the army is slightly gone, it still allows me different avenues to explore for modelling purposes. I also think that 3 Wracks would survive better tumbling out of a Venom compared to Warriors. Haywires: I've always taken them and used them effectively once in 20 games...

Hurm...I was about to suggest some changes to get you Haywires...

My initial reaction is the 4 Man Trueborn could be made 3 man pretty easy at no particular offensive loss while giving you back a fair shake of points. That could let you turn the Reavers into something more useful, or take some more Wracks and get Liquifiers on them, or something else.

I would tend to point to you putting Wracks into Raiders and not Venoms, simply because during the early phases of the game they're more likely to be punished, and as noted are more durable than your Warriors.

I don't think a Razorwing is needed to deal with Long Fangs, the main goal there can be accomplished basically just as well with some focused Venom gatling fire. Also, remember, if your opponents are meched up, usually they're not running the largest squads around, a solid handful of Venoms are actually somewhat superior in that situation.

I'd also like to see the Haem at least end up with a Liquifier - don't just make him a useless KP for an FNP upgrade - he should be able to hurt stuff afterward, and you can free up 10 points easy.

Have you found much difference in going first or second vs who you've played so far?

+1 to thor and Raneth. Also remember horde armies normally rely on either CC (nids or orks) or few small range AT units (again... nids w/ hive guard and Orks w/ lootas) so Im sure your venoms should be able to take them out before they pose much of a threat, and then moving 12" makes you hard to hit by CC attacks. Hordes arent going to be the problem.

I am with the rest though about droping the Reavers. I love Reavers, but with only 3 they are kinda tacted in and are just an extra KP. Use those points to up everything (wracks and haemie are first guess... but some haywires and more shock prows are nice as well)

This is my first redraft of the list. I've trimmed the Trueborn, given the Haemonculus a weapon, dropped a unit of Wracks and invested in more Wyches. Thoughts?


Haemonculus, Liquifier Gun, 60pts

3 Kabalite Trueborn, 2 Dark Lances, Raider, Flickerfield, 156pts
3 Kabalite Trueborn, 3 Blasters, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 146pts
3 Kabalite Trueborn, 3 Blasters, Raider, Flickerfield, 151pts

8 Wyches, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix, Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield, 196pts
8 Wyches, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix, Agoniser, Raider, Flickerfield, 196pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 125pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 125pts
5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 125pts
3 Wracks, Venom, Splinter Cannon, 95pts

Ravager, Flickerfield, 115pts
Ravager, Flickerfield, 115pts
Ravager, Flickerfield, 115pts

No fun? Check my latest Kabal list then

I would try to give Venoms Night Shields, since this give them greater survivality vs. AT weapons with closer range (like ever-popular meltaguns or Ork Rokkits or Hive guards or...).

Not sure if Ravagers need FF.

A few thoughts/questions. More questions, as I'm still a little new to the DE-ness of everything.

One. You mentioned ration of raiders to venoms. Assuming you can get enough AT, why would you want more raiders? Unless you upgrade them with what's not available to venoms (or take more units then 5), the venom just appears to be the superior vehicle. So I'm curious for your thoughts there.

Two. Why the wracks? People seem hung up on them, and without liquifiers I really am not that interested. Sure, starting off with FNP is great...but they're a mediocre CC unit (better then warriors, given) but with no blaster.

Three. With as many DL shots as you're pouring out, why the second unit of wychs with haywires? It almost seens overkill.


My list has a 10m squad in a raider of warriors. Originally it was split into two 5mans, but I needed the points so...kinda cheated. what I'm finding is, I really like it. It seems largely ignored, as the wyches/venoms appear juicer targets, and the unit itself can do nasty and terrible things to an infantry line that's ignoring it.

I've even been trying to find the 10 pts to throw on a splinter rack for the twin-linked juiceyness.



Just my thoughts...given, I'm a player just coming back to the scene so grains of salt should be taken

Looking at the 2nd list, and considering it's for a highly mech'd competitive arena i would look at changing 1 wych squad to a 5 warrior/blaster in raider unit. I'd change the lance trueborns to 3 blasters and using the points from the wych to warrior swap I'd pile another blasterborn into each unit, dropping wyches from the other unit as required to get the points.
I'd swap transports around so that the 3 blasterborn units were riding in venoms, I like the duality that this unit brings.

If you want an example of a souless, no fun competitive list heres a link to my tournament list for this year.

https://thedarkcity.forummotion.com/t1990-2012-1750-tournament-list

It makes your current list look like a fluffy barrel of laughs. It's depressing given that everyone raves about how balanced the codex is that almost every successful tournament build relies on venoms and darklight to a massive extent.