1750pts Turnement list (competitive)

This will be my second turnement at 1750 so far since 6th ed.
Tbhj I like 1850 the best, as my list is more complete then, aswell as most turnements are 1850 here in the area.

Anyway, I have a central build of my list that wont be changed, however, I am considering dropping wyches this time around. I dont have a Heamonculi at 1750 and dont feel I get the best out of them without the paintoken, and they dont really do that much anymore... And Shattershard is just frak fantastic against Eldrad.

Anyway, here is the list I brought last time to 1750 turney and won with.

Your ideas about heamonculi and wyches. Much appriciated
Also considerating droping 2-4 Venoms for Raiders to get some more DL. As people have moved on from that "footslugging lists" more and more.

Baron Sathonyx

4x Kabalite Trueborn w/ 4x Blaster. Transport: Venom w/ Dual splinter cannon
4x Kabalite Trueborn w/ 4x Blaster. Transport: Venom w/ Dual splinter cannon

5x Kabalite Warriors w/ 1x Blaster. Transport: Venom w/ Dual splinter cannon
5x Kabalite Warriors w/ 1x Blaster. Transport: Venom w/ Dual splinter cannon
5x Kabalite Warriors w/ 1x Blaster. Transport: Venom w/ Dual splinter cannon
5x Kabalite Warriors w/ 1x Blaster. Transport: Venom w/ Dual splinter cannon
5x Kabalite Warriors w/ 1x Blaster. Transport: Venom w/ Dual splinter cannon
8x Wyches w/8x HWG. Transport: Raider w/ Dark Lance and NS

3x Beastmaster w/ 5x Khymera and 4x Razorwing flock.

Ravanger w/ 3x Dark Lance and FF
Ravanger w/ 3x Dark Lance and FF
Ravanger w/ 3x Dark Lance and FF

Not bad! Would you consider dropping 2 blaster tb (1 from each unit) to change of ravanger to a flyer? Also I don't think you really need the NS on the such raider if more points are needed.

You like is good

I wont change a Ravager for a flyer.

Our flyers have huge problems, and Ravagers are better heavy choice by far.
Our flyers actually cause us more problems than benefits they give us. But many people swear by them because they want the skyfire. But thats exactly the problem, it wont work comeptitive and will hurt you down the line. In an allcomers list that is. THere is ofcourse situations where it can work OK. But against most of the armys its a worse option.

First of as you want it to take out other flyers you want it to come inn AFTER other flyers. Now, that is very situational right? and if it come in before its dead before it does any good. and after it will survive one shooting round.

A ravager will get to shoot in Turn 1,2,3,4,5 whatever it survives. Now a Jetfither will get to shoot in 1-2 turns MABY...

Against a team like Necrons its useless anyway with that flyerspam.
The best way to take flayers is actually to play around it, and when the time comes, shoot DL weaponary at the flyer.

Looks good. Only possible change I would make is:

Remove the nightshields from the raider, and give it eithersails.

the reason is that they wyches will not be hiding out of range, because they cant shoot with anything but pistols and lobbed nades, they will be up in the opponents grill turn 1 threatening tanks and small units.

I do this often with 2 units of wyches, and nothing get an opponent out of his game plan faster than seeing a raider full of wyches behind his lines turn 1.

Reason for NS on wyches is to avoid bolters shooting it down during turn 1.

I dont want to have my wyches in behind enemy line in turn one. THey are there to take out AT, and AT that is above armour 12 that cant be affected by lances.

However while playing those armys that I actually need to Wyches for (I dont know if I will bring them) is againt armys that have stuff thant lances dont work on. And those have bolters, something that NS is there to protect me against. Now ofc NS has taken a hit from last 5th but I still think they are still decent.

So thanks for the C&C but I wont change to eithersails as they dont serve me any purpose really.

I don't really think the swapping of venoms would be necessary for more Dark Lances. I think you're AT is fine. If you were to swap a venom or 2 for a raider, I would go with a dissy loadout instead for use againse termy spam if you run across it. The extra ap2 shots would help thin out the crowd.

what about 5wyches in a venom with a 50 point humnc well 55 with a poison wepon

ThePhish: Dissies at comeptitive play isnt the way to go. problem with them is that they are half good two things, and that there is two options that are just better to pick. And there is really never to much AT in a DE list. With this list at best I can shoot out 11 veichles IF i am lucky as frak and within 18".

I can also at best take out two veichle's in CC. But the be realistic, I cant take out(shoot) more than 4 veichles in turn 1. As Venoms blasters wont be in range to shoot before turn 2. And with our fragile army we might be frak as loosing to much AT early on is how it usualy goes.

And when going to turnements there will be a few or even many that will go with veichle spam, and if I drop AT, (and our AT isnt that good, just do the math, its decent not more) then against a veichle spam I will loose.

I want those DL to be able to take out more veichles in Turn 1. As the problem for us DE is never ever AI. We have so much poison weapons its rediculess at times.

Rauky, yes that might be an option. But kinda of the reason I wanted Heamonc was to get Shattershard in to the army. But I am thinking about it If I drop some Venoms for Raiders, then I can drop a blasterborn and put those extra points in to a Heamon with Shattershard and 4 wyches. have to do some thinking and testing here.

...That's a good answer.

Why do you put FF on the Ravagers? Wouldn't NS be better because you already get a 5+ cover save while moving?

FF can still be more useful than NS in some circumstances due to a lot more weapons that ignore cover, and the fact that assaulting units now hit a vehicle on 3+ regardless of how fast it moved. (silly, I know)

Scarabs are death on a stick to vehicles.
CSM have weapons that ignore cover, along with the helldrake.
Any S4 unit that can get into cc can glance it to death.
CSM Hell Drake.
Vector strikeing MC's.
Anything that auto-hits/range 6" that the NS doesn't work against.
+....others....
did I say Hell Drake?

Granted, being as mobile as we are, we can prevent most things from being able to assault, but it's always a possibility, especially scarabs *shudder*, I hate those frak.

The FF also gives you that 5+ save in the event that you don't go first and can get shot Turn 1 if there's no Nightfighting, or the other team also has acute senses.

FF are still well worth the 10 points. NS is a better option than it was in 5th though.

ThePhish hits it spot on.

The last thing you want going to a turnement is to loose your Ravager turn 1 because you bought a couple of wyches or something insteed.

I always thought the FF gave you an invul 5+ - not a coversave?

That's correct, which is why it's better than the jink save since the jink save for moving is just a cover save. Invuln. save works against cc attacks, and it also works for dangerous terrain tests.

ThePhish wrote:

or the other team also has acute senses.

Yay for acute senses not letting models see in the dark any more!

...wait... what? It doesn't? Will have to read that when I get home.