Dark Eldar 1750 Points

Hello there! This is my first post on the forum, and I'm looking for some feed back upon my list, regarding how effective you would deem it in a competitive setting. I hope everything is laid out in a legible and generally satisfactory fashion. I might add, I have posted this list on some other forums, and I am interested to see the variation (if any) on the opinions of some units versus others. Anyway, enough of my rambling, to the the list!

HQ
Archon:
Venom Blade, Husk Blade, Combat Drugs, Soul Trap, Ghost-Plate Armour, Clone Field
Total: 150 Points

Elites
Three Trueborn: Two Dark Lances
total: 86 Points (x2)

Nine Bloodbrides: Three Shardnets
Syren: Agoniser
Raider: Flickerfield
Total: 247 Points
(Accompanied by the Archon)

Troops
Five Kabalite Warriors: Blaster
Venom: Second Cannon
Total 125 Points (x3)

Seven Wyches
Hekatrix: Agoniser
Raider: Flickerfeild
Total:170 Points

Fast Attack
Five Scourges: Two Haywire Blasters
Total: 130 Points

Three Reavers: Heatlnace
Total: 78 Points (x2)

Heavy Support
Ravager: Triple Dark lance
Flickerfeild
Total: 115 Points (x3)

If I'm right, this brings me to 1745 Points. If you have any ideas what to use for the last five points, it would be appreciated. I look forward to your responses, and views on my choices.
Thanks again.

I like it. Very similar to my list

with the exception of the trueborn, I assume they will be your sniper teams?
and great choice with the bloodride and archon synergy, it really is a great combo.

One thing that could become an issue though. are those 7 wyches.

7 is not a bad number, but the squad is out there all by itself. Your bloodbrides will be out IC/MC hunting with your archon. Unless your 3 warrior and 2 trueborn squads can give sufficient "cover fire" That one squad of wyches might struggle..

you could possibly swap those 2 reaver squads for a second scourge and haywire blasters squad. You'll lose some vehicle killiness, and gain more stunlocking target saturation (able to stunlock 2 vehicles at a time).

This could help make sure those long range AT vehicles dont swat your wych raider out the sky and eat them up.
This will also free up enough points to get 3 more wyches to fill the squad out to 10. Bringing you to 1749 pts

But either way, I like the list. I've never thought of having trueborn sniper teams, seems fun

My only cocern is for the Trueborn. With a crappy armor save and no vehicle they seem easy prey. If you can get them into cover you might be alright, but that also assumes you can make it to cover in time. Idk, I'm terrfified of foot slogging my DE (other than WWP), so I've never done it, so maybe it works better than I think it would.

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HQ
Archon:
Venom Blade, Husk Blade, Combat Drugs, Soul Trap, Ghost-Plate Armour, Clone Field
Total: 150 Points

If you're gonna run Husk/Trap at all don't bother with the Venom Blade. As it looks the GPA is also quite useless.

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Elites
Three Trueborn: Two Dark Lances
total: 86 Points (x2)

Cool.

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Nine Bloodbrides: Three Shardnets
Syren: Agoniser
Raider: Flickerfield
Total: 247 Points
(Accompanied by the Archon)

I'm not a fan of Bloodbrides; if I wanted close combat Elites I'd stick with Incubi. That said, this configuration is about the best around for Brides. Good stuff.

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Troops
Five Kabalite Warriors: Blaster
Venom: Second Cannon
Total 125 Points (x3)

Decent.

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Seven Wyches
Hekatrix: Agoniser
Raider: Flickerfeild
Total:170 Points

Cool.

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Fast Attack
Five Scourges: Two Haywire Blasters
Total: 130 Points

You don't see HB Scourges much anymore but I like 'em.

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Three Reavers: Heatlnace
Total: 78 Points (x2)

Meh. Decent enough I guess.

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Heavy Support
Ravager: Triple Dark lance
Flickerfeild
Total: 115 Points (x3)

Nice.

Thoughts:
Well-balanced list, even though you've made some odd choices and overall it's lowish on AT by my standards. Husk/Trap is unlikely to justify compared to basic Agonising; all the viable targets you'd gain should've been dealt with in another fashion anyway. Shardnets/Clonefield is cute enough to stick with, though.

With the Archon, I agree, drop the venom blade. Unfortunately, you can't use both it and the huskblade in combat, so it's pretty much a waste of points. The clonefield is funny, so I'd stick with it. It'll totally throw your opponent off when he realizes the archon DOESN'T have a shadowfield.

I'm with Allidor, I have nightmares about not giving any of my Dark Eldar units a transport. Three trueborn with dark lances looks awesome on paper, but its three dudes with wet cardboard for armor and a gun that's worth more than they are.

Bloodbrides are all sorts of killy, but it is a pricey unit, and in this day and age, having more troops win games. Or give up kill points, depending on how you look at it. It is a good set up for them, though.

That's how I run small warrior squads. In fact, that's how pretty much everyone runs small warrior squads. Thumbs up.

Personally, if you're going to run seven wyches instead of ten, I'd recommend a hydra gauntlet. Its like paying for one wych, but the possibility of having the amount of attacks as two. Like I said, just a recommendation.

With the scourges, run them a couple of times, see how you like them, and change them if necessary. I don't usually run them, mainly because I don't have the points.

As for the reavers, I run them in larger numbers because, well, they're wyches on bikes, and they die to shooting like wyches.

Ravager=good. Never leave home without them. If it suits you, take two, the exact same setup.

My thoughts aside, I'd still play it as is, just because it's different, and I appreciate variety.

Oh, and as far as a recommendation for those extra five points, I'd say a shock prow on one of the raiders. Because having a wet cardboard box become a ballistic missile that has the potential to blow up a land raider just fills my dark heart with glee.

Interesting list, here what I see right away.

Archon/brides, here is a 397 point "deathstar" riding about in a paper plane. I'd have concerns about this ever reaching it's target, it will be certain enemies #1 target and they should be able to bring it down easily. Other armies won't be phased by it, as it can do nothing against mech, if your moving flat out to get into position early. It needs infantry on the floor or a MC hanging about to do something, I see it as more of a tarpit than anything else and a very expensive one at that.

Trueborn, I never run this configuration. Static, too small and easily countered.

Blaster/warriors, I used these a lot until recently, I have given up on them. Recently I have been running haywire wyches and found them to be much more effective, you can get 5 for exactly the same as the warrior squad. Or you could dump the 3 warrior units and get 2 x 8 wych units in raiders with haywires for a more effective AT threat.

Wyches: 7 wyches are fine as a unit, thats how I run them, I'd try to get haywires on them though.

Scourges, a nice suppression unit, makes a good combo with wyches.

Reavers, I'd love to be able to make reavers work, but I haven't been able to yet. I'd suggest running these in tandom down a flank as a couple of harrassing units. If you can keep them alive and hidden they make great last turn objective contestors.

Ravagers, golden, don't leave home without them, take as many as you can.

It's a nice mixed list, but overall I feel it lacks AT threat and has too many points invested in a limited use deathstar. I really don't see what the brides do that a wych unit or 2 could be doing, whilst giving you more troops and options.

Oh wow. I have to say I'm overwhelmed by the quantity of the responses, thank you all very much. Sorry for the lateness of the reply, but I've been bogged down with school work of late and bar a few checks on my Ipod for responses I haven't been active in the slightest. Thank all of you for your patience. I will try to address all of you, and the issues you have with some reply or otherwise. Although, many of the problems are agreed upon by the majority anyway. I will do my best to compose some form of rebuttal and revel in the discussion. (Note I have had some experience with this list, so I don't mean to sound arrogant or ill informed with my replies)

EDIT:
I finished writing this quite late, so I'm sorry if I begin to ramble towards the end.

Let the rebuking begin.

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with the exception of the trueborn, I assume they will be your sniper teams?

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I'm terrfified of foot slogging my DE

Trust me, I was very skeptical of this unit when I first discovered it, and had similar worries to those of this board. I see these guys get flack from many, many boards. It seems understandable to an extent. They're a foot slogging *GASP* Low Toughness, low save, Dark Eldar unit of all things! The horror! I jest, but many take this stance on the unit as soon as they see them. I beg to differ. After playing with these guys I can tell you that they're great. For a start, they're amazingly cheap, and although they rely on cover, that's not really an issue in fifth. I will admit however, that without cover they will die almost certainly. but honestly, try and recount the last time you had a deployment zone that didn't have any cover at all. I bet you will be hard pushed.

The exception would seem obvious, you cry out with zeal, "But what about Dawn of War?" It does seem that they will ultimately fall flat in this instance. I can tell you that they still preform fairly well. Under the cover of night fighting, they're usually going to be fine to walk on to the table. Besides, with night fighting in effect the chances of them shooting anything even if they had been deployed, is minimal. I'm not saying these guys are the be-all, end-all of the AT scene, but they are definitely a solid choice. In a lot of cases they can even out preform Blaster born, having the advantage (In the majority of deployments) of shooting turn one. For how cheap they are in comparison to Blaster Born I feel they are a stellar choice. Especially considering that people are so scared of four lances (The reasoning and logic for the most part, remain unknown) the Blaster born can be shot down easily, coupled with the shorter range this effectively blunts them as easily as aforementioned Dark Lance True Born. I've played my fair share of games with Blaster Born, I like them, but they're a huge points drain. Not to mention that Blaster Born are a suicide squad, meaning that most likely (confirmed by my time playing with them) they will receive one turn of fairly good shooting, and then die. Not to mention the fact that the DL Trueborn have the first turn advantage in the majority of deployments. They're a cheap squad so I'm really not worried about giving them a transport, even if they will likely die. As I have previously mentioned, I believe them to be expendable so the thought of them dying doesn't really faze me.

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I'm not a fan of Bloodbrides; if I wanted close combat Elites I'd stick with Incubi

If I'm honest, I don't really fancy Incubi. They have a limited number of targets, and if those don't appear then they're a massive waste. The ideal target for them would be a tactical squad. A squad that relies on a fairly decent save and toughness is a perfect target for Incubi, as with the Klaives and I5 they can smash into them. But even then, if the power fist (which will almost definitely be there) still lives, we're about to lose quite a few Incubi. Even if we have an Archon with shadow field, I don't feel comfortable watching a Sargent have the opportunity kill my main Hq. If we throw any other targets into the mix we encounter even more problems. They don't have the number of attacks, or the toughness value to withstand hordes and although strength four, the power weapons are wasted. Against anything with an invulnerable save (i.e. Terminators) They can't kill them well enough, and then because of low toughness and no invulnerable, they die horrifically. Blood Brides, however are much cheaper, and much better at dealing with these chaps. They have the invulnerable to deal with terminators, and the weight of numbers and therefore attacks to deal with hordes fairly effectively also. I like to think of it as a system that I "Leave the rabble for the weak." By this I mean destroying tactical squads and others with splinter and using my Hq to character hunt, it just seems to fit. That and The BB Huskblade/ Soultrap Archon are the only combination of units that can effectively meet a deathstar head on. Preferably after they are weakened, my Archon and his brides can zip in and surround the Hq, and because of the shardnets and the clone field he can mash away on the Hq until he's done and dead, while the HQ most likely gets no attacks in return. All the while I'm able to shrug off the rest of the blows with a 4++ on my Blood Brides. Then when my Archon receives his first soul, he can almost certainly mop up the squad himself with his strength 6 instant death power weapon. Against a lot of lists they can really blunt a "deathstar" by making a mockery of it in CC. This ties down the threat, and prevents it from being threatening again any time soon. We can then focus our lances wherever they are needed.

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If you're gonna run Husk/Trap at all don't bother with the Venom Blade. As it looks the GPA is also quite useless.

I agree with you on the GPA, I may have gotten slightly over zealous with him. Frees up points though, so I'm happy enough. I disagree with the Venom Blade however. For five points it gives you some nice options, for example:
-Allows you to have some effect on hordes, if you are unlucky enough to be charged by one.
-Allows for combat to be continued against a unit, as we all know, Wyches die outside of close combat. So the ability to stay in combat for a turn longer and say, bring a transport up to embark into, is great.
-Takes opponents by surprise. This is really an add on to the above point, but it allows you to decide to finish combat in their turn, as you use the venom blade in your turn. Effectively catching your opponent completely off guard.
-Daemon Princes. Damn eternal warrior.

For five points, I'd say it's worth it. However you do lose an attack, and if you roll poorly with the Huskblade, none of the above are very consoling.

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You don't see HB Scourges much anymore but I like 'em.

I don't see enough of them, but I'm with you. I believe they're an under rated little gem. They add an element of suppressing fire on to an already mobile unit, the effect of which can only be achieved through close combat otherwise.

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I'd recommend a hydra gauntlet.

Every time you use a hydra gauntlet, a kitten dies.
I don't like the upgrade. On average, if I'm looking for more "killy" I'll take a razor flail, because on average they do better. But I'm taking the unit as a tarpit really, and so if I was to give them anything it would be the Shardnet and Impailer. The gauntlets are the only ones who fit with all the drugs I guess, but unless I'm running a Wyche cult, I'll stick with the other two.

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As for the reavers, I run them in larger numbers because, well, they're wyches on bikes, and they die to shooting like wyches.

I choose to run them in small units as that keeps them cheap and cheery. The way I see it is I will use them to boost down the flanks, with my main goal to hit something big and bad in the corner. I'll then get right up to it, shoot it dead (Hopefully) and then die. Again they're small and expendable, so I'm not worried about losing either unit.

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Because having a wet cardboard box become a ballistic missile that has the potential to blow up a land raider just fills my dark heart with glee.

This made me chuckle quite a bit, thank you. But I can see the effectiveness of having a shock prow lying around to tank shock units off of objectives in the last turns.

I think that about sorts all the responses I need to make I feel? I hope so at least. I know I've went against the grain here, but hopefully you can appreciate my view point on the manner. I don't mean to seem arrogant or anything, I simply want to counter-argue and show my reasoning (or in your opinion lack there of) for the choices I have made.

I think with the five points spare, the points from the GPA and the points from the syren and the agoniser in the BB unit have 45 points. I'm not sure what to do with that, any ideas let me know. Thanks again, I hope you enjoyed the wall of text heh heh. I look forward to any further discussion we have. I will most likely post a new list within a few days encompassing your suggestions, but in the mean time any more feed back is appreciated.

I agree with most of what you've said, especially regarding bloodbrides. That shardnet and clonefield combo is really really fun and works great. And yeah, that venom blade is there generally to help you be able to wound something before you can get that first soul.

Also, as sad as it is, the huskblade/trap archon doesnt work as well with incubi

They dont give him the time he needs to get that soul, and they dont support him in any way besides killing.

but yeah, I like your list.

By Khaine, that's a long reply...

On Lanceborn:
I agree with you that this unit shouldn't be overlooked; it's a nice concentration of DL shots for the unit's cost, even though it's annoyingly static.

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I've played my fair share of games with Blaster Born, I like them, but they're a huge points drain. Not to mention that Blaster Born are a suicide squad

Actually, they're not, or at least they shouldn't have to be. Granted, I field mine only 3-strong to dissuade attention following the same basic reasoning you did, but Blasterborn are lot more survivable than you make them out to be considering the high amount of AV target saturation in most DE lists.

On Bloodbrides vs Incubi:
Obviously you have strong convictions in regards to Bloodbrides; the same is true for me when it comes to Incubi so I don't expect to convert anyone here. However, there are a lot of combat mathhammer threads on this forum. Perhaps they would better stress the point I want to make. Aside from that there's little Brides can do that basic Wyches can't (albeit a wee bit slower).

Just for context: I field my Incubi big. You can't avoid every PF, but you can mitigate the effect. It's only when an enemy unit has access to multiple armor-ignoring weapons (Terminators, Sang Guard) or mass Rending ('Stealers, Harlequins) that I hesitate to throw them into the fray; a casualty or two doesn't hurt as much as it would most people (fielding them <7 strong).

On Husk/Trap, more specifically the Venom Blade:
This is a matter of philosophy, I guess. Lady Luck, mightiest of the Dice Gods, has always been a cruel mistress to me, and attempting these kinds of shenanigans has a tendency of her crushing my gonads and leaving me utterly defeated.

Case in point: you really never can count on rolling well, or poorly for that matter. The only certainty I see here is that you've paid top dollar to buff your Archon's combat potential, and then paid some more to nerf it.

Also, when surrounded by Bloodbrides, one hardly needs extra buff vs. hordes. As mentioned, if you have 5 pts spare, a shock prow would likely serve you better.

I notice lack of Haywire grenades on both CC squads, first Dreadnaught set to countercharge and those squads will be there untill they are dead.