NEW to the dark side

I am just starting out a dark eldar army. I just baught a book, battle force, and lileth hesperax. Seemed like a good spot to start.
I am asking for some advice, suggestions and what to buy next, ect. and all the good stuff for begginers. But as a side note i originaly played Tyranids, and still do. i have in tentions on buying 2 more battle force boxes and a few select HQs, along with vehicles. can folks help me out?

Welcome to the Dark Kin!

My first advice is to read the codex. DE is a very intriguing race, and there are many ways to play them. I would first find out what exactly draws to you DE as an army, and figure out how you want to focus that on the battlefield. Once you have your startup force, you can then start to skew your army towards your favorite theme.

After you do that its getting that startup army. My personal oppinion is the patiented SR 1500 pt Beginners Army. It is the following.

150-Archon w/ Huskblade, Soultrap, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Haywires
223- 9 Wyches w/ Haywires, 1 Shardnet, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Shock Prow
245- 10 Wyches w/ Haywires, 2 WW (so shardnet, gauntlets, or flails, your personal preference) Hekatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Shock Prow
190- 10 Warriors w/ Splinter Cannon, Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Shock Prow
190- 10 Warriors w/ Splinter Cannon, Blaster; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Shock Prow
78- 3 Reavers w/ Heat Lance
78- 3 Reavers w/ Heat Lance
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields
115- Ravager w/ Flickerfields

Total- 1499 pts

The makeup of this is 2 Battleforces, 2 Raider, 3 Ravagers, and an Archon Blister (or you could use your lileth as an Archon if you want) Its a cheap army for its size, shows the strengths of DE, and is pretty competitive to boot (its not optimize by far, but gives you alot of options). Its also a great template to build apon to fit your style of play more.

Well... I hope that is kinda what you are looking for

Shadow gives good advice. Really DE has a variety of ways they can be played. Start out with the basics as mentioned and go from there. You may find yourself leaning towards a Haemon. or 3 and a bunch of wracks and talos in other words a pain army. I personally like to get everything and then change it up.

Ive already looked over the units them selves and Im most fond of the hellions, reavers, and the homunculi "ancient weapons/wargear". kind of a self summerized speed and raw force. mostly the chain snares for simply going over units rather then combat

Sounds good. Hellions work well in largerish groups and the Baron. Also with him they are troops, as you probably now. Haemonculi are nice cheaper HQ. Take a look at the Talos for some AT and Cronos for pain tokens. I would like to see your list when you get one together.

ive already played witha couple on AB.

HQ-Baron sathonyx
HQ-homunculus ancient:Vb, Ag, SHSH, com
-homunculus:StP,AG, HexRifle,Hr
-homunculus:*duplicate*
T3-7x wracks:
all in a single raider:SP, sails. Chainsnares, envenomed blades, night sheilds, flickerfeild.

T1-19xhellion+1x heliarch:STP, SC
T2-20x kabalite warriors:1x blaster, 2x dark lance
FA1-8Xreavers:3xheat lance,3x grav talons;+1xchampion:AG
FA2-8X reavers*duplicate*; +1x champion:AG

heavy- voidraven:night sheild, flickerfeild, 4x shatterfeild missles

not overly complex. kalbites sit on home objective bomber and raider try to flank, reaver squads criss cross over units, and hellions steal or tie up units.


my base is playing them like i do NIds some one sits, someones fodder, and the bigger support.

First off Dark Eldar play nothing like Nids, and if you try to play them like Nids you will get blown off the table. We are too fragile and cost too many points to even come close. Secondly what you have picked is kinda... interesting choice, but personally I think it can be done.

Now lets move to your list... and well... I will just say it is bad. And easy mistake when starting Dark Eldar is to get rapped up in all our upgrades and options. The problem being is that you will find that having 40pt T3 5+ models, 95pt AV 10 tanks, and 130 pt T4 6+ FNP HQs are not going to make their points back. They will die easily and you will wonder "where did my army go?" Now thats not saying you cant have upgrades, but you have to pick and choose what works well with what you want. Let me go through your army list and show you were you have lost alot of points to extra useless equipment.

HQs: Baron is good, and a must if you want to use hellions. Im ok with him

Ok... The haemies. First off you cannot use two special weapons. As per the rules you will have to pick one or the other, and you dont get and extra attack because they are not a regular CCW and special CCW, or the same special CCW. So first off the venom blade and Agoniser are useless on the same model. As for the other upgrades... well most of the arcane wargear is useless or isnt worth its points. As to what you will have to try them out and see for yourself if they ever really work.

Also let me explain how easily raiders die. Ok... your a nid player right? what if I said that termaguants could kill our planes. Yes, termaguants kill our vehicles. Now think about this, what about weapons that are made to kill vehicles? They shred our vehicles like tissue paper. Now you understand why so many points on raiders are a bad idea? Most people just stick to flickerfields or nightshields, sometimes both. Everything else isnt really needed.

I am not a fan of hellions, but I will admit with some work they become decent. First off though I will say never take a Stun Claw. It has no purpose, as any IC it can grab will slaughter the hellions in close combat. Go for the Agoniser and call it a day. If you want to learn how to make Hellions work, I know Speedfreak did a decent tactica on them in our own Tactics forum.

Reavers should never be in combat unless they have too, so drop that arena champ unless you are absolutely sure you need that extra leadership. Also you shouldnt mix or match your weapons. Right now you havve 3 AT weapons, and 3 AI weapons. When you arent bladevaning, you waste those AT shots and the points you put into them. When you shoot a tank, you waste all those points put into making their bladevane better. Pick one or the other. Also I will say that is way to many reavers, as reavers should really only be used as a distraction unit. They dont have the toughness to stand up against a solid turn of fire directed at them.

Blob squads are a waste of points IMHO. You could easily put those points elsewhere and get way more effectiveness out of them. Also with no leader, all it would take is one asssault unit to get there, win by 2, and run of off the board. Bye bye over 200 pts.

That void raven is rediculously expensive. You are looking at a blotted AV 11 point sink. The point of the Void Raven is to be an alternative to the Ravager, while it does its job sorta well, putting any missles on it automatically switches its role from strictly AT to AT/AI. Again like I said with reavers when its not shooting at tanks, its wasting the reason you took it. When you arent shooting at Infantry, then why take the upgrades in the first place?

it was designed around my local games. alot of them are psykers so i thought the homuncilie special weapons would help if even one worked. simply removing a bunch of models in a single swoop would be nice but if it does nothing but a couple. i know i went a crazy on the fluffs but thats because all the choices are anti landraider potential. their becoming more and more common. the arena champs and such are for color. i thought having a "leader:" would add some spark to the game, i didnt see any real benefits. reavers are for skiming over fleshy units, aproximatly 5 out of 12 players play nids plus a couple have nids they can bring in. the helions i liked because of their stun claw, theirs certain players that focus on a singular charecture and use a flood of bodies to shenanigan wounds, if i can seperate him from his group maby itll better my odds.

for more competetive i have another list or two. but as said its still kinda nids style tactica

heres one with some competetive iintent.

lileth
4X hekatrix:haywire grenades
-venom: snares, Night Sheild

baron+20xhellions

5Xwyches:haywire grenades
-venom:snares, NS

5Xwyches:haywire grenades
-venom:snares, NS

5Xwyches:haywire grenades
-venom:snares, NS


10x kabalite warriors: 1x darklance, 1x blaster
-raider:snares, FFeild


10x kabalite warriors: 1x darklance, 1x blaster
-raider:snares, FFeild


2x ravagers:enhanced sails, 1x disintigrator canon(each),snares, flicker feild

8x reavers: 2x heat lance, 2x gravtalons



any better for competetive? small raider squads to divide fire and each capable of multiple land raiders(reason for so many haywire grenades)

Shadows Revenge makes some excellent points.

Stun claws are giving away points. You don't really want to be trying to kill ICs in hand to hand. We have poison out the ying yang for that and it much better to shoot the really tough IC to death than to try to out fight them, IMHO.

The best tank hunters in our codex are wyches. Equip them with haywire grenades and go tank hunting. Haywire does not care what your armor value is. You hit, and on a 2 or better, you are doing something. For transports, if the exit points are blocked off, on a wreck or explosion, everyone inside dies.

One of the big misconceptions is that wycjes are the super uber CC monsters. They are not. They are good for tying things up and letting hekatrix and/or succubus wear down the enemy with agonizers. Takes a turn or two, but they are good at it. They do not just run up and smash face nor are they intended to.

Anyway, there is a lot more in the forums, just start reading some of the tacticas and you will get a better grasp of how the army plays.

My 2 pain tokens.

forest90 wrote:

heres one with some competetive iintent.

lileth
4X hekatrix:haywire grenades
-venom: snares, Night Sheild

baron+20xhellions

5Xwyches:haywire grenades
-venom:snares, NS

5Xwyches:haywire grenades
-venom:snares, NS

5Xwyches:haywire grenades
-venom:snares, NS


10x kabalite warriors: 1x darklance, 1x blaster
-raider:snares, FFeild


10x kabalite warriors: 1x darklance, 1x blaster
-raider:snares, FFeild


2x ravagers:enhanced sails, 1x disintigrator canon(each),snares, flicker feild

8x reavers: 2x heat lance, 2x gravtalons



any better for competetive? small raider squads to divide fire and each capable of multiple land raiders(reason for so many haywire grenades)

Lilith is a great model, but I think she is far to expensive points wise for what she does. I prefer a succubs with agonizer and haywire grenades.

I run the opposite. I have 5 man warrior units with blasters in venoms and 8 man wych units with haywire grenades in raiders.

The problem with the darklance is you sacrifice mobility to be able to shoot it, and since my army is always on the move, I would never shoot my DL. I prefer blasters.

don't dual purpose you ravagers, go all DL. Its a much better option in this codex.

Drop the snares, gravtalons and ether sails. I think if you drop down a lot of the extras and liltih you will have enough points to get a 4th Kabalite unit with a blaster in a venom and maybe an agonizer for you Hellion leader . OR add hekatrix with agonizer to your wych units.

i already have 6 troops, and CC is the best tie up in my local meta. if anything id add more ravagers but i find pinning weapons extremely useful. so id have to keep the talons.

the problem with pinning weapons is that the average LD is 9 (sargents) on 2d6 the average roll is 7, so you have almost no chance at actually pinning them. On top of that fearless is abound.

On top of that like I said, when you are using those gravtalons, you arent using the heat lances, which means waste of points. When you arent using the gravtalons, then they are a waste of points. Also you have reavers well over 200 points, and they arent exactly the most resilient of platforms. A marine squad double tapping would whipe them out, and there goes 200+ points. Trust me on this and either run them with heat lances or run them with grav talons, when you do both its a waste of points that could of been used elsewhere.

Now for my suggestions.

3 Ravs with FF, always, it should be the first thing you do in your army, before even taking HQ is figure in at least 345 pts for ravs... If you have a lot of 'Nids in your local meta, toss dissies on one of them, that should make relatively short work of 'Nids (though the experiences I've had playing as 'nids since thats what I originally started out as was that a decent DE army would make short work of them, and that was only playing against marines). Take a sarge with agonizer OR vb (look through the forums for the debate on that if you want) in every melee squad. If you find yourself up against a lot of monstrous creatures that have 6T or less, maybe an archon with a huskblade and soul trap would be a good choice, since that is potentially a very, very strong archon. IF you insist on using RJB's, break it down into 3 squads of 3, so you can maximize your versatility.

And versatility is really the key. Make your units mobile, and able to handle a assortment of threats. Lots of poison shots, a bit of bog, and as much AT as you can muster.

Also, if you want a deathstar, might I suggest Vect in the Dais with a 9 BB (w/3sn), It's about 700 pt's but ive had good experiences with it, as have others, so I've heard.

Quote :

I have 5 man warrior units with blasters in venoms and 8 man wych units with haywire grenades in raiders.

bingo!

Or do a homun as a hq and take 3 man wrack squads for cheap venoms/fnp obj sitters

Here's the 1500 list ive been using to stomp face with

Total Roster Cost: 1498

1 Haemonculus + Liquifier Gun x1
3 Kabalite Trueborn + Blaster x 3
1 Venom + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

2x 3 Kabalite Trueborn + Blaster x3
1 Venom + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

5x 3 Wracks
1 Venom + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

2x Ravager + Night Shields + Flickerfield

1 Voidraven Bomber + Necrotoxin Missile x3 + Night Shields + Flickerfield

It's tough, but a rather boring list... but I can win with it, and it's pretty standard DE... Another list I do replaces 3 squads of wracks with wyches in raiders...


edited out hostile tone, lets keep in friendly here - Baron T

Ruke wrote:

3 Ravs with FF, always, it should be the first thing you do in your army, before even taking HQ is figure in at least 345 pts for ravs...

agreed 10000000000%

Quote :

And versatility is really the key. Make your units mobile, and able to handle a assortment of threats. Lots of poison shots, a bit of bog, and as much AT as you can muster.

also true but dont confuse versatility with multii tasking like RJBs with HL and Caltrops. Each unit should have a specific task.

Quote :

Also, if you want a deathstar, might I suggest Vect in the Dais with a 9 BB (w/3sn), It's about 700 pt's but ive had good experiences with it, as have others, so I've heard.

Use this one myself but you only need a raider. saves about 180 points Dias = suck

Quote :

Here's the 1500 list ive been using to stomp face with

Total Roster Cost: 1498

1 Haemonculus + Liquifier Gun x1
3 Kabalite Trueborn + Blaster x 3
1 Venom + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

2x 3 Kabalite Trueborn + Blaster x3
1 Venom + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

5x 3 Wracks
1 Venom + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

2x Ravager + Night Shields + Flickerfield

1 Voidraven Bomber + Necrotoxin Missile x3 + Night Shields + Flickerfield

looks like a tough lil list but i would seriously think about replacing the voidraven with RZJ. Free missiles is much better.

Quote :

looks like a tough lil list but i would seriously think about replacing the voidraven with RZJ. Free missiles is much better.

I have this awesome tendancy to roll 1's for pen against armor 10 (not to mention armor 12 when it comes up). So knowing that I'll still be able to eek out a glance when that comes down is worth the 30 pts I spend on missiles.

i kinda figured the FF was inportant since EVERY THING negates armor saves latley, so any invuln is better then no save at all. but i do have a new list idea, gota drop about $200 into it but 1k to start off in the new touney (14th) i should be alright. but some feed back first.

HQ- lilleth
-8X wyches + 1X hexatrik(9total): bolt pistol, agoniser
>raider:FF, snares, splinter rack, shock prow

10X kabalite warriors: 1X blaster
>raider: splinter rack, FF

10X kabalite warriors: 1X blaster
>raider: splinter rack, FF

ravager:FF
ravager:FF

its for a team game and im still looking for a partner, the one in mind is a regular eldar player.

hmm didnt know we had bolt pistols lol. i know a typo.

i woudl lose the splinter rack on the wych raider as they are never going to be firing from inside and get a shardnet into the unit.

i'd also get rid of the racks on the other raiders to get cannons into the unit. over all think its more cost effective.

i might also lose the prow and snares on the wych raider in an attempt to get enough points for them to get haywire grenades

ill see what i can do, but i think if i may explain my whys, the suggestions can be more specific.


first the splinter rack on the wyches was just to spend points since i dont expect them to fire more then once. the scenerio being a tervigon surounded by termagaunts sitting on an objective is simply too much fodder to CC through. but CC would be the most effective way to gain control. thats also why i took the shock prow, i figured i could advance with the unit in and take a few pot shots ( with rerolls) turn two disembark lilleth and us the raider to tank shock to clear the path. wyches in side the raider still disembark turn 3 and with everything else dead or tied up should be able to hold the objective.

the kabalites raiders have the rack for the intent of remaining inside the transport till its disabled or they can control a second/thrid objective. (dipending on the scenerio) for 5 pts i can put them in double tap range and get rerolls. seemed like a good idea. when i went for the haywires originaly it was cheaper for the pistol then the lot having grenades. since wound allocation say its divided amongst the units, survivability is in favor the last minute bail out.

i dropped the hexatrik gave the 9X wyches haywaires and 1X net and impaler. dropped the splinter racks on their raider aswell and gave the two kabalite squads each 1X splinter cannon. it leaves me 7pnts, 37 if i drop the other two racks,prow, and snares.