First Dark Eldar List: 1500 points

This is my first Dark Eldar List. Any advise is welcome. The group I play with (15-20 players) is Ork, IG, grey knight, and space marine heavy. Trying to take advantage of the army's versatility with this list. Thank you for your help.

List 1: (1494)

Haemonculus: 60, Liquifier
Haemonculus: 60, Liquifier
Haemonculus: 60, Liquifier
Wyches (x 9): 163, Hekatrix (Blast Pistol, Agoniser), Razorflails, Haywire Grenades
Wyches (x 9): 163, Hekatrix (Blast Pistol, Agoniser), Razorflails, Haywire Grenades
Wyches (x 9): 163, Hekatrix, (Blast Pistol, Agoniser), Razorflails, Haywire Grenades
Kabalite (x 10): 115, Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Kabalite (x 10): 115, Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Kabalite (x 10): 115, Blaster, Splinter Cannon
Raider: 80, Dark Lance, Night Shields, Flickerfield
Raider: 80, Dark Lance, Night Shields, Flickerfield
Raider: 80, Dark Lance, Night Shields, Flickerfield
Raider: 80, Dark Lance, Night Shields, Flickerfield
Raider: 80, Dark Lance, Night Shields, Flickerfield
Raider: 80, Dark Lance, Night Shields, Flickerfield

Each of the three Haemonculus will ride with the wyches providing a pain token.

lose the blast pistol on the heka, it will do her no good, for she will be runing and charging most of the time.
if you want anti infantry, with a little added anti tank, use 5 warriors with a blaster in a venom with dual cannons. that should free up some points. Since you will be up close with your wyches, you wont utilise your nightshields. And if you take my advice, you will put your warriors in venoms. You may want to add night shields, but its not necessary.
you need a punchline in your army as well. Incubi, preferably with an archon.

What you made isnt all that bad, but there are standards to types of lists. Do you want to shoot, or melee, or go "hybrid"?
If you want to shoot, forget the wyches, if you want to melee, forget the warriors, if you want to "hybrid", examin some of the lists on this forum.

I would advise, an archon with 4-6 incu, in venom or in raider, if the latter, use a haem as well. Add two squads of wyches, add 2-3 ravagers, scourges or reaver, add warriors in venom, spice it with trueborn with blasters n a venom.

i dont have much time now, since its time to go to work, but if noone else says anything in 2-3 hours, i will continue with a more detailed list

[Got Ninja'd by Enfernux.]

First of all, Welcome to the Dark City, mjc.

The first thing I would be to drop the Blast Pistols from each Hekatrix. Yeah, they are nice, but that has found 45 more points.

Just a suggestion, something that is nice against most things, if you could find the points to buy a couple of Ravagers with Magnetised weapons then this could be extremely useful. Disintergrators are nice against hordes, and even Space Marines if the Dice Gods are smilling upon you, or the extra Dark Lances could be good for taking down armour or nasty Power Armoured foes.

Out of the two I think the best option would be Dark Lances. I know that you have six Dark Lances with the Riaders, but if you drop the Warrior qquads down to five man squads in Venoms with the extra Splinter Cannon upgrade, you should have enough points spare for a couple of Ravagers.
If you do this then from the Venoms you should have some more fast moving Anti Infantry while the Ravagers provide angry Lance fire.

These are just some quick thoughts and they should keep the essence of speed and aggressive firepower.
Cavash.

Simple, fun, can work, but I wouldn't approve this as a beginner list because the lack versatility, even after u tried to bring it.
Where are the Venoms and Ravagers? These two units are what DE makes really good to play for a beginner.

I would suggest you to kick 1 Haemo + 1 squad of Wyches (500 points of melee are enough at 1500 points for my taste), than bring all the Warriors to 5 with Blaster, put them into a Venom and for the now gained points, buy Ravagers. This gives you a lot of strong and different units, that let you get a feeling about what the DE can and what they can't.

You're list is playable, don't get me wrong, but I feel that it doesn't offer the deadly feeling you want as a newcomer to DE.

Some thoughts on the points of these two ninjas:

- Archon + Inccubi : Feel free to try them out, but they are a big no no for me. To deadly in CC while to easy countered by e-weaponry combined with a massive point investment. I dislike them, but you might want to try them out on your own.

- Disintegrators on Ravagers: Not in a million years. Stay with Dark Lances. Sure 4 dead Marines each Ravager sounds good, but what offers 3 Dark Lances, one of the deadliest weapons we own, more cost-effective than a Ravager.

I've not played with my new DE force yet, but the general advice I'd give a newcomer is to try a more varied list to see what works for you and what you like. This list 'spams' 3x everything, but you might find for instance that you prefer to go melee - in which case you'll want to drop most (if not all) of the warriors in favour of incubi, beastmasters, wracks, or more wyches. So I'd suggest play around with the different options, perhaps at smaller levels, before you decide you want to commit yourself to all of this.

ok, that went fairly fast...i mean my work

sry Cav, i did learn ninjutsu for 8 years

now...le'me zee wut we have...
first of all, i dont recomend disints on ravagers, only if you reallyReallyREALLY know what you are doing. For beginners, thats a no-go. As for the ravagers themselves, they are good, cheep, and usable, can pack a good punch. I DO recommend them for a beginning list. I personally prefer Razorwings and Voidraven bombers, but needs differ accordingly to each gaming group.
The advantages of disints: heavy 3 - multiple shots - s5, ap2, basically wounding most of your opponents on 2s and 3s, and if they dont have cover or invuls - our most hated enemies but also our greates saviours - they are going to drop dead for every 3s you roll for hit and 2-3s you roll to wound.
The disadvantages of disints: you give up 3 shots to any chance to kill a Land Raider. THAT is a big thing.
The advantages of ravagers: a Very mobile platform for almost our most strongest weapons...void lances would be better, but meh...they can move 12", shoot all 3 weapons, or move 24" to gain a 4+ cover save from everything, or to ram an enemy vehicle. That would give you an s10 ram power, add shock prow and 10+ if it were possible - i do believe 10 is the max str you can get :S
But his ramming takes a lot of practice to measure out the perfect distance, and should only be done if you lost all 3 weapons.
And now, the down side: you are av 11, wuhhu...but open topped. A glancing hit has a chance to wreck you. 105+upgrades of points for a very versatile mobil AT platform is VERY cheap, but very fragile in deed. One lascannon shot that gets you and you can virtually kiss the vehicle good nightmares - depengind on dice god and lady average. Remember the ram i told you about? Only attempt it if you dont have any more weapons on the vehicle? Its going to blow far sooner than to utilize that last resort ability.

My advice: stay away from enemy fire and only shoot nasty infantry, like termies, if there are no tanks available to shoot. For beginners: recommended.

My take on the VRB and the RWJ is subjective. I like them for they are not open topped, can move 36", have missiles, which are load of fun ^^ and they have lances to. But my composition is very expensive, for just taking them is +40 pts compared to a ravager. For me, they work, for others they dont, we are back again to the gaming meta of your group, and that can change if someone decides to take something else for a try.
The advantages of voidravens and razowrings: they are veryveryveryveryvery fast. As i said, not open topped, so they have +1 to survive any hit they take. They are a major distraction, even if they shot away all their missiles. I usually take Razorwings with only flicker fields, if i can spare the points, a nightshield and upgrade the weapons to disintegrators. This can take care of some nasty infantry...like broadsides, termies...basically anything with a better save than you have...basically all other armies and its missiles are a load of fun. You can move 12" shoot all the missiles and all the disints at a single enemy group, mostly wiping them out, but your missiles arent that strong so be sure to aim them at weaker squads - bad armor save mostly. AFter that, its just an annoying disintegrator platform, that isnt open topped.
the Voidraven...now thats expensive the way i use it: implosion missiles and flicker fields. 275 pts....ouch thats a lot aint it? But it gets rid of termies quite effectively. After that: void lances and void mine. Void lances are s9!!! Better chance to kill everything, and the voidbomb...well, you just gotta love it

and now, the down side: the first and foremost is their points cost...its insane and they only have two lances per model, and as i said, i up the razorwings weapons to disints, just a personal preference. But in this way, i lose the ability to crack open armor.

Advice: play some games with ravagers, if you think you got the hang of it, try out these models - i run them 1RWJ2VRB - if you think it can do some damage.

Going on to the troops. If you want to shoot, your best choice is to venom spam. 5 man warriors with a blaster have a AT threat, and mostly kill everything they shoot at with the blaster. The rest of the weapons are standard. The venom has a built in flicker field, so you only need to spend 10 pts per transport to get 12 poison shots at a target infantry - poisoned weapons count as defensive, so at a 12" movement, all can be shot. This is a scoring composition and costs less than a weapon platform warrior squad.
Down side: they are fragile. Thats the price we pay for being so awesome The only thing that gets you lances cheeper is a ravager, but if you filled out your heavy slot and want to shoot lances, but also want to be ble to hold objectives: warriors.

Wyches...my gawd i love those gals - yes, all my wyches are gals - they are a good tarpit unite that is scoring, have AT potential, are cheep...but if they get shot at, the most lamest guard squad can shoot them down. You need to stay in cover and CC all the time if possible with these ladies, or they will be taken off pretty quick. But in cc, they are awesome. Not as good as Sanginari Guard, but they can tie them up for one or two rounds, whyile your other unites decimate the remainders of the opposing army. They have a 4+ incvul save in CC, they have special weapons to augment them in cc, they have drugs that boost them in cc...mostly
Ad a haem - as you did - to each and every squad of these gals, and they will rock your world...or your opponents infantry. Dreadnought? Btch Please, Haywire Grenades are a marvel. You can glance any vehicle to death, so aside from the lances, this is your prime tool to hack a Land Raider...
The problem is geting them close enough. That takes either good positioning, what you may or may not be capable of, duno your gaming history, OR it takes a unite to draw fire from them, so they can move closer. This distracting unite are the Grotesques. Man are they durable, compared to the rest of your army. All ap 1 and 2 shots fired at them mean they arent shooting at your transports. And thats good.

on troops, its your decidion to use assault troops or warriors, i usually go with 1 squad of warriors for every 2 squads of wyches i have. Choosing which will work...well, depends on the meta again.

Elites. They are fun.
4 trueborn with blasters - referred to as blasterborn - in a venomw ith dual cannons...wrecks havoc. The other cheapest way to get lance weapons to the battle. Yes, they are only 18" range. But combine an awesome amount of AT with a good amount of AI. For 173 pts per composition, its good. If you play a shooty army, 3 ravagers, 3 blasterborn, the rest with warriors and place an hq in there, probably sliscus, or a random archon with blaster to do some damage. If you arent going shooty, 1-2 squads are enough, but as the saying goes: you cant have enough darklight weapons.
incubi are your shock troops, they cut through most enemy squads like a hot knife through butter...a hot powerknife more likely. But they are expensive and should only charge termies, if they have a chance to kill them. If not...they are going to die. Tactical squads, IG veterans? Jumm...munchies. Their downside is that they cost a lot, and they usually need to be fielded with an archon to be effective..or Drazhar.
Put 4 of 'em and an hq in a venom or 5-6 and one hq and a haem in a raider, and they will start new oceans of blood, wherever they step. Using 8+a haem+an archon is overkill, expensive, and their only real job is to hack open termies...but in the meantime, munchies. They need at least 2 pain tokens to do good against termies, so you only need to decimate 1 squad and then aim to termies and slaughter everything along the path.
Grotesques...insanely durable compared tot he rest of the army, can take a ton of punishment, but they need someone with a leadership calue or they are going to run the first time they lose an assault or take enough casualties. Their downside is their relatively high points cost, but other than that, they are good. If you plan on taking a coven list, take urien in to consideration as well, for 5 pts/model of grots, they get +1 str.
wracks. I would only consider taking them in a coven list, but thats my preference. They are a good assault unite, in a coven list they will be troops, so they will be scoring as well, but will die to power weapon attacks.

I'm running out of steem, so a smoke and I'll continue
Ok, im back...
Fast attack...havent used it much, but scourges with haywire blasters are a good option, or if you think you are lucky, you can give them heat lances and suicide deep strike them to take out an enemy vehicle. If they survive, those s6 ap1 shots will make short work of any infantry.
A nother viable option are the reavers. They are blazing fast, can damage squads they go through, can get a 3+ cover for turbo boosting and can have heatlances to. In comparison to scourges they are more survivable, more mobile, but can take less special AT weapons per model count.
A nother option would be the beast masters...i dont run'em so cant realy comment on that. They seem good, but with no battlefield experience, i will leave them out.

And now, the HQs. Archons are the most used, though some prefer a succubus. This is all a what you want in your army type of thing, both are good, but i prefer the archon - sticks and stones.
Haems are a feel no pain merchant, you give them to assault troops, or in coven lists, you combine them to make your wracks and grots better. In any other army that they are taken, give them liquifires and stick'em with the cc squads. I also like to take other arcane gear for them, for it can make a difference, but that is again personal preference, i usually go with Casket of Flensing, Shattershard, Dark Gate. Sorry if the end got ruhesd a bit, but i think you get the general idea. You need to decide what you want to do, shoot or cc, but i think a combination is better.
1 archon with shadowfield, agoniser, phantasm gl, combat drugs
3 incubi with at least liquifires
5 incubi
raider with flicker fields
2*8wyches1heka with spec weapon, agoniser and hwg
2* raider with flickerfield
5 warriors with blaster in venom with dual cannons
3 ravagers with flicker fields

this should be the base, add and subtract squads if you like, but this is a good main theme.
Note: others prefere blood brides, who are an elite choice. They are almost as good in cc as incu, but the difference is very little. The difference: less incubi do aprox the same amount of unsaved wounds as bloodbrides do with more models but for the same points cost. It is preference again. I use incubi, if that makes a difference

Thank you everyone for the input. Here are the changes I made thus far to the list. Please let know what you think.

List 1: (1499)
Haemonculus: 80, Agoniser, Liquifier
Haemonculus: 80, Agoniser, Liquifier
Haemonculus: 80, Agoniser, Liquifier
Wyches (x 9): 148, Hekatrix (Agoniser), Razorflails, Haywire Grenades
Wyches (x 9): 148, Hekatrix (Agoniser), Razorflails, Haywire Grenades
Wyches (x 9): 148, Hekatrix (Agoniser), Razorflails, Haywire Grenades
Kabalite (x 5): 60, Blaster
Kabalite (x 5): 60, Blaster
Kabalite (x 5): 60, Blaster
Raider: 70, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Raider: 70, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Raider: 70, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Venom: 65, Splinter Cannon
Venom: 65, Splinter Cannon
Venom: 65, Splinter Cannon
Ravager: 115, Dark Lances x 3, Flickerfield
Ravager: 115, Dark Lances x 3, Flickerfield

Haemonculus: 60, Liquifier
Haemonculus: 60, Liquifier
Kabalite Trueborn (x 3): 81, Blaster x3
Wyches (x 8:): 136, Hekatrix (Agoniser), Razorflails, Haywire Grenades
Wyches (x 8:): 136, Hekatrix (Agoniser), Razorflails, Haywire Grenades
Kabalite (x 5): 60, Blaster
Kabalite (x 5): 60, Blaster
Kabalite (x 5): 60, Blaster
Wracks (x 3): 30
Raider: 70, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Raider: 70, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Venom: 65, Splinter Cannon
Venom: 65, Splinter Cannon
Venom: 65, Splinter Cannon
Venom: 65, Splinter Cannon
Venom: 65, Splinter Cannon
Ravager: 115, Dark Lances x 3, Flickerfield
Ravager: 115, Dark Lances x 3, Flickerfield
Ravager: 115, Dark Lances x 3, Flickerfield

Total - 1493 Pts

I think you'll find this list a bit more versatile, with more AT AND AI overall... I've played this list before and it worked out rather well for me, I think that many others here would vouch for it as well...

Ruke's reccomended list is the way to go. (cept I am in the Shardnets are better than Razorflails or Hydra Gauntlets camp)

Me too, but I stuck with the Razorflails as that is what he had in his original and updated post.

Thank you Ruke! I'm about to purchase the models and this is the list. Just a couple of questions for everyone:

1. Should I switch out to hydra gauntlets or shardnet & impaler?
2. Is the soul purpose of the wracks to be a cheap scoring unit and to provide another venom?

Thanks again!

mjc wrote:

Thank you Ruke! I'm about to purchase the models and this is the list. Just a couple of questions for everyone:

1. Should I switch out to hydra gauntlets or shardnet & impaler?
2. Is the soul purpose of the wracks to be a cheap scoring unit and to provide another venom?

Thanks again!

1. It's up to you in my opinion. You most likely won't field Wyches without a Haemo, which means you only need 9 out of the 10 you get in a Box. Assembling one with Razorflails and one with Shardnets makes you able to try out both without losing something! But as for me, I love the shardnets and would never field something else.

2. yes and yes. (they are actually kinda okay-ish vs T3 squads and can bind stuff without e-weaponry for somewhat long in combat)

Thank you SleepyPillow. That is what I'll do. Can't wait for the first game. Thanks again everyone and look forward to reading all your posts.