BR9: The Black Buzzards VS GK Razorspam - 1500pts

Count Adhemar wrote:

I've just grabbed 6 reavers for £18.63 on eBay, so quite pleased with that. Gives me 9 in total now and I should get another 9 in a month or so.

Nice, That was a steal! I would give the nine a go first and see how they mesh with your current army, before getting more though.

(so my GW propaganda got to you in the end!)

Count Adhemar wrote:

I've just grabbed 6 reavers for £18.63 on eBay, so quite pleased with that. Gives me 9 in total now and I should get another 9 in a month or so.

Mushkilla's battle reports may cause a sudden spike in Reaver Jet Bike prices!

You could well be right ESE!

Mushkilla - your propaganda kind of worked but I refuse to pay GW prices for the damn things so getting 6 for about 75% of the GW price of 3 was a pretty good deal!

Great battle report. Even against the toughest of lists, you persevere, I love seeing that, as it quite clearly displays how important it is to also think on your feet. Theorycrafting only goes so far, even the soundest lists I have played have failed miserably while rather shoddy lists have shown surprisingly good results.

The Eye of Stelek has spotted you, pull that ring off your finger!

FFS, you outgrind shooting GK list, basically taking most of the opposing army shots in the face and surviving to do the killing.

Thats something new.

I have just aquired aother 3 RJB. Once painted I will be running 2 units of 6 as a 'lite' version of ur list. And will learn how to use them the hard way!

Mushkilla, if someone only had 18 bikes, would it be better to run three squads of six, or two squads of nine and another fast attack (most likely Haywire Scourges) at 1500-2000 points?

Basically, are 6-man squads viable at higher points, or do they just die too easily to concentrated fire?

Azdrubael wrote:

FFS, you outgrind shooting GK list, basically taking most of the opposing army shots in the face and surviving to do the killing.

Thats something new.

I have to agree not the most subtle of strategies. But not too unreasonable, reavers are tougher then marines in some respects (4+/FNP or 3+/FNP). And FNP wyches with covers save are pretty damn handy (of course the FNP part was ignored by most of his army).

Skari wrote:

I have just aquired aother 3 RJB. Once painted I will be running 2 units of 6 as a 'lite' version of ur list. And will learn how to use them the hard way!

What I have come to realise in my last two games is whatever format of reavers you run, they bring something nothing else in the Dark Eldar army can: the ability to contest any objective on the board from almost any location on in a single turn. I think objective denial has always been at the core of wining objective based games with DEldar and Eldar. So in my opinion the main advantage of the "light" version is you get two fast contesting units for less.

somerandomdude wrote:

Mushkilla, if someone only had 18 bikes, would it be better to run three squads of six, or two squads of nine and another fast attack (most likely Haywire Scourges) at 1500-2000 points?

Basically, are 6-man squads viable at higher points, or do they just die too easily to concentrated fire?

The most important thing about keeping reavers alive is target saturation, if you fly them ahead on their own they will get pummelled regardless of squad size. In my experience the 6 man squads play more cautiously until there is an opportunity to take out a week unit or amour, keeping them alive until the end of the game is really handy for contesting (see above comment). The advantage of larger squads is a combination of survivability and flexibility, as they are more effective at bladevaning and assault. They are also more efficient when it comes to pain tokens (more models are affected).

If you are unsure why not give both a try and see what you feel more comfortable with.

Hope that helps

Im also considering the duke to assist with drugs.

Skari wrote:

Im also considering the duke to assist with drugs.

Same here, this is my Duke list I have yet to try:

HQ
Duke - 150
Succubus, venom blade - 70

TROOPS
10 warriors, splinter cannon - 100
Raider, Disintigrator - 60
8 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 121
Raider, Disintigrator, Aether sail - 65
8 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 121
Raider, Disintigrator, Aether sail - 65


FAST ATTACK
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249

Total: 1499

Drop a warrior (to help the duke fit in the raider if need be) and then add night shields to the warrior raider. Just a thought.

So I went to YTTH just now to see what y'all were talking about and it made my blood boil with rage. The guy at the end said DE can't shoot. REALLY???? Grats on your temperance mushkilla, I would have raged at the (insert swearword here) very classy of you.

Link to this YTTH please, never heard of it but i want to read it just to say " OH NO HE DIDN'T" and then to say "BURN" when mushkilla owns him...diplomatically.

Skari wrote:

Drop a warrior (to help the duke fit in the raider if need be) and then add night shields to the warrior raider. Just a thought.

I normally try and get away with the warriors starting on foot next to their raider with the Duke, then he leaves them and hops into the wyches raider, it doesn't sacrifice movement but can leave them vulnerable on the first turn (chaos daemons come to mind). I just really like that 3+ splinter cannon. I might run some trueborn instead. Either way I'm hoping the V2 FAQs will be out before my next game, and they will actually be useful and give us some new options in terms of list building (court being 0-5 instead of 1-5 would be nice, AP2 husk blades, and a change to the 1 roll on the drug table... not getting my hopes up).

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

So I went to YTTH just now to see what y'all were talking about and it made my blood boil with rage. The guy at the end said DE can't shoot. REALLY???? Grats on your temperance mushkilla, I would have raged at the (insert swearword here) very classy of you.

Thanks. Like I said before I don't agree with Steleks methods but he is a good tactician. So his advice was still greatly appreciated. Not to mention the last thing I wanted was for TDC to look bad.

alexwellace wrote:

Link to this YTTH please

Count Adhemar posted the link on the first page, hard to see links when they are not highlighted though, so I will post it again for those who missed it:

YTTH

First off, great list as usual. I've been a fan of jetbikes for so long, it is exciting to see them get their due. I'll probably rarely ever have more than one unit (once I finish this coven list, I'm sure the money won't be there...), but I can tell you one thing-- you've sold me on venom blades and their use has been spreading.

Out of curiosity, did someone break YTTH? Been trying to check it out for awhile now, and the page never loads. They really should not upset TDC....

Roc wrote:

but I can tell you one thing-- you've sold me on venom blades and their use has been spreading.

Venoms blades are something I completely overlooked until they made power weapons AP3. To think they were just as cheap and good in 5th and I never used them.

I really dislike for this to be my first post ever on this forum, but I thought it a little too humorous for me not to post.

urbandictionary(dot)com/define.php?term=YTTH

Shbur wrote:

I really dislike for this to be my first post ever on this forum, but I thought it a little too humorous for me not to post.

urbandictionary(dot)com/define.php?term=YTTH

Welcome to The Dark City! And yes the urban dictionary definition of Stelek is very humorous (you have to give him credit for being infamous enough to actually have an entry).

I have to agree with you there! However, I've been following your's and Skari's batreps for some time. They've been most helpful in my transition from WHF to WH40k. I still play my Wood Elves very frequently, but the Dark Eldar casts are simply to cool to not paint! Any idea when your next batrep will be? I have been waiting earnestly.

Shbur wrote:

I have to agree with you there! However, I've been following your's and Skari's batreps for some time. They've been most helpful in my transition from WHF to WH40k. I still play my Wood Elves very frequently, but the Dark Eldar casts are simply to cool to not paint! Any idea when your next batrep will be? I have been waiting earnestly.

Glad they have been helpful.

Wood elves are similar to DE shooty lists in a lot of ways. You must be a good tactician if you can wins with that old WE dex in 8th!

My next game is on Thursday, so I should have a report up by Friday. It's against a Salamanders, the last list my opponent emailed me was:

HQ
Vulkan - 190

ELITE
10 Sternguard, 4 combi melta - 270
Drop pod - 35
10 Sternguard, 4 combi melta - 270
Drop pod - 35

TROOPS
10 Marines, flamer, multimelta - 160
Drop pod - 35
10 Marines, flamer, multimelta - 160
Drop pod - 35

FAST
Land speeder, heavy flamer, multimelta - 70
Land speeder, heavy flamer, multimelta - 70
Land speeder, heavy flamer, multimelta - 70

HEAVY
Thunder fire cannon

Total: 1500

Lots of cover ignoring stuff in there, it should be a fun game.

Oh man, should be a good one! My shop is mostly a FLGS (if I used that correctly), so winning with my WE isn't necessarily hard. 8th edition did kind of nerf them (way watchers scouting rule, true line of sight, ranked skirmisher formation, etc.) but if you execute the movement phase well with WE, you can easily beat those horde units everyone seems to love to run. Alright, no more hijacking your thread!

Shbur wrote:

no more hijacking your thread!

No worries.

PS: It's all about the movement phase.

I am intrigued by your list and am going to give a shot to a similar one at 1750pts. maybe playing two units of bikes +helios with baron + duke for drugs and some heavy support perhaps ravens.

i was wondering how would you build your list for 1750 points...
(if you had any models available).

Glad you find it interesting and want to experiment with it at a higher points value.

I answered a similar question in a message the other day regarding 1800 lists. This is what I came up with. AA is one of the concerns.

LIST A

HQ
Duke- 150

TROOPS
8 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 121
Raider, Aether sail - 65
8 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 121
Raider, Aether sail - 65
8 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 121
Raider, Aether sail - 65
8 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 121
Raider, Aether sail - 65
9 warriors - 90
Raider, splinter racks- 70

FAST ATTACK
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249

TOTAL: 1801

Notes: Gives you 5 solid troop choices, the raiders could go for either lances or dissies depending on your preference. The sails are not mandatory.

LIST B

HQ
Duke- 150

TROOPS
9 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 133
Raider 60
9 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 133
Raider - 60
9 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 133
Raider - 60
9 warriors - 90
Raider, splinter racks- 70

FAST ATTACK
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249

HEAVY SUPPORT
Razorwing, flicker field - 155
OR
Void raven, flicker field - 155

TOTAL: 1791

Notes: Gives you 4 solid troop choices, the raiders could go for wither lances or dissies depending on your preference. The razorwing should probably have lances for AA duty (but dizzies make it a great anti infantry unit). The void raven would be the more specialised AA choice with its better armour and S9 lances.

LIST C

HQ
Baron- 105
Haemi - 50

TROOPS
10 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 145
Raider 60
10 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 145
Raider - 60
10 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire - 145
Raider - 60
15 Hellions, Heliarch, power spear/stunclaw - 255
3 wracks - 30

FAST ATTACK
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade - 249

TOTAL: 1802

Notes: Not much armour saturation, could be a problem. The wracks give you a cheap scoring unit and mean you can start the hellions with two tokens using a pain token shuffle.

Trimming those down to 1750 should be straight forward,

Personally I will be experimenting with Talos/cronos in my next 1500 point game.

Hope that helps!

thanks for the quick answer.

"rant commence"

i am disappointed by the msu for now, since trueborns rarely ever shoot anything at the first turn, and generally when the vehicles explode, with str 4 hits on passengers now, you most probably have to take two ld test, one for pinning, one for casualties. so i want to try a different route.

i don't use too many hellions about 12-14, (multiples of 4 +baron to avoid lds by casualties) and is the only unit that actually do stuff. drugies as they are, would be glad to have duke on board. you think wyches play better?
i own 18 bikes, so i would like to try first a list with two units, and see how it goes.
my meta has lists with enough flyers, so i wonder if i should try to counter them, or not bother (i see you don't really bother and you did fine against the necron, but how about 2 gk storm ravens with psybolt blotters, assault cannon, multimelta, 2 blasts a turn, which can hover instead of moving out of the table).
i like the last list for 2 pain tokens on hellions, but then i don't have the duke, and again this trick is situational.
btw, i don't really care about having warriors, since most of the army is flatting out and duke is better off with a unit of wyches.

to sum it up, do you think either baron+helions or duke is not really worth it? should i bother with flyers? if no, even when they have enough firepower and are even hovers that transport/or not, nusty stuff? (in that case i am thinking of adding two void ravens)