1850pt Competitive Wych Cult

Hi guys!

It's been AGES since I last posted something here but with a tournament comming up in my neighbourhood, I thought it was a good idea to ask for some advice comments on my list-draft.
I promise I'll start posting again since my army has to be painted for the tournament so a lot of updates should be comming up

HQ - 240
Succubus (90)
agoniser; haywire grenades.

Duke Sliscus (XXX)

*Please do not post exact point costs for special characters, copyright infringement is frowned upon by GW - thanks, Kwi

Elites - 161
3 Kabalite Trueborn (161)
Venom (Night Shields; Splinter-cannon); 2x Dark Lance.

Troops - 844
8 Wyches (216)
Hekatrix (Agoniser; Phantasm grenade launcher); Raider (Dark Lance; Night shields); Hydra Gauntlets; Haywire Grenades.

8 Wyches (216)
Hekatrix (Agoniser; Phantasm grenade launcher); Raider (Dark Lance; Night shields); Hydra Gauntlets; Haywire Grenades.

8 Wyches (206)
Hekatrix (Agoniser); Raider (Dark Lance; Night shields); Hydra Gauntlets; Haywire Grenades.

8 Wyches (206)
Hekatrix (Agoniser); Raider (Dark Lance; Night shields); Hydra Gauntlets; Haywire Grenades.

Fast Attack - 196
6 Hellions (96)

4 Reavers (100)
Heat lance.

Heavy Support - 405
Ravager (125)
Night shields; Flickerfield.

Ravager (125)
Night shields; Flickerfield.

Razorwing Jetfighter (155)
Nightshields.


I've only played 6th edition 2 times so there might be some useless things in there...

I know that because of the Duke and the Trueborn the list no longer counts as a real wych cult, I'll explain why I picked these below.

I'm using the Duke for the first time because a friend suggested me to do so because of the extra d6 when rolling for combat drugs. I don't really know if he would be any good though... He doesn't fit the wychcult theme, he has to start with the trueborn, I don't have a model for him yet (not a real problem since I've got loads of bits, but still...)

Second problem is the Venom with the trueborns. I need extra firepower and this unit gives me 2 Dark Lances and 2 Splinter Cannons which are highly mobile for just 161pts.

I gave 2 wychsquads a phantasm grenade launcher because they can help me out during an assault and because I had some points left.

Because of the Jink save I got rid of all my flickerfield, except on the ravagers because I want to be able to keep them stationary from time to time. (don't know wheter that's a good idea or not)
All my vehicles have nightshields because I have found that they come in real handy in a first turn shooting.

That sums it up I think, I'm playtesting it on thursday


C&C are more than welcome!

Grts
Nico

Reavers should always be taken in multiples of three. Generally speaking. Also four is a very bad number as you still only need one casualty to force a leadership test.

I don't think the succubus needs haywire grenades as she will be running with wyches who have them.

The Hellions in fast attack what do they achieve? You could drop them and get more reavers.

Also the trueborn make no sense, the dukes special rule is wasted on them (as they only have one splinter weapon). Why not drop them, then you can start the Duke with a squad of wyches. You don't need Warriors/Trueborn in your army to run the duke (see the FAQ).

Hope that helps.

Thx for the advise!

If I drop the trueborns I lose 2 DL and 2 SC so that dramatically reduces my firepower...

Grts
Nico

Here's my advice:

Drop:

Trueborn and Transport -161 really hampers the Duke thanks to his deployment restrictions and just puts him at risk while you try to shuffle him
HWG on Succubus -5 you might throw it once a game, and that's the only time you'll notice it
Hellions -96 unfortunately they add nothing except maybe help getting Line Breaker
Flicker Fields on both Ravagers -20 you can move them half an inch to get Jink
Night Shields on Jetfighter -10 see below

Add:

5 Wyches, HWG, Venom, Splinter Cannon, Night Shields +135
5 Reavers, 2 Heat Lances +134 as one unit of nine, or maybe three units of three, but then you might try to get Blasters instead
PGLs on the other two units +20

This will result in the same long-range anti-infantry, more anti-infantry over all potentially, more survivability for your Wyches against overwatch, and more reliable anti-tank (although maybe a bit more risky).

A note on Night Shields: Night Shields are fantastic. But you don't need them on everything. You have to ask yourself, what are you using that vehicle for, and where will it be during the game?

Ravagers - Take them.
Support Raiders - Take them.
Venoms - Take them.
Rush Raiders - Take them on half of them.
Aircraft - Don't take them.

Ravagers, Support Raiders (ones like Gunboats or rescue raiders with Trophies for instance), and Venoms like to stay back a bit, and sometimes operate best on our back line. These vehicles rely heavily on Night Shields, and should always have them.

Aircraft will almost never get any use out of their Night Shields. You have to move 18 inches minimum, which means you are either towards the middle of the board, or you have no targets because you flew towards a corner. All weapons can hit you if you go toward the middle, even with NS, and if you go to a corner you will be useless, but you'll also still be in range of the stuff that actually scares our planes (fortification guns, Riflemen, Hydras, etc.). Honestly, Flicker Fields are much better on aircraft, because it makes it so you never have to Evade (since that is the only way to get a Jink save on a zooming Flyer), which is nice. If we can find points for that, it might be worth it.

Rush Raiders (i.e. Raiders with CC units or otherwise short range units) don't need Night Shields after the first turn. So how many do you need to keep them safe? Assuming you have LOS-blocking terrain, you really don't need any. However, let's say you don't, or at least you don't have much to work with. If you deploy two Raiders closer to the board edge, and two raiders in front of them, only the front two really need NS (as the back two are 6 inches further back anyway). So, I'd make the following change:

Drop Night Shields on two Raiders -20
Add Enhanced Aethersails to two or four Raiders +10/+20

This let's you get up close and personal your first turn, making up for any deployment restrictions (Vanguard and Hammer & Anvil with really poor terrain placement for instance). If you take two EAS, you can spend the extra points on a Flicker Field for the Jetfighter.

Sorry that was a lot, I just wanted to explain my reasoning before I made the suggestions, so you would understand why I suggested it.

Also, don't ever think that the Duke doesn't fit into a Wych Cult. He'd probably be a guest of honor to all their gladiatorial events! Sure, pure Wych Cult lists don't take advantage of everything he has to offer, but he still gives them a huge boost and provides anti-2+ in combat. Also, he is great with Reavers to help them avoid Hypex.

Thanks for the great advice!

I changed the list a bit to end up with a total of 1848pt.
I did everything that was suggested but I made the wyches in the venom bloodbrides since I had some spare points...

HQ - 235
Succubus (85)
agoniser.

Duke Sliscus (xxx)

Elites - 150
5 Hekatrix Bloodbrides (150)
Venom (Splinter cannon; Night Shields); Haywire Grenades.

Troops - 834
8 Wyches (211)
Hekatrix (Agoniser; Phantasm grenade launcher); Raider (Dark Lance; Enhanced aethersails); Hydra Gauntlets; Haywire Grenades.

8 Wyches (211)
Hekatrix (Agoniser; Phantasm grenade launcher); Raider (Dark Lance; Enhanced aethersails); Hydra Gauntlets; Haywire Grenades.

8 Wyches (206)
Hekatrix (Agoniser); Raider (Dark Lance; Night shields); Hydra Gauntlets; Haywire Grenades.

8 Wyches (206)
Hekatrix (Agoniser); Raider (Dark Lance; Night shields); Hydra Gauntlets; Haywire Grenades.

Fast Attack - 234
9 Reavers (234)
3× Heat lance.

Heavy Support - 395
Ravager (115)
Night shields.

Ravager (115)
Night shields.

Razorwing Jetfighter (165)
Splinter cannon; Flickerfield.


Grts
Nico

No further comments?

Grts
Nico

Personally i think the agonizer is over cost due to the nerf, but it's a matter of taste imo. Some people like the traditional Agonizer i find I am more inclined to use cheaper weapons (VB or PW of some variety, got on the Power Lance kick recently), especially if that means all your wych squads can get PGLs, asside from that looks good to me.

There is some talk about experimenting with LD attacks (raider grenades and Grav Talons) but I've not seen it in play yet so can't say it's a good idea or a bad idea at the moment.

1) If you're going to go with Bloodbrides, you should find points for a Syren/PGL combo. They're just as weak as regular Wyches to shooting, and you're spending points on their ability to cause more damage in combat, so you want them charging units. PGL gives them defense against Overwatch. And, if you're going to get a Syren, you might as well upgrade her weapon. Since she has more attacks than a Hekatrix, she should be your first one to get an Agoniser.

So, add Syren, PGL, and Agoniser for 40 points. Add PGLs to the other Wych untis for another 20.

Drop all the Wych Agonisers to Venom Blades.

Now, if you already have all of the modeling done on your Wyches, or if you really love Agonisers (and who could blame you), then that's fine. These are the changes that I would make though, if I had the opportunity.

2) Alternatively, you could just change the Bloodbrides to regular Wyches, Drop the Splinter Cannon on the plane, and that should be enough points to at least get the PGLs on the other two 8-wych squads.

3) Or, you could just drop a Wych from two squads (the ones that get the ICs) to get the PGLs.

Lots of options, but really, I'd like to see you get PGLs on every Wych unit. There will come a time (if it hasn't already happened) where you're going to have a Wych unit torrented/Overwatched and you'll say "If only I had Stealth!" <---- Trust me, it's happened to me.

Quote :

Drop all the Wych Agonisers to Venom Blades.

Yess.

Thx for the comments!

I'm still figuring out how I will adapt my list because I love the agonisers and all the modeling is done on my wyches...
On the other hand, I think I should be able to find myself some more parts to make 4 extra hekatrixes, I'm only missing 2 PGLs.
If I drop the agonisers, I lose my power weapons (which proved very effective in the past) but I get a 2+ poisoned per squad! Tough choice if you ask me!


Grts
Nico