BR12: The Black Buzzards VS IG Mechanized - 1500pts

This week I present you the charge of The Light Brigade! (This report is actually a double bill! Scroll down to the bottom of this page for the rematch)

The armies:

Black Buzzards (DE)

HQ
Succubus, venom blade
Succubus, venom blade

TROOPS
9 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire
Raider, Disintigrator, Sails
9 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire
Raider, Disintigrator, Sails
10 wyches, Hekatrix, venom blade, PGL, Haywire
Raider, Disintigrator, Sails

FAST ATTACK
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade
9 Reavers, 3 heat lances, arena champion, venom blade

Imperial Guard (IG)

HQ
Company Command Squad, 4 plasma guns
chimera, heavy flamer

TROOPS
10 Veteran Squad, 3 plasma guns
chimera, heavy flamer
10 Veteran Squad, 3 plasma guns
chimera, heavy flamer
10 Veteran Squad, 3 plasma guns
chimera, heavy flamer
10 Veteran Squad, 3 plasma guns
chimera, heavy flamer
10 Veteran Squad, 3 plasma guns
chimera, heavy flamer

FAST ATTACK
Vendetta
Vendetta

HEAVY SUPPORT
Griffon
Griffon
Griffon

Mission: Purge the Alien
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
Night fight on first turn: No
First turn: Imperial Guard
Warlord Trait DE: Master of the Ambush (sigh the sooner we get out own warlord table the better)
Warlord Trait IG: Strategic Genius (re-roll reserves)
Drugs: Serpentin (+1WS)

Deployment:

The Imperial Guard deployed on the deployment line, forming a blockade with his chimeras. The Dark Eldar deployed on the top flank, with the reavers deployed out of mortar range, and the raiders out of sight.

Turn 1(IG):

The IG army moved back, whilst firing a barrage of mortars at the two raiders, two scattered, however one hits and managed to strip a hull point off each (ordnance weapons roll two dice and pick the highest for penetration).

Turn 1(DE):

Everything turbo-boosted/moved flat out up on the top flank, making sure to stay out of heavy flamer threat rang.

Turn 2 (IG):

Both the vendettas came on and managed to destroy both dissies on the two raiders (R4 and R6). Everything moved back. Griffon (GM3) fired at the reavers(R5) hitting and killing three, they passed their pinning test. Griffon (GM2) missed completely. Griffon (GM1) fired at reavers(R2) but missed and scattered onto a raider(R6) but failed to penetrate. All the Chimeras' multilasers fired at the raiders leaving two raiders (R4 and R6) wrecked, and exploding raider (R3) killing seven wyches, the survivors passed their pinning tests. The plasma vets of chimeras (C2,C3,C5 and C1) manage to kill a single reaver at long range.

Turn 2 (DE):

The smaller reaver squad (R5) moved forward and fired it's heatlances destroying a chimera, five veterans died in the explosion, they passed their pinning test but failed their leadership test and ran off the board (Do you get a pain token for this? We decided no). Reaver squad (R2) moved up and destroyed a Chimera, the explosion killed six veteran, they passed their pinning test, but failed their leadership test (but didn't run of the board). The third reaver squad moved up, and finished off the surviving veterans earning them a pain token. The wyches ran forward 8, 10 and 12 inches (fleet is awesome). The reavers used their assault move to reposition.

Turn 3 (IG):

The Vendettas flew off the board. Everything shuffled back. A Griffon mortar fired on the wych squad behind the wrecked machine killing nine of them, the surviving hekatrix passes her pining test and her learship test. Another mortar got a direct hit trying to snipe my warlord, killing six wyches, fortunately she passed all her look out sir rolls, they passed their pinning tests. The final mortar was aimed at the large reaver squad without a pain token, however it scattered hitting a single reaver from another squad but failing to do any damage. Four scatter lasers fired at the warlord succubus and her wyches killing them including the succubus, despite them going to ground (earning three kill points). All the vets and the command squad fired into the smaller squad of reavers killing them outright.

Turn 3 (DE):

The reaver squad without any pain tokens destroyed a chimera, killing five in the explosion and charging the survivors slaughtering them all and earning a pain token, before consolidating 6" away to stay out of flamer range. The other reaver squad fired at the commands squads chimera destroying it and killing two members of the command squad in the explosion, they were pinned. The lone hekatrix charged into the wreckage of the chimera to engage the survivors of the command squad, slaughtering them and earning a pain token. The succubus and her two wyches moved into the area terrain ruins.

Turn 4 (IG):

The Vendettas came on lascannons blazing and managed to kill three reavers. Mortar fire killed four more, taking out one heatlance. Both reaver squads passed their pinning and leadership tests. The chimeras moved forward so that the vets could rapid fire, one finishing off the hekatrix and the vets rapid fired the reavers killing two.

Turn 4 (DE):

The reavers moved forward one squad destroying a chimera, the explosion killing six vets. The reavers charged the survivors, killing one, the guardsmen pass their leadership test. The other reavers glanced, and stunned the last chimera, and used their eldar jetbike move to spread out.

Turn 5 (IG):

No night fight. The griffons, sniped the heatlance reavers, and the rest of the reaver passed three pinning tests, however the vendettas entered hover mode and blasted the survivors off the board. The reavers in combat killed two vets the survivor was cut down, earning their second pain token

Turn 5 (DE):

The reavers destroyed the last chimera, and charged the surviving vets killing them all, earning their third paint token, they used their consolidate move to spread out as best they could. The game ended. Dark Eldar Victory!

DE 14 (12 units killed, kill the warlord, line breaker) IG 10 (8 units killed, kill the warlord, first blood)

Conclusion

That was one of the most adrenaline pumped games I have had since, fighting the GK razorspam list.

I underestimated a factor of my list that I had never really considered until now, it's only 11 kills points. Compared to the guard list which was 17, two of those were very hard to obtain because of the nature of flyers. I think this really gave me a nice edge, on turns 3-4 I could have actually withdrawn my whole army and played cat and mouse until the game ended as by that point I had the lead.

I think what helped me the most in this game was all the advice Shadows Revenge gave me in the TDC chat: Keep the IG player moving as IG players often have a sit back and shoot mentality, so making the make movement decisions puts them under pressure and can make them make mistakes. Attack one flank and try to roll down it. Reavers seem to die to anti infantry fire, so present other threats that die to anti-infantry. Shadow also detailed how the Guard Player would most likely deploy and play, and I have to say he got it spot on.

As for my list it was poorly built totalling at 1493 points. I had decided I was focusing too much on lists, and decided to just play what I liked playing (the standard Buzzard template, three squads of reaver and three raiders with wyches). The extra wyches didn't make a difference against vehicles exploding and large blast weapons. I probably should have spent the 70 points I had left on three more reavers (getting the squads up to 10).

Finally MVP has to go to the Hekatrix that survived, the wrecking of her raider, followed by a mortar shell that killed her whole squad and then managed to charge 9" through difficult terrain, survive overwatch and slaughter the Command Squad.

Thanks to all those who gave me advice in the Beating Imperial Guard Topic and my Army List Topic.

Hope you enjoyed the report!

Dude, awesome job on the win! I'll be honest, almost all the other battle reports I read the first round or two, skim the rest, and then read the conclusion...this one I was on the endge of my seat hanging on each and every word.

Good game!

Get in amongst the guard army - like you did - they hate that!

You'll probably be happy to know that you do not have to take pinning tests with reavers because bikes/jetbikes cannot be pinned. Don't have the rulebook to hand so can't give you a page number but it's stated in their unit type description.

Septimus wrote:

You'll probably be happy to know that you do not have to take pinning tests with reavers because bikes/jetbikes cannot be pinned. Don't have the rulebook to hand so can't give you a page number but it's stated in their unit type description.

Wow I never realised that. That's awesome, and there was me thinking I was so lucky passing all these pinning tests at -1 leadership! Thanks, that's a really handy rule to remeber.

Septimus wrote:

You'll probably be happy to know that you do not have to take pinning tests with reavers because bikes/jetbikes cannot be pinned. Don't have the rulebook to hand so can't give you a page number but it's stated in their unit type description.

How have I missed this too? YES!!

Great report MK. I've recently started playing against an old friend of mine that moved back into town that uses a similar army(plasma Mech-vet parking lot) and am always glad to see them go down

Good thing he didn't have a pair of hydras, those things would have probably screwed you over although the griffins did a lot fo dmg too

Nice win!

Amazing report as always!

Mushkilla wrote:

Warlord Trait DE: Master of the Ambush (sigh the sooner we get out own warlord table the better)

While I agree that would be nice, I don't expect it happening until we get a new codex, which won't be until next edition I'd imagine (unless they completely change their business model). However, I have to ask, why do you even roll on the Strategic table? The only one I really view as useful, especially for your list, is Night Attacker. Since you have a 16% chance to get that, or a 50% chance to get Night Fighting. I'd consider rolling on the Command table, since a majority of your army will be within the 12" mark or at least close to it.

Mushkilla wrote:

The smaller reaver squad (R5) moved forward and fired it's heatlances destroying a chimera, five veterans died in the explosion, they passed their pinning test but failed their leadership test and ran off the board (Do you get a pain token for this? We decided no).

According to the FAQ:

"Q: If a unit with the Power from Pain special rule destroys an enemy
unit, does it gain a pain token no matter how the unit was destroyed?
For example the resultant explosion from shooting at a vehicle wipes out
an enemy unit. (p25)
A: Yes."

Since a unit being wiped out by an explosion counts, and it is commonly held that a unit being shot and forced off the table by morale counts, it is safe to assume that a unit taking morale checks as a result of an explosion and then falling off the board would count as well (hence the "no matter how" in the question).

Mushkilla wrote:

Hope you enjoyed the report!

Of course!

A great game, I have a new found respect for griffins!!

I got beaten to the punch re the pain token FAQ answer.

Good to learn about the immune to pinning as well!

Quote :

Since a unit being wiped out by an explosion counts, and it is commonly held that a unit being shot and forced off the table by morale counts, it is safe to assume that a unit taking morale checks as a result of an explosion and then falling off the board would count as well (hence the "no matter how" in the question).

I would really like it if this was true but I don't believe it is. A falling back unit only counts as wiped out when the game ends.

I'm sure I would have a very difficult time trying to convince someone that their unit has been wiped out just because they ran off the table.

Quote :

Good to learn about the immune to pinning as well!

Only "downside" is that they can't gtg either (also in their unit entry, p. 45).

Thanks for all the kind words!

Kowaldo wrote:

Good thing he didn't have a pair of hydras, those things would have probably screwed you over

I think Hydras would have caused more damaged to a conventional DE lists, as they eat through raiders and venoms. They are not really a big problem for reavers as they are only BS1 against them, sure they ignore jink, but they won't ignore regular cover and thanks to skilled rider and their mobility getting a cover save on reavers is not that hard. They also won't ignore FNP. On average a hydra will kill one reaver a turn if they are not in cover/don't have FNP. A griffon will kill 41% of any reavers its blast touches (assuming a 4+ cover save for moving).

somerandomdude wrote:

I have to ask, why do you even roll on the Strategic table?

I normally roll on the command table, however I assumed my wyches would not make it alive. So opted for strategic, as it has more game changing effects, like night fight, -1 to enemy reserves and stealth/move through cover (ruins).

Massaen wrote:

A great game, I have a new found respect for griffins!!

They are rather frustrating to play against as at only 75 points if you try to take them out you are wasting fire-power that could be focuses on vet chimeras or more important targets. Re-rolling the scatter dice also makes them somewhat reliable compared to other guard blast weapons, and in a lot of cases a direct hit from a S6 AP4 blast is more effective then a scatter from a S10 AP4 blast. Ordnance barrages give -1 to pinning tests, which might not seem like a lot at first, but when you have three of them firing at you, you will start failing tests sooner or later. Not too bad against light armour either with the roll two dice pick the highest for vehicle penetration. It has really come into it's own this edition.

Septimus wrote:

I would really like it if this was true but I don't believe it is. A falling back unit only counts as wiped out when the game ends.

I had a look into it. And the rule book says they count as casualties when they are removed, I would assume that means you get pain tokens for them.

"If any model from a unit that is falling back moves into contact with a table edge, the entire unit is removed from the garne as casualties, as it scattersarrd flees the battle." - BRB page 30

Charge of the Light Brigade is right!


Well done! Learned alot from the comments people have posted for you (No pin test on bike! WIN!)
Good job keeping him on the run!

I am assuming that you didn't run up a touch slower T1 and keep behind the terrain because you were staring down the barrels of those Griffs?

Blind_Baku wrote:

Charge of the Light Brigade is right!

If I had retreated/withdrawn after getting a VP lead it would have been an even more accurate re-enactment!

Blind_Baku wrote:

I am assuming that you didn't run up a touch slower T1 and keep behind the terrain because you were staring down the barrels of those Griffs?

Spot on. Went as fast as I could without getting into flamer/rapid fire range.

Mushkilla wrote:

The smaller reaver squad (R5) moved forward and fired it's heatlances destroying a chimera, five veterans died in the explosion, they passed their pinning test but failed their leadership test and ran off the board (Do you get a pain token for this? We decided no).

Are people sure about this? I thought you get a pain token when the enemy leave the table because of failed leadership caused by your army.

mug7703 wrote:

Mushkilla wrote:

The smaller reaver squad (R5) moved forward and fired it's heatlances destroying a chimera, five veterans died in the explosion, they passed their pinning test but failed their leadership test and ran off the board (Do you get a pain token for this? We decided no).

Are people sure about this? I thought you get a pain token when the enemy leave the table because of failed leadership caused by your army.

It's already been commented on in the thread and we came to the conclusion that he should have had a pain token.

Sorry, but I'm still not convinced - I hope you guys are right as I play DE myself and all that... but how about this scenario:

You shoot or cc an enemy unit and it fails its LD test but it does not run off the board immediately - so, say 2 turns later the enemy unit falling back keeps failing their LD tests and actually runs off the board.

Suddenly out of nowhere the DE unit (2 turns later), which originally caused them to run away, munches enemy souls that have been alive and kicking, running away for 2 turns?

I don't have the rulebook or the dex nearby until tomorrow so can't check for myself right now.

Quote :

"If any model from a unit that is falling back moves into contact with a table edge, the entire unit is removed from the garne as casualties, as it scattersarrd flees the battle." - BRB page 30

I think this just means that you remove them from the table just like when a model is killed - or in other words; there's no chance for it coming back to the game unlike ongoing reserves.

A falling back unit that goes over the edge and has "scattered and flees the battle" doesn't sound like the same thing as "wiped out".

good report. Glad to see my advice helped. Guess Im a mind reader now

So as you asked, you wanted my thoughts on this battle rep, and sorry to say, but you should of lost. His list was custom tailored to defeat yours. Your lack of long range AT + love of reavers was countered by the griffon and all that short range fire. The nail in the perverbial coffin was him going first...

But as we see, you somehow pulled out a victory. now there were a bunch of mistakes from both of you, but Ill go through them one at a time. Starting with the IG player.

First off T2 you fell into a trap, but a trap he didnt know he even set up. When you turboed up into his flank, he should of done the same with the 1 or 2 of his chimera's on the opposite side of the board to try and pince you between them. This would of basically of put you in a hard choice. As you saw he easily killed almost all of your wyches, so that would leave your reavers to either push forward, or pull back and take more turns of shooting. Also he probably would of finally be in flamer range, which would of finished you off.

T3 He should of hovered the Vens and kept firing. By this turn you had no long range left, and as long as he stayed out of the 9" range of the melta on the reavers (which he could of done with his skimmer movement profile) he would of been able to put an extra 6 lascannons a turn. That turn or two of extra shots could of been the difference from a win to a loss for him.

T4 He should of piled out of his chimeras. I know that sounds like its against the whole purpose of mech guard, but by then he would of had a ton extra shots into them. Also FRSR would of done wonders, but If I remember right you had killed the CCS by then.

Now for you. Basically you played very aggressively against a list that you could of waited out. Sure, T1 and T2 you had to pressure to get some KPs on the board, but when you were up, you should of backed up and forced him to again come towards you. This would of make him pull more out away from his confort zone and would of allowed for more mistakes to open up.

Also, as a rules thing. I thought ordinance means you can move and shoot the tank unless it was a heavy vehicle. So if the griffons are ordiance (for the 2d6 pen) then how was he moving and shooting it??? (unless I am mixing 5th with 6th, which wont be the first time)

Ordinance lets you move and shoot now in 6th, you just can't snap shot ordinance and if you want to fire an ordinance weapon + other weapons the other weapons are also snap shot

So I asked my mate if he would do a rematch with exactly the same lists, starting from IG turn two (using the reports to set things up identically as best we could. This time he was ready, this time he was armed with Shadows Revenge Advice!

What a report with in a report? *cue inception music*

Hindsight is a wonderful thing... What if we could rewind time? Rewrite history? Are you interested? Then read on...

As the Xenos rode into the Valley of Death, Commander Ludvik of the 22nd Steel Hounds armoured battalion shouted his orders. It was all unnervingly familiar he thought to himself, like he had fought this battle before.

Turn 2 (IG):

The vendettas came on and destroyed two raiders, each killing five wiches in the explosions. Four of the chimeras moved up, firing into the last raider wrecking it. A squad of vets disembarked and were issued the order "fire on my target!" (re-roll passed cover saves) killing six reavers. The griffons fired at the wyches one missing, but two scoring direct hits. The squad in area terrain didn't got to ground and the succubus and hekatrix survived (5+ cover saves). The other squad was not so fortunate, going to ground in the open, with only the succubus surviving. Both squads past their tests. Two chimeras rapid fired into the remaining three reavers killing two. One chimera rapid fired at another squad of reavers failling to kill any. The two chimeras that were originally going to turbo boost up snapfired all their shots at the lone reaver (including their vets) but failed to kill him. Two members of the command squad and one vet died to gets hot!.


Turn 2 (DE):

Both the larger reavers squads destroyed a chimera each and charged the survivors killing them all, earning them each a pain token. The chimera explosions killed some of the vets in the ruins. The lone reaver charged the vets in the ruin tanking overwatch for the succubus and her hekatrix bodyguard who followed. The succubus slaughtered the vets in the ruins and fortunately got the pain token. They consolidated into the bottom floor of the ruin. The squad of five wiches striped a haywire grenade off the empty chimera before charging it and wrecking it. The reavers used their consolidate moves to fan out.

Turn 3 (IG):

Everything moved up. The vendettas entered hovered mode, one of them killing the lone succubus and the other firing at the warlord succubus in the ruin to no effect. A griffon used it's heavy flamer to kill a reaver. The command chimera used it's heavy flamer to kill a wych squad, and the command squad killed a reaver (only two plasma guns as two had died previously to overheats). The other griffons fired at the large reaver squad, one hit killing two reavers, the other missed. Two squads of vets disembarked one the closer one failing it's "fire on my target order", it rapid fired into the reavers (only two plasma guns as one had died to gets hot previously) killing one. The other vet squad passed it's "fire on my target order" and fired its weapons at killing another two reavers. The two chimeras killed the succubus' bodyguard. All leardship tests were passed.


Turn 3 (DE):

The lone reaver turboboosted as far away as possible. The squad of four reavers took out the command chimera killing the command squad in the explosion. They used their assault move to get behind the ruin. The larger reaver squad multi charged the two vet squads losing a single reaver to overwatch. the succubus followed up. They one combat by ten and swept the surviving vets.


Turn 4 (IG):

Three heavy flamers from the chimeras killed five reavers. One vendetta zoomed off to take out the lone reaver, but failed. The succubus survived a volley from the other vendetta. The griffons score two dirrect hits on the four reavers killing two.

Turn 4 (DE):

The reavers all turbo boosted away.

Turn 5 (IG):

No night fight. One vendetta fired at the lone reaver, but didn't manage to kill it. The two chimeras and the vendetta finished off the succubus who had gone to ground in area terrain. One of the griffons moved into range and hit a squad of reaver killing one, the survivor failed his leadership test and fled off the board.

Turn 5 (DE):

One squad of reavers turbo boosted back to get line breaker (I figured that if the game did go on, night fight would probably kick in giving them a 2+ cover save). The game ended, DE victory... wait what?

DE 12 (10 units killed, kill the warlord, line breaker) IG 11 (9 units killed, kill the warlord, first blood)

Ludvik awoke to the distinct hum of the xenos grave-cycles to find himself in a dark cell. Just a dream... What foul xeno sorcery was this? To forever dream of wining his greatest defeat?

In conclusion he absolutely smashed me. But got unlucky with his order on turn 3 and didn't manage to kill enough reavers with his rapid fire, which was unfortunate. Also at the end of the day having 6 kill points less then your opponents army is a massive advantage!

Hope you enjoyed the mini report.

A mulligan report? MADNESS

Evil Space Elves wrote:

A mulligan report? MADNESS

It was actually a whole load of fun, we both learn't a lot from it.

I think that we've all had that "what if" thought after realizing a mistake made during a game. Cool to see one of those played out.

Well done! Way to snatch it away in the last minute with the Line Breaker!

Re-roll successful cover saves is fairly painful for Reavers with those orders. Lucky no one plays guard in my group.

How do you do it Mush, every time i read the lists you're fighting i think geegee, but the paper comparison never does your army justice, and you dish out some sweet roflstomping every time, even from the jaws of defeat.

Steffo wrote:

Re-roll successful cover saves is fairly painful for Reavers with those orders. Lucky no one plays guard in my group.

Yeah It's absolutely terrifying, I think more reavers died to lasgun fire then anything else. Thankfully orders need to be issued at the start of the shooting phase so it limits what the units can and can't do.

Steffo wrote:

How do you do it Mush, every time i read the lists you're fighting i think geegee, but the paper comparison never does your army justice, and you dish out some sweet stomping every time, even from the jaws of defeat.

If you look at both games, each time I shot three heatlances they would make something explode, heatlances are reliable sure, but that was still good rolling. Also 4+/5+FNP or 3+/5+FNP against anything that isn't S8 or above can be pretty tough if you're dice are hot, as long as you keep those lances alive the unit has bite.

Finally I think my opponents and I are not the best of players (as Shadow always points out a lot of obvious mistakes on both sides, in most of my reports), this combined with being used to playing against a certain type of list. I played against mech in 5th, razorspam, chimera spam etc. On the other hand when was the last time you or I played an army who's movement range is 32-42" and 48" in one turn? It's something very different to play against if you haven't before, and most of my opponents have only had one or two games against it. So, yes the lists I play against are tough on paper, but honestly I think a lot of those lists would crush me if they were played by players who have read all my reports and know how I play, and have a firm grasp of their own list. It's the good old saying:

It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperilled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle. - Sun Tzu

Mushkilla wrote:

So, yes the lists I play against are tough on paper, but honestly I think a lot of those lists would crush me if they were played by players who have read all my reports and know how I play, and have a firm grasp of their own list. It's the good old saying:

It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperilled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperilled in every single battle. - Sun Tzu

So does that mean I have to play you now

Everytime you play a game, there is a huge amount of luck involved. Because even the most perfect army list and best of generals can be beaten by terrible dice. I actually saw it last saturday, when I watched one of the best players I have ever seen get beaten by a new kid to the store. The vet had the game one the ENTIRE GAME. And the last turn the kid just contested everything, and killed off his contesters, and won by 1 point. The vet, not too concerned with it, said good game, shook his hand, and said "I dont get beat often, be proud of that fact." Infact this guy has an insane record of something like 100+ wins and only 6 losses before that Ive seen. I dont think Ive seen a more excited kid in my life

But tangent aside. No matter what it comes down to Mush, the dice decide the game. Keep that in mind, and no matter how it looks on paper, just play it out and see what happens, because you will never know the outcome until its game over.