1850 pt list- partially fluff/partially effective

reworked list.

feedback requested.

thinking of cutting some units for RJBs to initiate attacks.

Units/wargear marked with a * will be ones not included in a 1000 point game (the list was done in two components).

fluff- very Corsairy/rag-tag themed, so kit-bashing with wyches and warriors for kabalites, hellions/warriors for incubi.

HQ

Kai’Saran, the Blood Reaver- 145
Archon (60), with Venom Blade (5), Power Lance (15), Combat Drugs (10) Phantasm Grenade Launcher (25), Shadow Field (30)

ELITES

The Reaver’s First- 178
4 Incubi (88), Klaivex (15), Venom with 2x Splinter Cannons (65), Night Shields (10)

The Reaver’s Eyes- 141*
3 Trueborn (36), 3 Blasters (45), Raider with Dark Lance (60), Night Shields (10)

The Reaver’s Ears- 141*
3 Trueborn (36), 3 Blasters (45), Raider with Dark Lance (60), Night Shields (10)

TROOPS

The Reaver’s Talons- 120 (135*)
5 Kabalite Warriors (45), Blaster (15*), Venoms with 2x Splinter Cannons (65), Night Shields (10)

The Reaver’s Knives- 120 (135*)
5 Kabalite Warriors (45), Blaster (15*), Venoms with 2x Splinter Cannons (65), Night Shields (10)

The Reaver’s Scythes- 120 (135*)
5 Kabalite Warriors (45), Blaster (15*), Venom with 2x Splinter Cannons (65), Night Shields (10)

The Reaver’s Tongue- 181*
8 Wyches (80), Haywire Grenades (16), Hekatrix (10) with Venom Blade (5) and Phantasm Grenade Launcher (10), Raider with Dissy (60)

The Reaver’s Gauntlet- 169*
7 Wyches (70), Haywire Grenades (14), Hexatrix (10) with Venom Blade (5) and Phantasm Grenade Launcher (10), Raider with Dissy (60)

FAST ATTACK

The Serpent’s Wings- 171
6 Reavers (132), 2 Heat Lances (24), Arena Champion (10), Venom Blade (5)

HEAVY SUPPORT

The Reaver’s Lance- 105
Ravager (105), with 3 Dark Lances

The Reaver’s Scourge- 105
Ravager (105), with 3 Dark Lances

The Reaver’s Blade- 105
Ravager (105) with 3 Dark Lances

bump

Get some Reavers. Look up some of the articles that Mushkilla did on them. They are the bomb. 5 man warrior squads should have a Blaster. Try to mix raiders and venoms 50/50. Put Haywire on the wyches. Hope that helps.

Should I replace the trueborn with Reavers?

I'll put Haywire on the Wyches, by cutting down two from each unit.

Don't feel like you have to get Reavers if you don't want them, they are not mandatory just a good option. Trueborn are good in their own ways and the two are used in different ways. That said if you want Reavers the Trueborn are probably what you're going to need to drop to fit them in (or maybe one squad of Trueborn and a squad of Warriors).

amended- see OP

Edit: Now that the warrior units have Blasters, does Night Shields remain a good option?

Arming the warriors with blasters might become a problem should i encounter Tau. I like the 5 warriors in venom without a blaster because this makes them more indestructible, and 1 blaster shot is too risky, so might remove them.

I'm also thinking of mounting the incubi in a raider rather than venom just to make them more durable (relative to DE) on the approach to assault range. This raider will have a dissy. The two Wych raiders might have dissy as well.

Really torn between:

6 Reaver unit with two blasters vs a 5 warrior in a venom with a blaster

They both can kill marines in a good way.

Alternative is to do neither and spend the points buffing up my archon by swapping out her lance for a huskblade and soul trap, making the trueborn into 4 models again and give a demi-klaive and onslaught to my incubi.

Please dont double post. If you need to add infomation, just use the edit button on the upper right corner -Your Friendly Neighborhood Mod SR-

I like your new list alot. My only recommendations would be to swap the Blasters on the Reavers for Heat Lances and give them a champion to help with their leadership. If you have the points I;d also change the trueborn's raiders into venoms but that's really more a matter of taste. Other then that it all looks pretty good.

PainReaver wrote:

Now that the warrior units have Blasters, does Night Shields remain a good option?

I think so, they will still protect you from shots just not as many since you'll need to be closer to use the blaster.

PainReaver wrote:

Arming the warriors with blasters might become a problem should i encounter Tau. I like the 5 warriors in venom without a blaster because this makes them more indestructible, and 1 blaster shot is too risky, so might remove them.

"more indestructible"? I don't understand what you mean. Are blasters good against Tau? They certainly can be if you can line up shots on battlesuits. Full Armor Piercing + Insta Death is pretty tempting IMO. The chance of a lucky kill on a Hammerhead or something is a nice possibility too.

PainReaver wrote:

I'm also thinking of mounting the incubi in a raider rather than venom just to make them more durable (relative to DE) on the approach to assault range. This raider will have a dissy. The two Wych raiders might have dissy as well.

I don't think the durability difference will be all that great especially when you consider that venoms are smaller and thus easier to hide. Not being shot at (or being shot at through cover) is better then a hull point IMO. Still I often run my Archon in a raider just because the retinue I want for him don't often fit in venoms so they can both work.

PainReaver wrote:

6 Reaver unit with two blasters

The popular equipment for Reavers recently has been Heat Lances over Blasters actually. Since Reavers are so fast they can get close enough to use the Heatlance well and it's a better weapon for popping vehicles in that situation.

PainReaver wrote:

Alternative is to do neither and spend the points buffing up my archon by swapping out her lance for a huskblade and soul trap, making the trueborn into 4 models again and give a demi-klaive and onslaught to my incubi.

I like kitting out my Archon all out (Huskblade and such as you mention) but at the same time I'm not a fan of spending too much on the Incubi. They're already expensive and if the archon is fighting in a challenge often the incubi lack targets or the targets they're fighting don't warrent such heavy gear. If I was running them without an Archon with them then I might deck them out like you mention but when running with the archon I like to keep them lean, just the champion and no more. Still that's just me.

i'll run heat lances o/ blasters for tank popping

what i meant against tau because you'll be using blasters at 18", all a FW unit needs to do is move 6 and rapid fire, with enough glances and penetrating hits to wipe out the venom, by not using a blaster, you can keep the venom firing from 36" beyond retaliation thanks to NS.

I'll probably strip the night shields off the trueborn's raider, for it to avoid confusion with the wych raiders, or make them dissies, so i can fit an arena champion.

And I can't run blasters on my warriors at 1k, unless i take out the night shields, which will be bad, very bad.

Edit: 9 Wyches or 8 with a wych weapon (Hydra Gauntlet)

opinion needed

Please use the edit button to add infomation -Your Friendly Neighborhood Mod SR-

Dont worry about wych weapons. The only one worth taking is the shardnet anyways. And you don't use that for extra punch, you use it to make the tarpit thicker.

does the shardnet only take effect within base contact or 2"?

I'm not really clear, atm that's why I'm adding an extra guy/girl.

Alternatively a Hekatrix with a PGL could give them some protection against overwatch

I have 22 models on the assault for the counterattack, along with 6 reavers for an emergency if need be.

Base contact only. I personally have not used PGL in 6th. I guess I'm just cheap, but i think they are horribly expensive considering that wyches already get plasma grenades. Can somebody else with PGL experience jump in here?

Archon Bruce wrote:

Dont worry about wych weapons. The only one worth taking is the shardnet anyways. And you don't use that for extra punch, you use it to make the tarpit thicker.

All though this was the case last edition, shardnets are pretty bad this edition as they need to be in base contact to work and casualties are removed from the front, so they will die pretty quickly. You are far better of spending those 10pts on a PGL.

Archon Bruce wrote:

Base contact only. I personally have not used PGL in 6th. I guess I'm just cheap, but i think they are horribly expensive considering that wyches already get plasma grenades. Can somebody else with PGL experience jump in here?

10 points ins't much for reducing enemy attacks and more importantly stealth against all shooting within 8". What makes the PGL fantastic thought is when it comes to dealing with overwatch. The changes to fleet have made wyches really good at charging through terrains, combine this with the PGL and you should always be getting a 3-4+ cover save against overwatch, which is invaluable for keeping wyches alive.

Hope that helps.

I was looking at 20 pts for warriors PGL. That makes a difference. Can you describe cover saves for charging units? My local game store plays that you dont get a cover save in overwatch. Is there a FAQ on this?

Archon Bruce wrote:

I was looking at 20 pts for warriors PGL. That makes a difference. Can you describe cover saves for charging units? My local game store plays that you dont get a cover save in overwatch. Is there a FAQ on this?

I thought you might have been.

Well your local gaming group is giving you a rough deal. There is no need for a FAQ, over watch attacks are shooting attacks, and therefore you get a cover save from them (if you are in a position to benefit from cover). It's why wyches are still usable in 6th edition.

Here is the relevant rule book quote:

Quote :

An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on. - BRB page 22

So there are two ways to get cover for over watch, charge out of cover, as overwatch is resolved before you move the models, or charge through a screening unit (as you can move through the gaps in your own units), this way you get a 5+ cover save from intervening models, which becomes a 4+ cover save with the PGL if you are within 8" (which is the ideal charge range for wyches).

Hope that clears things up.

So it seems that wyches are still viable charging, provided you aren't walking into a wall of flames. Would you recommend them in a 5 man squad as well?

Archon Bruce wrote:

So it seems that wyches are still viable charging, provided you aren't walking into a wall of flames. Would you recommend them in a 5 man squad as well?

Depends what you want to do with them. If I run a Hekatrix with venom blade and PGL I tend to like squads of 7-8. But that's because I like to use them in assault, and I prefer raiders to venoms (mainly because they can block line of sight to reavers).

They also work well in venoms with haywire grenades as a hang back and shoot unit that goes for opportunistic assaults.

One last touch up, gave both units PGLs.