Fighting Eldar

Hey all!

I've got a game comping up, 1000 points, against an Eldar player who likes to keep his Avatar and his Farseer in close proximity. (Usually the Farseer is in a squad of Dire Avengers)


Would Raider/Venom Gunboats be good at taking these two out? If not what would you suggest? Who do I try to eliminate first? Etc.

I have very little experience against this Eldar player, and even less as Dark Eldar against him.

Any pointers would be great. Thanks!

Does he use mech at all?

If not then wrack/venoms at 36" long range will be perfect. Raiders with DC. This will make him weep if he only brings foot.

BUT, often your opponent will try and surprise you, if you for example had him screaming last time when he brought all foot army with your massed long-range venoms next time he might bring more mech and make them useless.

For this reason I try to balance AI and AT, just to be able to handle all threats in some way. It's not finished yet, it's not combat tested against all races. But atleast the core is used by many.

I usually play @1k so I'm used to the points costs and some armies in my local meta.

if you want some inspiration for shooty 1k check my army list thread (I'm up to the third finetune of it atm):

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t4670-1k-6th-tourney

Last time he had a couple of warwalkers, but from the stories he has like a 0% accuracy rating with his Brightlances/Scatter Lasers. Only other vehicle he owns is a Wave Serpent so I know he'll bring some Mech, but nothing too over the top. He really likes his Dire Avenger squads by the sounds of things.

However the Venom/Wrack idea sounds pretty good. I might have to give that a shot. I have enough Anti-Armour laying around that the other stuff wont be a problem. DL Warrior teams on objectives, Ravagers, Wych w/ Haywires etc.. I'll fit something into the list. Thanks!

Take out the warwalker first as their scatter lasers are pretty good against all our light armor

I have a problem with our Eldar player (our being my little Warhammer club). HE. HASN'T. LOST. A. GAME. YET. AND WE HAVE BEEN PLAYING FOR ALMOST A YEAR NOW!!!!!!! We are getting up to 2000pt battles now, though it's usually about a thousand or 1500. He takes a wave serpent, swooping hawks, avengers, eldrad, farseer on a bike, eldrad is with a farseer and 3 warlocks in a seer council, he takes a warwalker and also a fire prism. He also takes grey knight detachments. And cheats some with his codex. HOW I KILL HIM!? >.<

Don't let him cheat

THeWigglyNoodle wrote:

Don't let him cheat

This.

If he cheats I wouldnt play him. Its that easy. If its known and nobody does anything about it its about time some take a stand.

I tend to play really even matches vs Eldar. But its a matchup I just love! Its properly my fav. matchup. But its mostly about bringing a allcommers list, and playing well if you post what you are playing then we might be able to give better advice.

THeWigglyNoodle wrote:

Don't let him cheat

Exactly. Why would you play someone that you know is cheating? Call him on everything and ask him to show you his list and his codex. If he's wrong then tell him and, if there's a group of you, make sure you tell him so everyone else knows too. Most people don't like to be embarassed and after the first half dozen or so times he might start to pay more attention to the rules.

I play him so that I can get better, because he is also good at playing Eldar, but the way he cheats you can't catch him. He just moves too quickly. What type of list would be suggested? He takes a fairly mechanized army, wave serpent, war walker, farseer on jetbike, and a fire prism. He always takes swooping hawks, as well as Dire Avengers. Usually he also takes a wraithlord and pathfinders.

The other night we played 2000 points of the scouring. He table wiped me.

I took an Archon w/ Huskblade, soul trap, venom blade, webway portal, ghostplate, shadow field. A succubus with haywires and hydra gauntlets.

10 scourges with 2 splinter cannons and 2 haywire blasters
6 reavers with 2 heat lances and 2 cluster caltrops

9 kabalite warriors with a blaster and dark lance, and a sybarite with agoniser, PGL, ghostplate, and blast pistol. they were joined by the archon in a raider that had nightshields, flickerfields, and splinter racks.

I also took 15 wyches, with 3 pairs of Hydra gauntlets and haywire grenades and a Hekatrix with and Agoniser, PGL, and blast pistol who were joined by the succubus

I also took 10 Kabalite Trueborn in a raider (same as the kabalite warrior one) with 4 blasters, a dark lance, and a splinter cannon and a Dracon with the same stuff as the sybarite, and I believe I gave the remaining three shardcarbines

I also took 5 Hekatrix bloodbrides with a pair of hydras and a Syren with an agoniser and PGL

Ya definitely got to call him out on the cheating, double measure stuff and read his codex and BRB. My friends and I get brutal sonetimes about this but its a good thing, keeps everyone fair and makes the game more fun.

Also u might want to rework parts of ur list. its not bad but u need heavy support! 2 or 3 ravagers are almost a must for the support they bring. I always bring 3 heavys in all my lists. Venoms are always nice as well!

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

I play him so that I can get better, because he is also good at playing Eldar, but the way he cheats you can't catch him. He just moves too quickly.

If he was actually good then he wouldn't need to cheat.

Never take any of the special wych weapons on a Succubus. Ever. A venom blade is a far better choice. Archon shouldn't have a WWP, it's expensive and he's a poor delivery choice. I'd drop it and probably give him drugs and, seeing as I'm probably running him with incubi so as to avoid wasting his CC ability, a PGL.

The scourges seriously suffer from a lack of specialization. Haywire blasters are a bit worse than they were last edition, and you don't need the added AI. Reavers look good.

You should fill the warrior squad to ten, and I'd recommend taking a splinter cannon instead of the lance. Drop the Sybarite's close-combat equipment. The flickerfield isn't really needed. They are a very bad bodyguard for your Archon, as yours is designed to fight up close. Incubi or even harlequins work better for that. Add another squad or two, just like this one, or as five-man squads with a blaster in a venom. Cut the wyches down to seven or eight and put them in a raider, and drop the hydra gauntlets.

Like the scourges, your trueborn really want a specialized role. Most people here (including myself) will advocate squads of three or four with as many blasters as possible riding in a venom. Much cheaper. Bloodbrides, especially in such a small unit, are fairly poor as well. Replace them with a good bodyguard squad for the Archon.

Oh, and ravagers are good. Try one or two of them as well.

To answer the original post, I thought the other posts were a bit of a detour of course don't play a cheater if you can, I would prioritize the Eldar (as much info as you gave) like this.


1 - Warwalkers: These guys can kick out some serious firepower and I think people like to overstate how poorly they shoot. If anything, he might start regressing to the mean if you let them live. Shoot to kill.
2 - Waveserpant - Most likely the Dire Avengers will be mounted in here to unleash 3 shots per guy when they disembark. However, they are really exposed once they disembark and do not have much survivability afterwards. Probably anything they disembark to shoot will die so accept the loss and bring them down.
3 - Avatar- Honestly, this is the primary target for your venoms/splinter cannons so I guess it could also be #1 as well. Don't bother with the Lances on this guy until the other 2 above are dead.

First off, lets ignore the fact you think he is cheating. We will get back to that later.

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

The other night we played 2000 points of the scouring. He table wiped me.

I took an Archon w/ Huskblade, soul trap, venom blade, webway portal, ghostplate, shadow field. A succubus with haywires and hydra gauntlets.

Thats alot on an Archon, and whats the purpose of the WWP??? Its a waste imho. Also never run a WW on a succubus, go with a power weapon, agoniser, or even a venom blade.

Quote :

10 scourges with 2 splinter cannons and 2 haywire blasters
6 reavers with 2 heat lances and 2 cluster caltrops

First off never mix scourge weapons, there is no purpose. Secondly if you want to run them like this, split ithem into two squads of 5. That way the haywire blasters can focus on tanks, while the cannon ones focus on infantry. Secondly do either the heat lance upgrade or the caltrops upgrade on the reavers. The reason being is that when your not bladevaning, your wasting the points on the caltrops, and when your not shooting at tanks, your wasting the points for the heat lance. I would stick with the heat lances, and think of bladevaning as a secondary option used while repositioning to shoot your next tank.

Quote :

9 kabalite warriors with a blaster and dark lance, and a sybarite with agoniser, PGL, ghostplate, and blast pistol. they were joined by the archon in a raider that had nightshields, flickerfields, and splinter racks.

First off you cant take 9 warriors and a dark lance. Its 10 or no heavy weapon. Secondly NEVER take a close combat sybarite with warriors. Warriors shouldnt be in combat, and even if they do get there, they will die before you get your points back from him.

Quote :

I also took 15 wyches, with 3 pairs of Hydra gauntlets and haywire grenades and a Hekatrix with and Agoniser, PGL, and blast pistol who were joined by the succubus

You cant assault out of a WWP, which means your 15 wyches + succubus that are T3 6+ save are just sitting out in the open. Bad move. Drop them down to 10 (or 9 for room for the succubus) and throw them in a raider

Quote :

I also took 10 Kabalite Trueborn in a raider (same as the kabalite warrior one) with 4 blasters, a dark lance, and a splinter cannon and a Dracon with the same stuff as the sybarite, and I believe I gave the remaining three shardcarbines

Again... Another shooting unit with close combat upgrades. Drop them. Secondly why mixing more weapony??? You have AT and AI mixed into one squad, its almost horrendous the wasteful points cost for this unit. Either go splinterborn, or go blasterborn (or even lanceborn), but just pick one role for the unit.

Quote :

I also took 5 Hekatrix bloodbrides with a pair of hydras and a Syren with an agoniser and PGL

Now why did you take them??? What purpose did they serve your army??? They just look like points filler... and bad ones at that.

Also where are your heavy support??? Our HS slots are one of our best slots, and you have nothing from there... This list just reaks of a list built to fill in points. These are the types of games you should never play. They always end up badly, as you will always be over played as you dont have as many models on the field, especially when yours are T3 5+ save...


Now lets get onto him cheating. How do you know he cheats? and If so, how? Does he fudge rolls? Does he lie about rules? These things are easy to overcome by doing a few simple things. First, always ask for a army list. Second, make sure you have a general knowledge of his codex, like average S, T, WS. Also make sure there is a copy near you when you play, as if something doesnt sound right, just ask to see it. Finally know basic 40k rules. If he is shooting a S4 gun against a T3 model, know that he needs 3s to wound, and watch his rolls. Also dont be afraid to again ask quesitons if you dont quite understand the rule or why he is doing something, and ask to see it in the codex or rulebook.

I had made mistakes with that list, I was trying to type it from memory as I threw away the old list by accident. Here's the new list for our rematch this weekend.

Archon w/ Huskblade, venom blade, ghostplate, soultrap, PGL, and Shadow field.
Succubus w/ Agoniser and Haywire grenades.

10 Kabalites w/ blaster and dark lance, they are in a Raider with splinter racks
9 wyches (joined by succubus) in a raider, Hydra gauntlets, All have haywire grenades, a Hekatrix with PGL Adoniser and pistol

5 Trueborn, 4 blasters and a Dark Lance in a venom with another splinter cannon
5 Trueborn with 3 shardcarbines and 2 splintercannons in a venom with another splinter cannon
7 Incubi (joined by Archon) with a Klaivex with demiklaives, bloodstone, Onslaught and Murderous assault. They are in a Raider (no upgrades on raider)

6 Reavers with 2 heat lances
5 scourges with 2 haywire blasters
5 scourges with 2 splinter cannons

A Voidraven with 3 Necrotoxin Missiles, an Implosion missile, and Nighshields

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

I had made mistakes with that list, I was trying to type it from memory as I threw away the old list by accident. Here's the new list for our rematch this weekend.

Archon w/ Huskblade, venom blade, ghostplate, soultrap, PGL, and Shadow field.
Succubus w/ Agoniser and Haywire grenades.

10 Kabalites w/ blaster and dark lance, they are in a Raider with splinter racks Trade the lance for a splinter cannon. You can't fire a lance at all on the move (at least, not with any accuracy,) and the unit itself is clearly taking an AI role. Though I do like having a blaster as insurance in my warrior squads.
9 wyches (joined by succubus) in a raider, Hydra gauntlets, All have haywire grenades, a Hekatrix with PGL Adoniser and pistol A PGL is kind of useless for wyches, as they come with assault grenades and should never take a charge. I'd suggest dropping it.

5 Trueborn, 4 blasters and a Dark Lance in a venom with another splinter cannon You can drop the one with the lance. Lanceborn can work, but usually as a bargain squad of three with two lances hiding in a ruin, and even then they're a poor choice, though you can have their Venom fly around without them. The reason not to take a full DL in this kind of squad is similar to the reason with the Warriors: it's ineffective on the move and rather expensive.
5 Trueborn with 3 shardcarbines and 2 splintercannons in a venom with another splinter cannon
7 Incubi (joined by Archon) with a Klaivex with demiklaives, bloodstone, Onslaught and Murderous assault. They are in a Raider (no upgrades on raider) The Klaivex doesn't need all that gear. I usually take one with my Incubi, but for purposes of cost, I only give him Onslaught. It buffs the whole squad, is useful in most games, and doesn't suffer from hidden downsides like the bloodstone can.

6 Reavers with 2 heat lances
5 scourges with 2 haywire blasters
5 scourges with 2 splinter cannons

A Voidraven with 3 Necrotoxin Missiles, an Implosion missile, and Nighshields Voidravens get very, very expensive with missiles. They come with a decent anti-tank loadout, so the missiles don't tend to help it, either. As fliers don't get Jink, a flickerfield is still a great buy on them.

With the advent of premeasuring, Night Shields are actually quite a powerful upgrade. I recommend putting them on every vehicle.

Better. My suggestions are in red.

Flyers do get Jink now, it's just called Evade. You can choose to use it before penatration rolls are made. Found that out Sunday whilst fighting Necrons (lost 6-5 on the Emporers Will).

Alright, remastered the list again, here it is.

Archon is the same
Succubus has Agoniser and Haywires

10 Kabalites have a blaster and splinter cannon in a raider with splinter racks and night shields
9 wyches (joined by succubus) with a pair of Hydras, they are all equipped with Haywires, they have a hekatrix with a power weapon and pistol, they are in a raider with night shields

5 Kabalite trueborn with 4 blasters in a venom with another splinter cannon, and night shields
5 Kabalite trueborn with 3 shardcarbines and 2 splinter cannons in a venom with another splinter cannon and night shields
7 Incubi with a Klaivex with demiklaives and onslaught in a raider with nightshields (joined by archon)

Reavers are the same
both squads of scourges are the same

Voidraven with night shields 3 necrotoxins and an Implosion missile
Ravager with 2 Disentegrator cannons and a dark lance and night shields

If you Evade, you can only fire Snap Shots on the next turn. Leave such clumsy techniques to the lesser races; they can't get a 5+ invul. Flickerfields are made almost irrelevant by Jink because Jink is triggered by movement and doesn't give any disadvantages. Evade gives a major disadvantage, and should be avoided if possible.
If you absolutely must take missiles on the Voidraven, Monoscythe or Shatterfield are the best options. Either one can ID Eldar, which you want this list to kill. Implosion missiles are somewhat overpriced, and don't really give you much special capabilities here.

I disagree with PLF being useless on Wytches. In 6th, it gives you stealth if enemy is closer than 8'', quite useful when you're assualting since it helps against overwatch (6+ cover save in the open isn't much, but it helps a bit. And since with fleet, your average charge distance through terrain is better than most units' in open you should make use of cover to buff thta save to 4+ or 3+).

Archon Farath Mure wrote:

A PGL is kind of useless for wyches, as they come with assault grenades and should never take a charge. I'd suggest dropping it.

Useless? The Phantasm Grenade Launchers (a 10pt wonder on them) gives them stealth against shooting from enemies units within 8" of them (defensive grenades) and fleet makes them great at charging through cover. This means as long as they are charging out of cover or from behind a screening unit they should have a 4+ cover save against overwatch (unless they are charging out of ruins in which case they have a 3+ cover save). This really makes overwatch a non issue (except flamers), as far as i'm concerned that's far from useless.

Completely forgot about that, actually. Never mind what I said about them, then.
Oh, and wyches can only have one set of wych weapons per five models. Nine wyches can only take one set. No real loss.

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

Archon w/ Huskblade, venom blade, ghostplate, soultrap, PGL, and Shadow field.
Succubus w/ Agoniser and Haywire grenades.

A very expensive Archon, and do you think you really need 2 HQs? Most people just run with 1, even at 2k to save points. Is two really needed for this list?

Quote :

10 Kabalites have a blaster and splinter cannon in a raider with splinter racks and night shields
9 wyches (joined by succubus) with a pair of Hydras, they are all equipped with Haywires, they have a hekatrix with a power weapon and pistol, they are in a raider with night shields

First off you need 10 wyches for two WW, but thats really ilrelivent. What point limit is this? 1.5k? 2? And you only have 2 troops? 5/6 times this game is won by holding objectives, and only taking 2 troops is begging for a loss, especially when one is charging the enemy. Get more troops, and fast.

Quote :

5 Kabalite trueborn with 4 blasters in a venom with another splinter cannon, and night shields
5 Kabalite trueborn with 3 shardcarbines and 2 splinter cannons in a venom with another splinter cannon and night shields
7 Incubi with a Klaivex with demiklaives and onslaught in a raider with nightshields (joined by archon)

First off when doing blasterborn, dont add the 5th guy, he actually makes you statistically lose more people when the venom blows up. Also right now do you feel you need the AI brought to you by the splinterborn? Arent the venoms and dissie ravagers enough AI for you already? Personally I see the second squad of trueborn as a waste, and you dont want to really take trueborn until you have filled out your troop slot (as warriors are cheaper and do almost the same job... oh and are scoring to boot)

I would drop the demiklaives and onslaught, as they are really superfluous, and personally I think 7 incubi + archon is completely overkill. You want to hit the unit, wait a round in combat, and then pop out during their turn. This is so your unit doesnt get shot up during their shooting phase. I normally run 5 incubi or 4 and an archon, but 5+ Archon could do fine as well. Also I am torn between including a klaivex or not. On the one hand, he helps by taking chump sargie challenges and lets your archon go to work on basic troops, and his extra WS and I helps with combat steps. That being said, he is almost as expensive as another incubi...

Quote :

6 Reavers with 2 heat lances
5 scourges with 2 haywire blasters
5 scourges with 2 splinter cannons

My question is what do you think the scourges and reavers bring to the list? I would like to hear your thoughts on this part.

Quote :

Voidraven with night shields 3 necrotoxins and an Implosion missile
Ravager with 2 Disentegrator cannons and a dark lance and night shields

First off always put flickerfields on our planes. The ability to never have to evade (which means you can only snapfire, and that means no blast templates either...) is a powerful one indeed. Secondly why the missles? if you want the missles, just take the razorwing and call it a day. The void raven is a AT platform, and giving it missles mixes its role up too much.

Also never Vect (2 dissies, one dark lance... the old dias config) ravagers. Being a mix role like that confuses what you are suppose to shoot at, and especially now that the dissie is such a low S gun, just keep them either all dark lances, or all dissies, your choice (personally... I would go all DL...)

Your list still looks jumbled to me, like "I have these models, lets throw them in" These hodge-podge lists dont work well against someone who squeezes every bit of efficiency out from his list. They might be ok for casual games, but if you really want to beat this guy, this is not the list to do it with.

Scourges with haywire are AT and the others are AI the Reavers are AT

Also the wyches only have 1 set of Hydra gauntlets, one model has them, not a pair as in 2, I only have 1 model with them

Please use the edit button in future. Thanks. - Mush

Hi, I have a couple of suggestions on top of what others have said.

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

9 wyches (joined by succubus) with a pair of Hydras, they are all equipped with Haywires, they have a hekatrix with a power weapon and pistol, they are in a raider with night shields

This is fine, but you could still have the PGL if you wanted - it would get more points efficient in larger squads. Drop the squad to 8 to make room. The succubus really boosts the killing power of this unit, so you don't need to max it out. You could pick up enhanced aethersails to get into combat quicker. Assuming you are playing aggressively with them. Same suggestion for the Archon's ride.

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

both squads of scourges are the same

Scourges are fine, but as other have mentioned, you lack troops. I suggest dropping both these units for some more troops. Two small squads in venoms will provide more AI & more AT (blaster warrior squad or HWG wyches) and costs pretty much the same or even less if you leave off the NS.

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

Voidraven with night shields 3 necrotoxins and an Implosion missile
Ravager with 2 Disentegrator cannons and a dark lance and night shields

I've never tried the voidraven, but I would really urge you to switch the NS for FF for the reasons stated by Shadows Revenge. Certainly those missiles can be effective, but vs eldar the monscythe/shatterfield would have more utility.
Also, ravagers don't need NS quite so much..they tend to get targetted by long-range shooting & the NS don't help as much. I would drop NS from this unit first when trimming for efficiency.

I think of list building like composing sentences, where each sentence is a unit in your army.
What superfluous words can I trim from this sentence and still have it make perfect sense? I could remove the 2nd word and the 2nd-to-last word, for example.
I can also limit each sentence to saying just one thing at a time i.e. specialization.
Each sentence complements the others to create a message you wish to portray. Your message shall be the destruction of your opponent's force (evil chuckle permitted at this stage)!
Now apply this tortured (appropriate for us ) simile to drawing up your army list. It doesn't have to be boring and repetitive, you can still have variety. But the best lists really max out these kind of efficiencies, and I suggest you apply these too if you want to compete.
Will your opponent 'get the message' clearly & with maximum discomfort? I certainly hope so! Will I now shut up?
Yes.

So Saturday, tomorrow, at 5:30 pm (Mountain time, I'm in Colorado), I have a rematch on our brand new regulation table a member of our "club" built. We need to have a 750 pt, 1000 pt, and 1750 pt list ready when we arrive. No proxy. My army (not list, army) has 1 Archon, 1 Succubus, Duke Sliscus, 20 Kabalites (though, as I'm sure you all know, Kabalites are the same as trueborn) 20 wyches (Hexatrix bloodbrides are Wych models as well) 10 scourges, 6 reavers, a venom, and 2 raiders. I have my lists ready, and nead some critiquing on them, though I think they are pretty solid.

750 points

Archon w/ Huskblade, drugs, shadow field, and venom blade (150 points)

10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite w/ ghostplate all in a raider with splinter racks, night shields, and flickerfields (225 points)
9 Wyches w/ 1 set of Hydra gauntlets (1 model has them), they all have Haywires, a Hekatrix (Included in 9, it's not a separate model) w/ PGL, agoniser, and blast pistol, they are also in a raider with night shields and flickerfields. (253 points)

5 scourges w/ 2 Haywire blasters (130 points)


1000 points

Archon w/ Huskblade, venom blade, soul trap, drugs, shadow field (150 points)

10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, a sybarite (included in 10) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL all in a raider w/ splinter racks, night shields and flickerfields (245 points)
5 Kabalites with blaster and Sybarite (included in 5) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL (100)
9 Wyches with 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, 5 models have Haywire grenades, a Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ Agoniser, PGL and blast pistol all in a Raider with night shields and flickerfields (253 points)

2x 5 Scourges with 2x haywire blasters (130 points per squad, 260 for both)

1750 points

Archon w/ Huskblade, agoniser, ghostplate, soul trap, shadow field, and drugs (175 points)
Duke Sliscus (150 points)
Succubus w/ Agoniser, Electrocorrosive whip, and Haywires (110 points)

10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite (Included in 10) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL all in a raider w/ splinter racks, night shields, flickerfields and tormentor grenade lauchers (265 points)
6 Kabalites (joined by Duke) w/ blaster and Sybarite (included in 6) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL (109 points)
10 wyches w/ 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, 1 Shardnet and Impaler, all equiped with Haywire grenades, a Hekatrix (included in 10) w/ blast pistol, PGL, and agoniser (195 points)
8 Wyches (joined by Succubus and Archon) w/ 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, all equipped with Haywires, a Hekatrix (inluded in w/ blast pistol, PGL, and agoniser all in Raider with nightshields, flickerfields, and tormenter grenade launchers (246 points)

6 Reavers w/ 2 Heat lances, cluster caltrops (1 set), a GravTalon, and a Champion (included in 6) w/ agoniser
2x 5 scourges with 2x haywire blasters and a Solarite (included in 5) (140 points each squad, 280 points for both)



So, those are my lists, please make suggestions, because I am sure they can be improved, I have already thought about shaving the 6 Kabalites down enough to put the in a venom with Duke, or shave the 10 kabalites down to 9 to fit him in. Just remember, I cannot proxy, and only have 20 Kabalites (Trueborn are Kabalite models) 20 wyches (Bloodbrides are Wych models) 10 scourges, an Archon, a Succubus, Duke,, 6 reavers, 2 raiders, and a venom.

Thanks for all your previous suggestions, they've helped me look at Dark Eldar from a different perspective, and learn how to use them better, I just used some suggestions made to make a 1500 point list against Khorne, we played Big Guns Never Tire, and I won 5 points to his 3, AND, I didn't have any heavy support, whilst he had a Land Raider and a Defiler. 2x 4 Blasterborn plus 5 scourges with 2 haywires= poof goes a land raider!