I need help!!!!! Someone please critique my anti eldar lists for tomorrow night!!

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So Saturday, tomorrow, at 5:30 pm (Mountain time, I'm in Colorado), I have a rematch on our brand new regulation table a member of our "club" built. We need to have a 750 pt, 1000 pt, and 1750 pt list ready when we arrive. No proxy. My army (not list, army) has 1 Archon, 1 Succubus, Duke Sliscus, 20 Kabalites (though, as I'm sure you all know, Kabalites are the same as trueborn) 20 wyches (Hexatrix bloodbrides are Wych models as well) 10 scourges, 6 reavers, a venom, and 2 raiders. I have my lists ready, and nead some critiquing on them, though I think they are pretty solid.

750 points

Archon w/ Huskblade, drugs, shadow field, and venom blade (150 points)

10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite w/ ghostplate all in a raider with splinter racks, night shields, and flickerfields (225 points)
9 Wyches w/ 1 set of Hydra gauntlets (1 model has them), they all have Haywires, a Hekatrix (Included in 9, it's not a separate model) w/ PGL, agoniser, and blast pistol, they are also in a raider with night shields and flickerfields. (253 points)

5 scourges w/ 2 Haywire blasters (130 points)


1000 points

Archon w/ Huskblade, venom blade, soul trap, drugs, shadow field (150 points)

10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, a sybarite (included in 10) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL all in a raider w/ splinter racks, night shields and flickerfields (245 points)
5 Kabalites with blaster and Sybarite (included in 5) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL (100)
9 Wyches with 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, 5 models have Haywire grenades, a Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ Agoniser, PGL and blast pistol all in a Raider with night shields and flickerfields (253 points)

2x 5 Scourges with 2x haywire blasters (130 points per squad, 260 for both)

1750 points

Archon w/ Huskblade, agoniser, ghostplate, soul trap, shadow field, and drugs (175 points)
Duke Sliscus (150 points)
Succubus w/ Agoniser, Electrocorrosive whip, and Haywires (110 points)

10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite (Included in 10) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL all in a raider w/ splinter racks, night shields, flickerfields and tormentor grenade lauchers (265 points)
6 Kabalites (joined by Duke) w/ blaster and Sybarite (included in 6) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL (109 points)
10 wyches w/ 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, 1 Shardnet and Impaler, all equiped with Haywire grenades, a Hekatrix (included in 10) w/ blast pistol, PGL, and agoniser (195 points)
8 Wyches (joined by Succubus and Archon) w/ 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, all equipped with Haywires, a Hekatrix (inluded in w/ blast pistol, PGL, and agoniser all in Raider with nightshields, flickerfields, and tormenter grenade launchers (246 points)

6 Reavers w/ 2 Heat lances, cluster caltrops (1 set), a GravTalon, and a Champion (included in 6) w/ agoniser
2x 5 scourges with 2x haywire blasters and a Solarite (included in 5) (140 points each squad, 280 points for both)



So, those are my lists, please make suggestions, because I am sure they can be improved, I have already thought about shaving the 6 Kabalites down enough to put the in a venom with Duke, or shave the 10 kabalites down to 9 to fit him in. Just remember, I cannot proxy, and only have 20 Kabalites (Trueborn are Kabalite models) 20 wyches (Bloodbrides are Wych models) 10 scourges, an Archon, a Succubus, Duke,, 6 reavers, 2 raiders, and a venom.

The Eldar player I'm facing usually takes a fire prism, wave serpent, war walker (sometimes) one vyper bike, a Farseer on jetbike, Eldrad and like 3 warlocks with a farseer (seer council), dire avengers, swooping hawks, and guardians, and pathfinders (rangers)

What about the weapon loads on the sybarites/hekatrix/Succubus/archon? Are they set?

What do you mean by set?

Oh, nevermind, they are set, but we're aloud to proxy that much, just no slapping down a Magic the Gathering box and saying it's a Raider. We can proxy weapons on models, though.

Got it. Just thinking that there are points to be saved by moving weapon loads about.

As an example, in your 750 list, you can drop the ghost plate, the blast pistol and swap the agoniser for a venom blade as well as dropping the hydra gauntlets an save 50 points!. Dropping flicker fields off the raiders gets you 20 more. Swap the archon for a Succubus with haywire grenades and a venom blade (75 more points saved) and you can now get a unit of 5 Kabalites, with a blaster in a venom with night shields. You then drop the last 5 points into a set of grisly trophies on the wych raider.

I would add a Ravager rathe than this but you don't have it listed as an option.

I firmly believe people put too much stuff into some heroes and get very little from it during games. I would suggest looking where you can make these sort of cuts and changes. Better to have another unit and vehicle then the upgrades I cut yes?

True, I see your point. What about the other two lists? I need to perfect these lists, this F***ING ELDAR PLAYER HASN'T LOST YET! I was thinking with the list he usually takes (about 50% mech 50% footslogging) I might shave down upgrades and make room for 4 blasterborn in a venom in the 1000 and/or 1750?

Here is the new 750 point list, I think it's good, but if you have any suggestions please say them. Even if you think it's good, say so so that I can be sure. Thanks

HQ
Succubus w/ venom blade and haywires - 75

Troops
10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite (included in 10) all in a Raider - 185
5 Kabalites w/ blaster and sybarite (included in 5) all in venom w/ splinter cannon - 135
9 Wyches w/ 1 set Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire grenades, a Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ PGL and venom blade all in a raider - 203

Fast Attack
6 scourges w/ 2 Haywire Blasters - 152

Total: 750 points

Well, it willbe pretty hard to squiize more from those models. Massaen bring it all up.

Do you have other armies? Or maybe some mate willing to lend some allies to you?

Nope. I have what is typed in the original post. That's it.

I think at higher points your going to struggle with no heavy support - at least over 1k anyway. A Ravager or Razorwing (or 2!) would be a welcome option

I would love to field HS, but I don't have any models for it. I'm grabbing a Razorwing soon though!

I think the 750 is about as good as can be with the models you have.

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

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So Saturday, tomorrow, at 5:30 pm (Mountain time, I'm in Colorado), I have a rematch on our brand new regulation table a member of our "club" built. We need to have a 750 pt, 1000 pt, and 1750 pt list ready when we arrive. No proxy. My army (not list, army) has 1 Archon, 1 Succubus, Duke Sliscus, 20 Kabalites (though, as I'm sure you all know, Kabalites are the same as trueborn) 20 wyches (Hexatrix bloodbrides are Wych models as well) 10 scourges, 6 reavers, a venom, and 2 raiders. I have my lists ready, and nead some critiquing on them, though I think they are pretty solid.

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1000 points

Archon w/ Huskblade, venom blade, soul trap, drugs, shadow field (150 points) Good.

10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, a sybarite (included in 10) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL all in a raider w/ splinter racks, night shields and flickerfields (245 points) Always like using these squads. See below squad for ideal cuts. Essentially, sybarite wargear is unnecessary beyond his/her rifle.
5 Kabalites with blaster and Sybarite (included in 5) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL (100) They want a venom, badly. Walking is a death sentence. Drop a Wych (of the non-grenade ones, though I think the entire squad needs to take them), the hydra gauntlets, the hekatrix's blast pistol, both sybarites' Ghostplate, and both of their PGLs to pick it up. All of those upgrades are either superfluous (sybarite gear,) situational (the blast pistol,) or disposable (the gauntlets and the wych.)
9 Wyches with 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, 5 models have Haywire grenades, a Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ Agoniser, PGL and blast pistol all in a Raider with night shields and flickerfields (253 points)

2x 5 Scourges with 2x haywire blasters (130 points per squad, 260 for both)

1750 points

Archon w/ Huskblade, agoniser, ghostplate, soul trap, shadow field, and drugs (175 points)
Duke Sliscus (150 points)
Succubus w/ Agoniser, Electrocorrosive whip, and Haywires (110 points) First, you can only take two HQs under the normal Force Organization chart. For this, I'd probably drop the Succubus. I like Archons, and he'll be a solid assassin to bring down those psykers, and maybe a vehicle after he's trapped a couple of souls. Trade his agoniser for a venom blade, the agoniser is expensive and doesn't make him more versatile. A venom blade is excellent for lightly armored prey like most eldar, while the huskblade brings down that Fortuned farseer/Eldrad in one wound, should it get through.

10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite (Included in 10) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL all in a raider w/ splinter racks, night shields, flickerfields and tormentor grenade lauchers (265 points) Cut the cannon, blaster, and one of the warriors so the Duke can join in.
6 Kabalites (joined by Duke) w/ blaster and Sybarite (included in 6) w/ Ghostplate and a PGL (109 points) They want a venom, badly. Walking is a death sentence. Cut the unit down to five models. Drop the hydra gauntlets, the hekatrix's blast pistol, both sybarites' Ghostplate, and both of their PGLs to pick it up. All of those upgrades are either superfluous (sybarite gear,) situational (the blast pistol,) or disposable (the gauntlets and the wych.)
10 wyches w/ 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, 1 Shardnet and Impaler, all equiped with Haywire grenades, a Hekatrix (included in 10) w/ blast pistol, PGL, and agoniser (195 points)
8 Wyches (joined by Succubus and Archon) w/ 1 set of Hydra Gauntlets, all equipped with Haywires, a Hekatrix (inluded in w/ blast pistol, PGL, and agoniser all in Raider with nightshields, flickerfields, and tormenter grenade launchers (246 points)

6 Reavers w/ 2 Heat lances, cluster caltrops (1 set), a GravTalon, and a Champion (included in 6) w/ agoniser I really don't like grav talons. Pinning is too unreliable for what you pay. Agonisers for Arena Champions are dubious at best, as reavers should usually be avoiding being locked in combat. You'll probably have enough spare points after all the stuff I'm suggesting to take another set of caltrops instead of the talon. A dual-purpose reaver squad isn't usually ideal, but my experience with them has been pleasant enough, and it works well with what you have.
2x 5 scourges with 2x haywire blasters and a Solarite (included in 5) (140 points each squad, 280 points for both)

If you still have the points, you could consider three trueborn with suddenly neglected heavy weapons on two of them to serve as a pair of dark lances. What you have available is a bit light on lances for my tastes, so this should help a little. Hide them in a higher point on a ruin and snipe away.



So, those are my lists, please make suggestions, because I am sure they can be improved, I have already thought about shaving the 6 Kabalites down enough to put the in a venom with Duke, or shave the 10 kabalites down to 9 to fit him in. Just remember, I cannot proxy, and only have 20 Kabalites (Trueborn are Kabalite models) 20 wyches (Bloodbrides are Wych models) 10 scourges, an Archon, a Succubus, Duke,, 6 reavers, 2 raiders, and a venom. You can't put Kabalites below five models, so the Duke isn't going in a Venom squad. If I run him, he goes in a 9-man warrior squad in a raider with splinter wracks.

The Eldar player I'm facing usually takes a fire prism, wave serpent, war walker (sometimes) one vyper bike, a Farseer on jetbike, Eldrad and like 3 warlocks with a farseer (seer council), dire avengers, swooping hawks, and guardians, and pathfinders (rangers)

The 750 in its most up-to-date form looks as good as it's going to get. Advice in red.

Alright here's the new list for 1000 points

HQ 140
Archon w/ Huskblade, VB, Trap, Shadowfield - 140

Troops 513
10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, in raider w/ splinter racks - 175
5 Kabalites w/ blaster in venom w/ night shields and splinter cannon - 135
9 Wyches w/ Haywires, a Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ VB and PGL all in raider - 193

Elites 86
3 Trueborn with 2 DL - 86

Fast Attack 260
2x5 scourges w/ 2x Haywire blasters (130 each squad, 260 for both)

Total: 999

Alright, 1750 point list is done.

HQ 290

Archon w/ Huskblade, VB, Soul trap, Shadowfield - 140
Duke Sliscus - 150

Troops 799

10 Kabalites w/ Blaster, Sybarite (included in 9) w/ Ghostplate in raider w/ splinter racks, night shields, and flickerfields - 216
5 Kabalites w/ blaster, Sybarite (included in 5) w/ Ghostplate and PGL in venom w/ splinter cannon and night shields - 175
10 Wyches w/ 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire grenades, Hekatrix (included in 10) w/ Agoniser and PGL - 180
9 Wyches w/ Hydra Gauntlets, Haywires, Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ agoniser and PGL in raider w/ Night shields and flicker fields - 228

Fast Attack 456

6 Reavers w/ 2 heat lances and 2 cluster caltrops - 196
2x 5 Scourges w/ 2 haywire blasters - 260 (130 each squad)

Elites 202

2x 3 Trueborn w/ 2 DL and blaster - 202 (101 each squad)


Total: 1747



The plan is the distract his troops with the Wyches, they are going to be troop hunters (Dire Avengers and Guardians) While the Kabalites go squat on objectives. The Lanceborn will be up high on opposite ends of my deployment zone, catching things in crossfires (hopefully tanks) the scourges will be tank hunters, the reavers will be whichever is needed, if he takes all mech, they will tank hunt, if not, 2d6 S6 bladevanes, plus 4d3 bladevanes at S4...I'm happy. Duke will join Kablaites, Hedonus (Archon) will join Wyches)

Plan for the 750 point list is to have the wyches hunt troops again, while the Kabalites sit on objectives. Scourges will be tank hunters or AI, depending on what he takes. Haywires will be useless if he takes footsloggers, but still,. 4 shardcarbines can still do some damage to his squads (especially guardians, AP5 weapons XD) the Succubus will join the wyches obviously.

The plan for the 1000 point list is the same, except there will be one Lanceborn squad sniping from ruins or towers, and 2x 5 scourges who will go tankhunting

Plan for the 750 point list is to have the wyches hunt troops again, while the Kabalites sit on objectives. Scourges will be tank hunters or AI, depending on what he takes. Haywires will be useless if he takes footsloggers, but still,. 4 shardcarbines can still do some damage to his squads (especially guardians, AP5 weapons XD) the Succubus will join the wyches obviously.

The plan for the 1000 point list is the same, except there will be one Lanceborn squad sniping from ruins or towers, and 2x 5 scourges who will go tankhunting

Sorry to say but at 1750 I think you're in for a rough ride. You simply don't have the models to make what I would consider an effective army. Lack of Heavy Support in particular is killing the list for me. Best of luck though.

So I have 3 lists for a game tonight, can you please check them over and tell me if they need anymore tuning, or if the tactics for them are flawed. Thanks, these are Anti-Eldar btw, the Eldar player I'm facing usually takes a fire prism, wave serpent, sometimes warwalker, and wraithlord, and seer council with Eldrad, 3 warlocks, and a Farseer, then guardians, swooping hawks, dire avengers, and pathfinders

750 points

HQ
Succubus w/ venom blade and haywires - 75

Troops
10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, Sybarite (included in 10) all in a Raider - 185
5 Kabalites w/ blaster and sybarite (included in 5) all in venom w/ splinter cannon - 135
9 Wyches w/ 1 set Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire grenades, a Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ PGL and venom blade all in a raider - 203

Fast Attack
6 scourges w/ 2 Haywire Blasters - 152

Total: 750 points


1000 point list


HQ 140
Archon w/ Huskblade, VB, Trap, Shadowfield - 140

Troops 513
10 Kabalites w/ blaster, splinter cannon, in raider w/ splinter racks - 175
5 Kabalites w/ blaster in venom w/ night shields and splinter cannon - 135
9 Wyches w/ Haywires, a Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ VB and PGL all in raider - 193

Elites 86
3 Trueborn with 2 DL - 86

Fast Attack 260
2x5 scourges w/ 2x Haywire blasters (130 each squad, 260 for both)

Total: 999


1750 point list


HQ 290

Archon w/ Huskblade, VB, Soul trap, Shadowfield - 140
Duke Sliscus - 150

Troops 799

10 Kabalites w/ Blaster, Sybarite (included in 9) w/ Ghostplate in raider w/ splinter racks, night shields, and flickerfields - 216
5 Kabalites w/ blaster, Sybarite (included in 5) w/ Ghostplate and PGL in venom w/ splinter cannon and night shields - 175
10 Wyches w/ 2x Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire grenades, Hekatrix (included in 10) w/ Agoniser and PGL - 180
9 Wyches w/ Hydra Gauntlets, Haywires, Hekatrix (included in 9) w/ agoniser and PGL in raider w/ Night shields and flicker fields - 228

Fast Attack 456

6 Reavers w/ 2 heat lances and 2 cluster caltrops - 196
2x 5 Scourges w/ 2 haywire blasters - 260 (130 each squad)

Elites 202

2x 3 Trueborn w/ 2 DL and blaster - 202 (101 each squad)


Total: 1747


The plan for the 1750 is the distract his troops with the Wyches, they are going to be troop hunters (Dire Avengers and Guardians) While the Kabalites go squat on objectives. The Lanceborn will be up high on opposite ends of my deployment zone, catching things in crossfires (hopefully tanks) the scourges will be tank hunters, the reavers will be whichever is needed, if he takes all mech, they will tank hunt, if not, 2d6 S6 bladevanes, plus 4d3 bladevanes at S4...I'm happy. Duke will join Kablaites, Hedonus (Archon) will join Wyches

Plan for the 750 point list is to have the wyches hunt troops again, while the Kabalites sit on objectives. Scourges will be tank hunters or AI, depending on what he takes. Haywires will be useless if he takes footsloggers, but still,. 4 shardcarbines can still do some damage to his squads (especially guardians, AP5 weapons XD) the Succubus will join the wyches obviously.

The plan for the 1000 point list is the same, except there will be one Lanceborn squad sniping from ruins or towers, and 2x 5 scourges who will go tankhunting

Thanks Count, I agree, it's gonna be a tough game if we play 1750, I'm going to request that we play 750 or 1000 though so that I have a chance. How do the other two lists look?

750 and 1000 look as good as they can get with what you have. I personally prefer heat lances to haywire blasters, but both weapons have their uses.

You say he only takes a partially meched army. This is very helpful, as he's sacrificing quite a bit of mobility and protection in doing so (wave serpents may be overpriced, but they're as fast as we are.) So your priority should be to take out what he does have. Biggest threats will probably be anything with a scatter laser, so take them down first, followed by the Serpent (to get rid of his mobility) and the Prism. After that, kill what you want, probably with a priority on Eldrad's unit and the Seer Council.

Thanks, I will post the Battle Report on youtube, would you like me to message you the link once it's uploaded? I'll also be putting it in the Battle Reports section

Kabal_of_the_Red_Shadow wrote:

Thanks Count, I agree, it's gonna be a tough game if we play 1750, I'm going to request that we play 750 or 1000 though so that I have a chance. How do the other two lists look?

The other two lists look about as good as can be with the models at your disposal.

Sure, I now kind of want to see how this goes.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t5241-750-kabal-of-the-red-shadow-vs-craftworld-randren#57906 that's the battle report