A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards

Subject: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Mon Jun 13 2011, 17:19

Hi all,

After a long hiatus from 40K I've recently taken it up again, having had mixed success with my small Wych list. I'm pretty pleased with it but I'm not sure how to fill it out to 1000pt. Here's the list as it stands now:

HQ (85)
Succubus - agoniser

Troops (130)
7 Wyches
Raider

Troops (170)
8 Wyches
Hekatrix - agoniser
Raider

Heavy Support (115)
Ravager - flickerfield

The Ravager's flickerfield is there because I had 10pt left. I suppose a second Ravager would be mandatory, I was thinking maybe take some Scourges/Trueborn with shardcarbines/splinter cannons to fill in the obvious gap in the list but seeing as I lack knowhow there might be another weakness I missed completely. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Tue Jun 14 2011, 01:49

a 2nd rav is a good place to start.

then get a hekatrix w/ agoinser in squad one.

and both squads need haywire grenades.

after that, figure out how many pts you got to spend. if you want to stay cult, than get a unit of reavers x 6 w/ 2 heat lance or hellions x ? w/ helliarch w/ agoinser

Hellion Posts : 44 Join date : 2011-06-05

could maybe throw in a cheap hemmy to give the wyches a pain token as well.

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Tue Jun 14 2011, 18:18

Firstly, thank you both for your replies. Though wouldn't you know, the guy you're doing it for has a set of stern convictions. This'll be quite a long post. Laughing

Baron Tordeck wrote:: then get a hekatrix w/ agoinser in squad one.

Why's that? The Succubus is already with them so it's not for want of PW attacks is it?

Baron Tordeck wrote:: and both squads need haywire grenades.

I'm kind of hesitant about this kind of thing. Taking haywires stops the Wyches from being cheap tarpits, which is what I like about them. Plus, the 1000pt list I'll post below for criticism has 8 DLs. I hoped that'd be enough AT at that game size.

Baron Tordeck wrote:: after that, figure out how many pts you got to spend. if you want to stay cult, than get a unit of reavers x 6 w/ 2 heat lance or hellions x ? w/ helliarch w/ agoinser

I don't mind straying from Cult. It holds no special meaning to me. Wyches just epitomise what I'd expect from classic pirate warriors: lightly armoured, pistol/ccw swashbucklers! That said I'm not overly impressed by Hellions, and I doubt I'd have the guts to field those expensive yet fragile Reaver units.

Liberame wrote:: could maybe throw in a cheap hemmy to give the wyches a pain token as well.

Too costly a trick for me. Smile

As you might have noticed, I'm a guy that would skimp on trinkets if it means being able to field another unit. If a certain type of wargear is necessary, I'm going to have to be convinced - it really gets quite extreme. Razz

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These are the components I'm pretty much sold on, totalling 844 points.

HQ (85)
Succubus - agoniser

Elites (165)
5 Incubi
Venom

Troops (130)
7 Wyches
Raider

Troops (170)
8 Wyches
Hekatrix - agoniser
Raider

Fast Attack (84)
2 Beastmasters
4 Razorwing Flocks

Heavy Support (105)
Ravager

Heavy Support (105)
Ravager

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Seeing as I've had more issues with GEQ armies than MEQs, I considered spending the remaining 150ish points in the following ways:

Quote :: Elites (150)
5 Kabalite Trueborn - 3 shardcarbine, 2 splinter cannon
Venom

shock prow for a Raider? lol (5)

Quote :: Fast Attack (130)
5 Scourges - 2 splinter cannon

blast pistol for Succubus (15)

splinter cannon for Incubi's Venom (10)

Now THIS, I need help deciding between. Neutral

Hellion Posts : 44 Join date : 2011-06-05

For your last 156pts I would say

Splinter Cannon for your Incubi's Venom (10)

dont do the scourges with splinter canons, especially since the cannons is a 10pt cost for 1 extra shot if your always on the move.

5 Wracks
Liquifier Gun
Venom Splinter Canon (125)

Flickerfield for your Raiders (20)

You can start the Succubus with the Wracks on first turn, Detach from them and join the Wyches ride, taking the pain token with her. That will give her and her squad FNP before the zoom off. Meanwhile you still have a t4 unit with a scary flamer and 12 poison shots to support the rest of your army.

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Tue Jun 14 2011, 19:37

1. Dont FF your raiders, give them ES(sails).
2. Scourge with Splinter cannons is point sink....they have shard guns with assault3...its enough.
3 .More troops??, like wyches ;D
4. You could add some shardnet to squad with succubus for protection, or if you like tarpit units:
9 blodbrides/3shardnets/Hekatrix - agoniser....bigger cost but with them you can cut down incubi.

Last edited by Raneth on Wed Jun 15 2011, 18:34; edited 2 times in total

Alright, the Scourge/splinter cannon argument you both put forward totally makes sense. And though Wracks aren't my cup o' tea, I do like the idea of fielding a cheaper unit than Trueborn, allowing me to take certain upgrades and still field that second Venom I seem to want sooo much. So I'm shamelessly leeching an idea off the Tactics board! Twisted Evil

(ES are actually one of the few Raider upgrades that spark my interest. When it's time for the army to grow yet again and there are more Raiders about I'll be sure to try them on some.)

Final list (for now)! Thank you all for your thoughts!

HQ (85)
Succubus - agoniser

Elites (185)
5 Incubi
Venom - 2nd splinter cannon, night shields

Troops (115)
5 Kabalite Warriors - shredder
Venom - 2nd splinter cannon

Troops (130)
7 Wyches
Raider

Troops (170)
8 Wyches
Hekatrix - agoniser
Raider

Fast Attack (84)
2 Beastmasters
4 Razorwing Flocks

Heavy Support (115)
Ravager - night shields

Heavy Support (115)
Ravager - night shields

Hellion Posts : 44 Join date : 2011-06-05

looks good, tell me how it does

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Wed Jun 15 2011, 01:16

I don't like blast pistols out side of a Duke DS list. They are just too short a range to be useful IMO. I would rather give a Blaster to the Warrior unit and get a Venom Blade into the Beastmaster unit.

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Wed Jun 15 2011, 09:30

Nice list....make a battle report ;D

I would cut blast pistol, and HW granades and gave NS to ravagers....

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Wed Jun 15 2011, 18:26

GrenAcid wrote:: I would cut blast pistol, and HW granades and gave NS to ravagers....

Thanks for another good idea, I can work with this. Very Happy

Editing the post above to fit this new suggestion.

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Wed Jun 15 2011, 23:49

Ravs should never have NS. FF only.

Cutting haywires is bad if you have walkers in your meta.

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Thu Jun 16 2011, 00:02

Why not NS? I agree FF are tremendously efficient for their cost, I mean, in WHFB one pays 30pt to get an equivalent Ward save. But NS would kind of make the Ravager's DLs 42" range and it's something I have absolute control over, as opposed to chance-based negation.

About walkers, I've only played 250-500pt games so far and I haven't faced any Dreadnoughts or something like it yet. That might change, but I hope the extra Ravager will prove its merit!

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Thu Jun 16 2011, 00:50

Just be cool and think about targets of your lances......if you face walker kill it with first salvo.

@Baron
Emm...I dont see any point in that statement, FF have only 1/3 chance to work.....NS nave it alvways(if you keep distance)

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Thu Jun 16 2011, 04:12

First off its an Invul which means you always get it which can't be said for cover. Especially if your like me and play in an area that generally doesn't have a lot of LOS blocking terrain.

Second (and I swear I am going to sig this sometime)

Lascannon = 48"
Missile Launcher = 48"
Autocannon = 48"

48" - 6" = 42"

Dark Lance = 36"

42>36

Their weapons that are effective against our vehicles will never be affected by NS, where FF can (and for me usually does) save your butt.

(Yes Heavy Bolters and Plasma Cannons are 36" but who really sees them being played)
(Yes I am using SM but they dominate the meta in one form or the other)

I wouldn't reccomend wasting lance fire on Walkers, there will be bigger and better targets to deal with "in the first salvo". Walkers are best being tarpitted or glanced to death by haywire blasters.

Hellion Posts : 44 Join date : 2011-06-05

Also if your in range with your Dark Lances, they are within range of their 36" weaponry as long as they can move and fire (Tanks, Relentless)

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Thu Jun 16 2011, 16:59

Baron, Liberame, that is all true. I've looked around the Tactics board for a bit, and I suspect the NS vs FF debate will continue to remain undecided for quite a while to come. Can't have every correct decision handed to you on a silver platter, eh... Very Happy

Reason I'll stick with NS for now is that, while both upgrades are awesome, NS continues to have a concrete effect when I nestle the Ravager behind cover. And with the Venoms about, I'm sure to be properly introduced to FF usage anyway!

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Fri Jun 17 2011, 20:09

My opponents usualy have buckets of multilasers/HB and plasma.....so NS works.

And yes I do play with alot of terrain....If you dont, I advice to sponsor some as I did....to win Twisted Evil

As for walkers you are right, until its auto-dred....kill it on sight.

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Mon Jun 20 2011, 17:06

Alright, I've bought the models I need to construct the 1000pt list, and already thinking ahead... to 1500. Here goes.

Troops (115)
5 Kabalite Warriors - shredder
Venom - 2nd splinter cannon
Cheap scoring unit that I'm sure to like, so just took another one.

Fast Attack -expansion- (114)
2 Beastmasters
2 Razorwing Flocks
5 Khymerae
The total cost of this unit is now 198pt. Initially I intended to just take another 2 BM, 4 Flock unit but after being schooled on the necessity of Khymerae I opted to enlarge the existing unit instead.

Fast Attack (156)
6 Reavers - heat lance x2
This is the unit I'm most excited to include, but also leaves me with most doubts and questions. First of all they seem really fragile, and why Heat Lances are better than Blasters (save pt cost) I honestly still have to work out. Also, since I haven't filled out my Fast Attack slots yet (see above entry), I could split them in 2 units of 3 with a lance each. I would much like to hear your thoughts!

Heavy Support (115)
Ravager - night shields
Can't really go wrong with more Ravagers eh?

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Mon Jun 20 2011, 23:37

What did you finally decide on for your 1k list? That would help for us to comment on what you plan to fill out with

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Mon Jun 20 2011, 23:50

Okay, this is my 1000pt list as it stands

-------------------------------------------------------------
HQ (85)
Succubus - agoniser

Elites (185)
5 Incubi
Venom - 2nd splinter cannon, night shields

Troops (115)
5 Kabalite Warriors - shredder
Venom - 2nd splinter cannon

Troops (130)
7 Wyches
Raider

Troops (170)
8 Wyches
Hekatrix - agoniser
Raider

Fast Attack (84)
2 Beastmasters
4 Razorwing Flocks

Heavy Support (115)
Ravager - night shields

Heavy Support (115)
Ravager - night shields
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And this is what I thought I'd add:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Troops (115)
5 Kabalite Warriors - shredder
Venom - 2nd splinter cannon

Fast Attack -expansion- (114)
2 Beastmasters
2 Razorwing Flocks
5 Khymerae

Fast Attack (156)
6 Reavers - heat lance x2

Heavy Support (115)
Ravager - night shields
-------------------------------------------------------------

As noted before I'm most curious about correct Reaver usage! Very Happy

Hellion Posts : 44 Join date : 2011-06-05

I like how your list has evolved, id recommend not putting all your eggs in one basket however and split the reaver squad into 2 groups of 3

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Thu Jun 23 2011, 18:40

Thanks man, that's the greatest compliment a budding brewer can receive! Twisted Evil

Splitting them up into 2 squads of 3 feels 'safer', in a way. As such they attract less attention and can be held back for objective grabs. However, I've seen people use units of 6 Reavers to great success as well; providing more cover, more impressive Bladevane shenanigans, and forcing the opponent to invest significantly in order to disable but a single special weapon - having two in one squad also increases reliability of tank busting (BS4 is good but not perfect).

Speaking of which, I never got that question answered... what exactly makes the heat lance such a better buy than the blaster? silent

Subject: Re: A noob's Wych Cult - from 500 upwards Thu Jun 23 2011, 19:19

Quote :: Splitting them up into 2 squads of 3 feels 'safer', in a way

Leave them in one group. While two may feel safer it is in fact not. Its alot easier to kill that lonely special weapon.

Quote :: Speaking of which, I never got that question answered... what exactly makes the heat lance such a better buy than the blaster? silent

Melta

Hellion Posts : 44 Join date : 2011-06-05

I personally don't like heat lances, I prefer haywire blasters...

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