Imperial Guard Allies

So everyone else is doing it, why can't the dark kin have a go with Guard allies?

Obviously for one thing, the two are desperate allies, so scoring troops are a bit of an issue. That rules out taking the usual huge unit of amalgamated infantry squads, so I was thinking more along the lines of veteran squads plus the ubiquitous & horribly undercosted vendettas! This would solve the problem of our own flyers being a bit rubbish.

So something like this:

Company command squad, 4xflamers(70)
Veteran squad, 3xplasmaguns(115)
2xVendettas(260)

Total:445pts

Could swap in some meltaguns if you are short on anti-tank. The vendettas come on together as a unit, which is an advantage for a coordinated arrival from reserves, but means the flyers have to stay together & can't split fire.

The DE force making up the primary detachment would be composed of lots of troops, a cheap HQ, and maxed-out ravagers.

So any good ideas for using the Imperial Guard?

Well chimeras would fitt ouer paper plane armoury?

Vendettas are great wherever their used

Niiai wrote:

Well chimeras would fitt ouer paper plane armoury?

Do you think so? Chimeras are relatively tough and slow transports that I can't see being a particular help to your average Dark Eldar force, especially since the troops inside would not be able to score.

I see desperate allies being used as suicide or distraction units, or as providing something very useful that DE just don't do well (such as decent flyers). They also need to be able to operate on their own i.e not mixed in with the DE troops where the OEO rule comes into play. So deep strikers and flyers are good for that.

But how about IG heavy stuff? A squadron of Griffons, Hydra or Leman Russ?

I would use IG as slave allies... Penal legion, Combat Psychers Squad and either a Primaris Psycher or a Commissar

Minimum HQ and Troops, 3 Hydras, 3 Vendettas

Count Adhemar wrote:

Minimum HQ and Troops, 3 Hydras, 3 Vendettas

Whoa now, all in with the Guard allies there! Couldn't really fit that into a 1500pt list without it compromising the dark eldar part a bit too much, but could a nasty surprise for larger games.
Hydras would be useful if you were definitely facing lots of flyers, but the vendettas would handle them pretty well on their own. Certainly better than anything in the DE list. I'd prefer to throw in some griffons.

HQ:
Command Squad
Autocannon + 2 snipers

Vet
+ Harker (+1 to cover save, infiltrate USR, and H. Bolter, character also has FnP)
Autocannon
+ 3 snipers.
+Camo (+1 to cover save, stacking with harker)

Manticore.

410 points.



Manticore will kill any armoured unit.

All units have relatively high ranges.

Vets can objective camp as well as Eldar Pathfinders, with decent firepower.

STR 7 Autocannons fill that void within the DE army, as do the sniper rifles. Though the rifles can be swapped for the more expensive Plasma guns.

Could also give the HQ 4 plasma guns and load them in a Chimera for stupid amounts of damage.

DEldar fliers might not be the best, but they exist.
We lack heavy armour and bullet catchers, guard can provide either or both..

CCS
Vet Squad
Three Demolishers
615pts

Or
Lord Commissar
PCS
5 Infantry Squads
350 pts

You could add some special or heavy weapons in to the big guard blob and still be under 500pts.
I know from experience that charging 50 guardsmen hurts, even just lasrifles, add in flamers and plasma guns and rocket launchers and it adds up.
And what then?
LD 10, stubborn, with rerolls. You have to kill every single guardsman
Give the Lord Commisar a Powerfist and challenge away with your 5 squad sergeants and you can actually win combats, he's going to be hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's at AP2

The most common ally of IG I see is a primus psyker, 10 vets with 3 flamers and a vendetta. Less than 300 points and provides AA along with so e template fun... Then again that's mostly used with marines!

Yeah but for less than 300 points I can take two Voidravens, with two, S9 lances, rather than two S9 none lances, plus void mines.
Or two Razorwings with 4 S8 lances and 8 missiles.

You could argue a Vendetta is better than a Razor, but it isnt better than two.

In my view anyway,

But them as allies means you 3 ravagers on the table plus the allies flyers. Much better IMO

Exactly... It's not costing you valuable heavy choices.

And the vendetta is far better for its price then a pair of razor wings...

4 dark lances nets 1.3 glance or better vs av12 (vendetta)

3 TL las cannon nets 2.25 glance or better vs av10 (razor wing) and costs less than half the price of the pair!

For AA, it really is one of if not the best choice by far

Massaen wrote:

and costs less than half the price of the pair!

Except it doesnt, because a Vendetta costs 130 PLUS a HQ and a Troop, all in thats 250pts minimum.

Thats an expensive way to save a heavy support.

We can get a decent flier.
We cant get a tank squadron or an unbreakable infantry mob

Having to take a squad or two to hitch a ride in your vendettas is not really a disadvantage - you get to disembark some quite nice multi-special weapons squads pretty much where you need them. Right in your opponent's face ideally! Plasmaguns, meltaguns and flamers can all be useful additions to a DE force when able to be deployed in this way.

Sure, to get allies you need HQ+troops minimum, but they can be useful too if you choose carefully, so can be reckoned separately from the vendettas when make raw price comparisons.

The problem with the infantry mob for DE is that they don't score or even deny objectives, which rather ruins their defensive merits. You could make it more aggressive by adding Captain Al'Rahem so they outflank, but it just doesn't feel as useful as the solid AA & AT vendettas can bring.

Got no issue with bringing some heavy tanks though!

My 50 bullet catchers were going to get ordered up

I must admit, I hadnt considered transporting the Vets in the Vendetta, which adds to the utility somewhat

I'd take cheap HQ, possibly with Master of the Fleet for the more reliable entry of reserves (Vendetta and Reavers). Then a Vendetta with a Vet Squad inside and lastly a Manticore. I don't know how many points this comes to though.

Fairly sure the master of fleet won't impact DE reserves...

Regardless of the tax to bring a vendetta, its till far and away better then our flyers, be it for AA, AT or transport

Massaen wrote:

Fairly sure the master of fleet won't impact DE reserves...

Regardless of the tax to bring a vendetta, its till far and away better then our flyers, be it for AA, AT or transport

Ah yea. And I just found out it's 30 points! I'd probably just got with:

CCS - 50pts (AC if I had the points for it)
Vets w/3xF - 85
Vendetta - 130
Manticore - 160

= 425

Vertigo wrote:

Vets can objective camp as well as Eldar Pathfinders, with decent firepower.

The problem here is that Guard allies are desperate allies, so they can't claim or contest objectives. Such a unit would likely get in your way as you try to avoid OEO tests..
I agree that trying to squeeze in some S7 shooting is a good idea though.