interesting rules tidbit

played a 1500 pt list today of straight Eldar. my ally had Ultramarines, and our opponents were Dark Angel Terminators and Freebooter Orks.

on turn two, it became necessary for me to use my Farseers Psychic abilities, of which i had rolled on the telepathy table for new powers. the Farseer was attached to a squad of Howling Banshees led by my Warlord Jain Zar, and all were embarked in a Brightlance Wave Serpent. the idea i had was to bring the serpent close to some termies who had deep struck right near one of our objectives, and unleash the Primaris Power of Psychic Scream.

went in to re-read the Psychic rules since i know in 5th we were allowed to cast powers while embarked and wanted to make sure we could do the same thing in 6th. found out i couldn't, but it was the sentence further down that caught my eye and created a laughable situation. you can use a blessing on yourself, your vehicle, or the unit in the vehicle with you, but i could not target the terminators since i do not have line of sight to them from the vehicle.

Inivisibilty reads that you can cast the blessing on any friendly UNIT within 24", and here's where the Dark Angle player became irritated. the Wave Serpent is considered a friendly unit, it is with 24" of my farseer, who's actually inside it, and it is my vehicle, since i'm the owning player. therefore the Waveserpent became invisible, giving it stealth and shrouded. this was clarified by and agreed upon by an Adepticon Judge. so imagine this scenario, you make your wave serpent invisible, roar it across the field, and unload on your next turn the squad of banshees/scorpions/wraithblades into the Tau/Chaos/Marine, what ever have you, lines and proceed to decimate them. being invisible granting stealth and shrouded, it gives the tank a 3+ cover save in the open, not sure if this would stack with the 5+ jink save, pretty sure it won't, but if it does then you have a 2+ save for the tank. regardless, though even a 3+ is a nice improvement over 5+, for something that is now a guarenteed delivery system. just thought i'd share this and let you all think and laugh about it.

Unless they changed smething in the new codex. You can't assault the turn you disembark from a wave serpent. So the unit would have to sit there and take the firepower of the entire enemy army for a turn.

Mushkilla wrote:

Unless they changed smething in the new codex. You can't assault the turn you disembark from a wave serpent. So the unit would have to sit there and take the firepower of the entire enemy army for a turn.

that makes no sense, in my movement phase i disembark from the vehicle, and declare my intention to charge, and then on the assault phase i test to see if my charge range is sufficient to allow me the assualt. it's not like the tank is in my way and we have to go around the thing.

at any rate though, invisibilty only lasts till your next turn, so you just do your psychic test, and then place the invisibility on the squad this time rather than the tank. the only problem with that is your waiting for 3 turns to assault, which is stupid when Marines can assault on the same turn they disembark.

we need a vehicle that allows us to do the same thing, and i find it hard to believe that in millions of years the Eldar have never encountered a situation where they need to assault immediately after disembarking, thus facilitating the creation of an assault vehicle.

wave serpents are not assault vehicles

SebastionSynn wrote:

that makes no sense, in my movement phase i disembark from the vehicle, and declare my intention to charge, and then on the assault phase i test to see if my charge range is sufficient to allow me the assualt. it's not like the tank is in my way and we have to go around the thing.

You don't declare charges at the end of the movement phase (that's warhammer fantasy). You declare charges at the start of the charge sub-phase of the assault phase.

As for assauting out of transports unfortunately it's clear as day:

"After disembarking, models can shoot,... but cannot declare a charge in their subsequent assault phase" - BRB page 79

Thankfully dark eldar vehicles are all open topped which means they are assault vehicles.

SebastionSynn wrote:

Marines can assault on the same turn they disembark.

Marines can only do that out of land raiders.

SebastionSynn wrote:

we need a vehicle that allows us to do the same thing, and i find it hard to believe that in millions of years the Eldar have never encountered a situation where they need to assault immediately after disembarking, thus facilitating the creation of an assault vehicle.

It was one of the changes that came with 6th edition, I think blood angels got hit the worst by it. Before you could assault after disembarking with a non assault vehicle as long as it didn't already move this turn. Maybe something in the Eldar update will alleviate this.

Mushkilla wrote:

You don't declare charges at the end of the movement phase (that's warhammer fantasy). You declare charges at the start of the charge sub-phase of the assault phase.

it's so easy to mix the rules of these two games.

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Marines can only do that out of land raiders.

that's what i was refering to. i also hate the fact that even the Super Heavy Scorpion doesn't have armor 14.

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It was one of the changes that came with 6th edition, I think blood angels got hit the worst by it. Before you could assault after disembarking with a non assault vehicle as long as it didn't already move this turn. Maybe something in the Eldar update will alleviate this.

anything that hurts space marines is welcome, but not when it screws my favorite army at the same time. -_- However, one can only hope that the new codex brings forth a change that will allow us to assault again, although i tend to doubt it. in my experience every time we gain we something that helps us, we end up with two or more things that nerf us badly, but we'll find out in 6 days.

There's been no mention of an Assault Transport at all for Eldar, which really sucks if you like Banshees, but there we go. An invisible Wave Serpent carrying Fire Dragons still has plenty of potential hilarity though, even with the points increase...

... but really... the best target for Invisibility in an Eldar army now?

Wraithknight. Find a bit of cover and give that man the 2+ armour save he deserves.

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... but really... the best target for Invisibility in an Eldar army now?
Wraithknight. Find a bit of cover and give that man the 2+ armour save he deserves.

based on the batrep, i don't think the wraithknight needs that kind of save, the necron player only succeeded in wounding the thing 3 times through the whole game, despite repeated attempts to kill it. granted he did state he was rolling crap rolls on his dice, so the batrep might be scewed because of that. regardless, we find out in 4 days and a wake-up.

SebastionSynn wrote:

based on the batrep, i don't think the wraithknight needs that kind of save, the necron player only succeeded in wounding the thing 3 times through the whole game, despite repeated attempts to kill it. granted he did state he was rolling crap rolls on his dice, so the batrep might be scewed because of that. regardless, we find out in 4 days and a wake-up.

Games Workshop exaggerating the effectiveness of their expensive new model in the days before it is released? I find it hard to imagine such a thing!!

Mushkilla wrote:

You don't declare charges at the end of the movement phase (that's warhammer fantasy)

Wrong, you declare charges at the beginning of the movement phase

SebastionSynn wrote:

based on the batrep, i don't think the wraithknight needs that kind of save, the necron player only succeeded in wounding the thing 3 times through the whole game, despite repeated attempts to kill it. granted he did state he was rolling crap rolls on his dice, so the batrep might be scewed because of that. regardless, we find out in 4 days and a wake-up.

the wraithknight will most likely be T8. Which all things considered makes it impervious to small arms fire. The problem is that small arms is not what will be pointed at it regardless. Most likely its going to smoke down Plas, Melta, Lascannons, and Missile Launchers. Of which the only thing it would get a save from if it had a 2+ would be missiles.

That being said, it not having a 2+ does hurt it alot... but I feel in a full CWE army you can heal it enough to not really worry about it much.

Shadows Revenge wrote:

the wraithknight will most likely be T8. Which all things considered makes it impervious to small arms fire. The problem is that small arms is not what will be pointed at it regardless. Most likely its going to smoke down Plas, Melta, Lascannons, and Missile Launchers.

well i don't know about the rest of you but i know for a fact that that's what will be pointed at mine, there's only one other eldar player in my area right now. there's 3 Necron players, 4 Tyranid players, 4 Ork players, 2 Sisters of Battle, all of which includes me in that list. so far i'm the only one working on Dark Eldar. there are at least 6 Tau players, and every single person, other than me, that shows up at the store has either Marines of some type, or Imp Gaurd. with my Eldar i have been able to hold my own against all of them except for one Tau player, who also plays Grey Knights, he's the only one i haven't been able to beat yet without help of some kind, hopefully, when my Dark Eldar and Sisters are ready for the table that will change. anyways, 2 days and a wake-up and we find out whether we've been granted the favor of the gods or nerf batted to the groin.

based on the rules in the new codex for the Wave Serpent this trick of making the tank invisible works even better. The Wave Serpent can fire off the Serpent Shield but in doing so loses the force field effect until the next turn. Make it invisible and it still has a 3+ cover save due to stealth and shrouded. Jink is also a cover save, so added to the invisibility, it gives the tank a 2+ cover, even in the open.

So now you can still gain benefit from a serious save, and fire off the Serpent Shield weapon with pretty much impunity. Add to that the Laser Lock rule for the Scatter Laser, and a Shuriken Cannon upgrade, and your talking about a total potential of 14 shots. Load in a unit of Wraithguard with D-Scythes and it's a death knell for just about any unit you set your sights on.

This could also work for the Wraithknight, but as he has an item that gives him a 5+ invul, depending on how you equip him it might be beneficial for him or better used elsewhere. I do still agree with the above though, even with a 5+ invul, and toughness 8, he's still going to see a lot of fire coming his way. At least until people figure out that there may be other stuff on the table that needs to be destroyed just as badly, leaving them in a serious quandry as to what to kill first.

good job us DE wont worry too much about the wraithknight. interesting with the invis powers and he can get a buff from +1 armour

I have a question about the Wraithblades. It says that a ghost sword is a +1 strength ap3 weapon. The wraith blades come with two so wouldn't that make them strength 7?

I don't think it stacks, Bacon. I think it would just be S6 for each attack.

Ah that's what I though. ah well, it would have been cool, but in the end strength 7 isn't that much different from strength 6, they both wound T4 on 2s and ID T3