DE as allies for CwE

First off this is one part "hey I'm the new guy" and the other part is as the thread title reads. Another hope i have for this thread is too make it a place for coming up with effective detachments of DE for Craftworld eldar lists of all sizes. Also of interest is what units of DE stand out as something CwE don't have.

I have been a long time fan of the CW eldar and love the look of DE, so obviously with the new book I have moved my craftworlders back onto the project bench.

I just picked up the DE 'dex and have been going thru it trying to discern which units would fill rolls left out of the type of CwE list I might field. I see myself wanting some fast assault units that can make it across the table while my Wraith guard march up and the DA move and shoot. I am definitely interested in the cool looking guys like hellions, scourges and the incubi but don't want to overbuild the list with too much of the same thing.

As an allied detachment does a unit of hellions with the baron and a unit of Incubi in a transport sound like a sound investment? It clocks in at around 540 depending on wargear etc and would probably be for a 1500pt list (and up).


Sorry if this is a redundant or "newbish" post... Just trying to get back in the swing of all thing 40k and space-elf!

Odly enough our transport's upgrades buff elder more than us. grisly trophies are fantastic for warlocks.

When it comes to allies I would say the strongest things unique to DE are Dark lances (3 shots are on 1 ravager), Combat drugs (pg 25), pain tokens (pg 25), and Assault transports.

I personally love Incubi and almost field them all the time. They are cool, they have AP2 weapons with +1 strength, the Klavex is like a IC because he has onslaught and murderous assault and a nice flamer but buying all that is expensive points wise.

Wyches on the other hand are pretty awesome for when you get them in close combat. They have a 4+ invul in close combat only and 6+ regular for ranged attacks. They seriously tie up units like Terminators and while they may or may not kill the unit they keep them busy because of the 50 percent chance to live from the invul. A major thing is Combat Drugs that you can get while using them and you can find those on page 25.

Our Archon's can purchase phantasm grenade launchers so if you have a unit like banshees that lack offensive grenades he gives the unit the ability to charge in buildings.

Poison shots kill MC's one shot. Its true I did it two times in a row one unit shot then got the kill. They wound on a 4+ no matter what the toughness is, and are AP5. I rarely see MC's ever since.

Grotuesques and wracks come with a pain token that gives feel no pain from the start. They have a higher toughness value also so if you want to increase your Toughness to T4 or T5 thats a good option. I personally dont use them anymore, they dont suit my play style, even though the wracks do have poison melee weapons that wound on 4+ also.

I could go on all day so im gonna stop now. Just read the codex and play a few DE only games and you will start getting the feel for them because they are the hardest army to learn and will take a while to grasp.

Best cheap Ally

Hemi 50
3 Trueborn in Venom with Night shield 130 or so
3 Wrack in Venom 95 or so
Ravenger 100 or os

400 points gets you every turn for the whole game ( until killed by heavy fire power whcih is not hitting your prisms)
3 S8 Lance shots 36"
36 Poison shots 36"

Get your assault from the eldar. Though 7 incubi or 10 Wracks are an option ..as they do things the eldar dont ( incubi ar egood armour and AP2 , Wracks versus T5+ )

bklooste wrote:

Get your assault from the eldar. Though 7 incubi or 10 Wracks are an option ..as they do things the eldar dont ( incubi ar egood armour and AP2 , Wracks versus T5+ )

And get out of Assault Vehicles

OP - that would be a reasonable investment. But be warned; if try to charge them ahead to tie up parts of the enemy while your guys engage, don't expect a great deal due to their fragility. They would make a superb counter-attack unit though. Take a look in the tactics forum, read Plastikente's guide and have a think... particularly on the Hellions.

i like the Idea of an archon with banshees, they are one unit that I would really like to get some mileage out of.

The next big question is what is an effective DE anti air unit? is the fighter worth it or just throw a bunch of high str shots at it and hope for 6.s to hit? I realize the quad gun is an option hear, and so are walkers with Eml's but the walkers can get pretty pricey for a fairly fragile squad...

@wanderingblade, thanks, I will read up on those tactic articles tomorrow!

DE are screwed when it comes to that, I ignore the fliers and conquer what I can on the ground. The Fighter and bomber only have one attack for AA weaponry but they are 2 Darklances on Razorwing and 2 Voidlances (str 9) on the Voidraven and both have low armor. I think still, the Ravagers are the best heavies at DE disposal with or without AA.

Reavers make a nice retinue for a jetbike autarch/farseer.

They are the ultimate jack of all trades unit, anti infantry, anti tank, the ability to redeploy anywhere and do damage (bladevanes), good enough in assault to overpower backfield units, can contest objectives late game, and bring a tone of resilience. For an army full of specialists like eldar, reavers bring the ability to adapt/react and plug holes wherever they are needed.

The Baron can add a lot to an Eldar force. One thing I've noticed, is the lack of cover ignoring stuff across both armies. DE pretty much only have the LFG and CWE only really have the grenade pack. Annoying if you want to SHOOT something out of a good position or off an objective/ADL (in situations when you can't feasibly assault them). I guess this can be mitigated somewhat if the Farseer gains perfect timing from Divination.

mug7703 wrote:

The Baron can add a lot to an Eldar force. One thing I've noticed, is the lack of cover ignoring stuff across both armies. DE pretty much only have the LFG and CWE only really have the grenade pack. Annoying if you want to SHOOT something out of a good position or off an objective/ADL (in situations when you can't feasibly assault them). I guess this can be mitigated somewhat if the Farseer gains perfect timing from Divination.

Wave serpents shield ignores cover as does the night spinner and shadow weaver platforms so does the tempest launcher..

What is LFG? I didnt know DE had ignores cover weapon heh.

I agree with mush though, Reavers and incubi (incubi) are awesome. I normaly field one or the other or both rarely because of points costs.

EDIT: oh your talking about Liquifier gun. Yeah, there is the bloodstone from the Klaivex and the Shatter shard from the Haemonculus if we are talkin about flame templetes.

DE can bring alot ot a CWE army. First and for most is poison. DE poison is literally one of or best strengths. Trueborn and Kabalites in venoms are your best bet for this, but you can get flavorfull with stuff like scourges as well if you want some nice ones.

The other thing we can do well is lance saturation. Now while CWE lances are stupidly cheaper than ours now (come on... 5 pts...) a Ravager and some raiders can help bring you more saturation. Add in some fast moving blasters with reavers and blasterborn, and you got yourself some powerful S8 AP2 shots.

Lastly what we bring is some really decent assault units. Incubi, beasts, and grots all fit that profile. Add in a tooled up Archon or Succubi, and you got something that can quickly and effectively swoop in and open up a can of whoop ass!!!

We are a decent Ally for CWE, just like the reverse is true as well

Pretty sure the 5 point Lance on the Serpent is an error, tho, and will be FAQ'd. Every other Lance in the codex costs 20 points, 15 if they're replacing an existing weapon like Falcon's Shuriken Cannon. Still a little cheaper than ours (which are 25 points) but not by much. And Ravager still has the best Lance/points ratio.

Well a ravager sounds like a sure bet for some builds, And I am liking the baron and succubus as ally HQ.

How do you all feel about putting the Baron with banshees? does that mitigate their weakness of getting into combat without putting too many eggs in one basket? I realize the banshees can run an extra 3", but he can move 12 in the movement, so if u just leap frog him to the front of the pack in the movement phase and then move the banshees over him in the shooting phase they shouldn't loose that much manuverability...?

Nomic wrote:

Pretty sure the 5 point Lance on the Serpent is an error, tho, and will be FAQ'd. Every other Lance in the codex costs 20 points, 15 if they're replacing an existing weapon like Falcon's Shuriken Cannon. Still a little cheaper than ours (which are 25 points) but not by much. And Ravager still has the best Lance/points ratio.

Walkers also cost 10 points .. it will stay as the base unit is so over priced.

GodimusPryme wrote:

Well a ravager sounds like a sure bet for some builds, And I am liking the baron and succubus as ally HQ.

How do you all feel about putting the Baron with banshees? does that mitigate their weakness of getting into combat without putting too many eggs in one basket? I realize the banshees can run an extra 3", but he can move 12 in the movement, so if u just leap frog him to the front of the pack in the movement phase and then move the banshees over him in the shooting phase they shouldn't loose that much manuverability...?

Personally (or course) I would suggest leaving out banshees. I know the initiative mask it a major thing but just not worth it.

Also if you plan on taking Harlequin make sure you say weither is the craftworld verson or the DE version. They both have a different version of Tears than the other. Just pick the one you prefer. Some people swear by the 2D6x2 but personally I think it would depend on the map you are playing, if you are on a map that has alot of buildings, or if they have ignores cover, and the distance of the weapon.