Old School Army

So I started playing Warhammer a long time ago.  I was around 12.  My brother was painting a space marines army.  this particular model I thought looked really cool, his name was Marius Calgar.  

Anyways, I wanted to try it and managed to build a small ~750 dark eldar army.  I thought the idea of space pirates seemed cool.  Little while later, a girl he knew was giving away a fairly sizeable Dark Eldar army.  Sweet!  So I combined the two and had a great sized, poorly thoughtout army.  Which was fine for a 12 year old who just wanted to play.

Heres the thing: I am now 26 and have recently found a portion of my old army.  This army was played several editions ago.  My book was tattered and falling apart.

I have the new codex, I think.  My question is, after playing a few games inwhich I have lost very craptastically, how would you guys improve on the portion of the army I found to make it a feasible attempt at winning a match?

Below is what I have found:

Archon x2
Haemonculus x1
Drazhar x1
Kabalite Warrior x40
Wyches x10
Beastmaster x1 (no doggies)
Scourges x5
Incubi x6
Grotesques x4


This list is unplayably aweful.  

A friend of mine has started up a small gaming shop and it has introduced a wealth of new young interested gamers who are trying out Warhammer.  I would like to join in the fun once again.  

I figured, I have *some* Dark Eldar, wouldnt it be cheaper to rebuild what I have?

How would you do it?

I would say that you have a quite good start of an army on your hands and with a few purchases you will indeed be stacking the army fully. I will go through the different org slots discussing what's missing and the importance of adding to it;

HQ; You are more or less good here, what could be added is more named characters if that fits your style. 1-2 more heamys is a possibility as well. But both options are low priority.

Elites; The three most used Elite units you more or less have covered already in Incubi (rarely used in bigger groups than 4-5), grotesques (same here, 4 is max used in a raider with a HQ) and trueborn. Depending on the weapon setup of your warriors and the local gaming places and their policy on proxying (units/weapons) you might need to purchase some special weapon as the basic kits of warriors in older models definately contained less special weapons. Less blasters for instance. Not high priority.

Troops; Another 10 wyches could possibly be useful but not high priority. Weapons on warriors (see trueborne discussion above), not priority. Wracks, if you run a Coven army (heamy or Urien Rakarth) HQ, wracks can be useful as a troop choice. Not priority.

Fast attack: You have scourges already, the other most popular option is Reavers but they are not a MUST have unit. Low priority. Beastpacks and Hellions are more or less the same.

Heavy support; Here you will definately need some shopping. Ravagers/Taloi/Jetfighter depending on where you are going. A "standard" army will for sure want some Ravagers and Taloi/Jetfighter are more if you tailor your lists to specific themes/purposes.

Dedicated transport: Priority number 1! Dark Eldar are quick, and our quickness comes from our transports. More or less all of are infantry units and HQ are better off in transports. 2-4 Raiders and 3-6 Venoms depending on what your plan is.

In short. Make a more detailed plan on how you want to tailor your first list, as it is most likely better to play your initial list a fair few times before changing, just to learn the inns and outs. You will get crushed in the beginning as DE is very specialist and if you are not doing the right thing, you will be more punished for it than another army as we are the biggest glassjaw there is.
Once the plan is done, get some transports and Heavy SUpport options and do whatever minor changes needed in troops/HQ/fast/elites depending on your chosen style/theme/list.

Best of luck!

Alright, so what I'm thinking is:

Archon

Archon

Warriors x10
+Raider

Warriors x10
+Raider

Warriors x10
+Raider

Warriors x10
+Raider

Grotesques x4
+Raider

Incubi x4
+Venom

Incubi x5
+Venom

Scourges x5

Ravager

Ravager

I dont have the book infront of me so I'm not sure on point totals. If theres enough, would consider adding Razorwing.


That would look like buying:

5 raiders
2 venoms
2 ravagers
5 incubi


That would be much cheaper than a whole other army.

List looks fairly well balanced, 11 DL shots, and plenty of possible AI. What you most likely should do is add a group of wyches in one one of the raiders, remove one the 5man incubi group and create a Kabalite Trueborne unit in the venom initially used for incubi.

The reasoning behind this:

Incubi and Grotesques both need to be coupled with a HQ, Incubi needs the archon for the phantasm grenade launcher (incubi NEEDS to go first when charging into cover) and the Grotesques need a HQ otherwise you most likely lose them come round 3-5 (statistically) to Berzerkers rage.
I personally would rather run the Heamy with Grotesques than a second archon but to eaches own.

With standard Org Chart you only get 2 HQs == Incubis are gone and the venom and an Elite slot is freed up. Splinterborn or Blasterborn are both viable options to be used in said venom, you get these by removing one warrior group and essentially making em Truebornes instead, which option you pick of course depends on your preferences and possibly the weapon availability for the warriors. This in turn free up another raider which can be used for Wyches. Wyches add another dimension to your list, a decent unit for tarpitting and a great tankbusting unit.

Just my 2 cents! With said changes you can decrease your shopping list and increase strength of your list. At least that is my opinion.

/C

Anyone else?

Bamp

Well so far Ive bought 2 venoms, a razorwing, a raider and a ravager. Still losing, which is expected lol.

What are your wargear and options?

For sure I would buy another 2 Venoms, 2 Raiders and a Ravager.
Those are solid options which can work with a lot of different builds.
Wyches are also good if your face lot's of vehicles. They work great in Venoms with dual SC.
I do prefer also a squad of 10 in a Raider with a Hekatrix for some staying power.
Maybe a Talos but they work better in pairs or more.

If I read this correct you use now two Archons? That's isn't worth it. Typically you see 1 Archon maybe joined by a Heamy to make Wracks scoring and provide an extra pain token.

Info on your local meta is also interesting and what your preferred playstyle is.

I have thus far expanded my model list and wargear to the following:

Archon x2 (shadowfield, Venomblade)
Haemonculus x1
Drazhar x1
Kabalite Warrior x40 (2 dark lances, several Splinter Cannon, the rest are Splinter rifles)
Sybarite x1
Wyches x10 (Haywire grenades, Hekatrix)
Beastmaster x1 (no doggies)
Scourges x5 (Sybarite, 2 dark lances, 2 splinter cannons)
Incubi x6
Grotesques x4
Venom x3 (Dual splinter cannons)
Raider (Flickerfield)
Ravager (Flickerfield)
Razorwing (Flickerfield)
Reavers x3 (Heatlance, splinter rifle x2)

So far I have been changing my lists up each game to see which list works for me and I havnt quite settled yet.

Having said that, I really like the incubi, reavers, and venoms. I dont really care for the razorwing, it just seems too inefficient and the kill rate doesnt seem that high. The rest of the models I am pretty indifferent about.

I can field almost to 2000 points and everyone else seems to be struggling to get to 1200. These people have too many hobbies and not enough money. I have considered buying another blister of incubi and running 9 with an archon in a raider. Have also considered buying two more haemonculus and spreading those out to my two incubi units and fielding my grotesques with the last haemonculus.

I tend to flat out everything the first turn to try and survive the opponents firs turn shooting phase and then deploy and start shooting. We are still learning the new rules set as some of us havnt played since like 3rd edition so theres a lot of new stuff. Poisoned weapons, what?? I frequently forget to keep an eye on my pain tokens and forget to roll for night fighting although I dont think it would be that helpful anyway.

I would expand in the following order

1-2 Ravagers
1-2 Raiders
1-2 Venoms (how you want to transport is of course up to specific lists, but currently you "only" have 25unit carry capacity)
Beastmaster + Beasts (10+4) (this is a heavy chunk of dough unless you plan to convert)
6 Reavers


The giant squad of Incubi tends to be bad because of two things
1, you lose saturation. In short, the Raider with incubi will be 100% bulletmagnet and Incubi cant stand shooting. Essentially these guys will be a giant bulls-eye-target.
2, If you reach CC you will slaughter whatever you are fighting too quickly, again leaving incubi in the open to be gunned down.

First one can of course work in your favor if you work the board etc, but generally we want to construct list with most targets equally juicy. Second one is more opponent specific and not always something you can work around.

I fully agree with you on the razorwing. Overpriced compared to a ravager for instance. Just my experience.

How does everyone feel about wracks? I think they are very stupid looking and dont want to invest in them but how do they field?

I have for sure decided on one more ravager.

Trying to see the worth in wyches.

I personally am not a huge fan of wracks, although they can be fairly tough objective holders. As for wyches their main use for me is as a sucide unit with haywire (plus they bring another venom to the table.

I agree with Phiandros about getting Ravagers over using the razorwing, and increasing # of raiders/ venoms. The more targets the btter, and what I like to do is double everything up for the most part (I am experimenting with a large beast squad). If you do plan to run beast masters you should definitely cconvert (there are a lot of places online where you can find cool conversions , I am cheap so use my fenrisian wolves from my space wolves as kymerae and my scarab swarms from my necrons as razorwings)

Incubi are great but they are also expensive point wise which means that if you run a lot you risk leaving not enough points elsewhere.

Bought another raider and will pick up another ravager this weekend. I think I'll pass on the wracks for now. I agree with you on the razorwing issue. However, my girlfriend picked it out because it was pretty and I let her paint it. Which means I have to use it no matter how terribad they are

Girls arent meant for war imo

This is my revised list.  I think I'll be happy with it for now.


HQ Archon 1 Agoniser, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, PGL, Haywire Grenades

HQ Archon 1 Agoniser, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, PGL, Haywire Grenades

Troop Warriors 10 Splinter Cannon x1
Raider 1 Flickerfield, Splinter racks

Troop Warriors 10 Splinter Cannon x1
Raider 1 Flickerfield, Splinter racks

Troop Warriors 10 Splinter Cannon x1
Raider 1 Flickerfield, Splinter racks

Troop Warriors 10 Splinter Cannon x1
Raider 1 Flickerfield, Splinter racks

Troop Wyches 5 Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser
Venom 1 Splinter Cannon x2

Troop Wyches 5 Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser
Venom 1 Splinter Cannon x2

Elite Incubi 3
Venom 1 Splinter Cannon x2

Elite Incubi 3
Venom 1 Splinter Cannon x2

Elite Trueborn 4 Blasters x4
Venom 1 Splinter Cannon x2

Fast Attack Reavers 6 Heat Lance x1

Fast Attack Reavers 6 Heat Lance x1

Heavy Support Ravager 1 Flickerfield

Heavy Support Ravager 1 Flickerfield

Heavy Support Razorwing 1 Flickerfield, Necrotoxin Missiles x4

You should check out the DMG output math-hammer done one special weapons. Agonizers are underwealming compared to other alternatives. Vblade and huskblade both outperforms it generally.

Your list is solid, a bit heavy on upgrades for my taste but good!