1850 Tournament lists

At the end of the month we have our biggest tournament around here (40 players). Since I'm one of the organizers I don't intend to have the most competitive list even playing with DE. I took the list for fun play, while still being able to win most games. After that tournament I'll be heading to Serbia to attend the ETC and ESC. The list I'm going to use there is illegal elsewhere since it uses the old Eldar Codex for psychic defense.

Cabal of Dusk Eternal:
Archon, hb, sf, 125 (left spike of the trident)
3 Grots, Ab, raider, 175 (Archons babysitters)
4 x 5 Kabalite, bl, venom, 125 -> 500 (someone needs to do the work of killing and capturing)
5 Wyches, hwg, venom 125 (the  noob slayer)
5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120 (reserve Raider for the grots when theirs get blown up)
3 Beastmasters, 2 ref 10 khy 186 (center spike of the trident)
2 x Ravager 105 -> 210 (early game bullet catchers)
Farseer, ejb, 115 (Zoo leader, LD10 is great on them)
3 windraider jetbike squad 51 (the only Eldar troop that I own)
Wrightknight 240 (Right spike of the trident and it also shoots)
1847

Three threats that supposed to close the enemy quickly trailed by  shooty elements. No baron so that's something I need to test out. The second Raider is a back up plan for the Grots. Wrightknight is just plain awesome.
Any real flaws in the list? I'm early  because I need to get everything painted for the tournament. I should be able to get a test game Wednesday or Thursday.

Ok, not much commenting going on.

But. First game behind against SW/IG and a player who supposed to know what he's doing. His list was

2x Runepriest, TDA, combiplasma, (both with Divination)
5x TDA Wolfscout, 2combiplasma, combimelta combiflamer, cyclone, pod
4x 5-9 Greyhunters, 2 plasma, 1 melta 1 flamer, all in a pods
1 longfang pack, pod
CCS, flamers
PCS
2 x 10 guardsman, ac
Vendetta, hb
Griffon.

Mission, Emperors Will & Relic (all obj 4 points)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Warlord traits, Night fight T1 for DE and some nogood for wolves
1 st turn was given to DE and no seize attempt
Farseer spells: Guide, shooty power, 4++

I deployed my forces to the middle of the deployment zone with dogs and WK in the middle front. Grotrider was nearby with Wyches raider. Both ravagers were in cover. 3 venoms were also deployed with troops inside. (been responding to a lot more on enemy list in deploying troops in ro out of transports in the beginning) 2 Kabalitevenoms in reserves along with jetbikes. Farseer was giving her LD10 to the beastpack.

The opponent deployed his guard in separate squads behind some ruins along with the griffon. Long fang on the other side of the board with cyclone terminator in the lead to catch bullets. Rest vere off board after deployment.

T1  I advanced ahead regardles of the three pods that'll make the appearance with greyhinters and ofcourse forgot the put the powers on. Shooting phase ravager get a clear shot to the open topped griffon exploding it. The explosion took 4 guardsman with it including one autocannon. Those guardsman ran of the board. I also managed to kill the other autocannon due to a severe deployment failure. His guncrew was in the open to get a clear shot at my skimmers. 2 Venoms and Wrightkinght wiped the long fangs to the last man.

On his turn the first three hunter groups came. They managed to do next to nothing to except kill 5 Khymerae, who passed their morale check. The reminding guardsmen charged wyches Raider and managed to wreck it. Wyches passed pinning test.

My second turn I maneuvered to charge Beast herd and WK to hunter squad with flamer but it failed its morale after shooting ran to safety since I only got 9 for my charge roll and 11 was needed. Grots and Archon managed to charge his Warlord after disappointing liguifier AP roll of 5. Neather side managed to inflict many wounds to the other and DE won only by 2. The wyches that lost a rider charged CCS and although they won the battle continued.

SW/IG T2 and no Vendetta. Only two pods came in and the other was empty the other bearing last greyhunters who dropped to help the guardsmen. They shot two melta to a Venom missing one and getting a 1 for armor penetration. Bolters took one HP off. The Second Wolf priest on the other end of the table with his reminding 4 hunters downed a Venom that was immobilized by them previous turn. Afterwards they failed to charge now walking Kabalites who were on my home objective. In the Center of the board Archon and Grots were having a stand still against remaining Greyhunters.

My turn Three broke his last wishes of being able to win or draw the game. Farseer to get any powers on due to Runepriest nearby. His whole left flank collapsed and I was able to wipe out every model of that end of the board and securing my home object except for the still in reserves vendetta with it's flamer PCS. Wrightknight exploded a pod with heavy wraithcannons and managed to kill one of the wounded grots in cc. My wyches that were close to his home objective and last GH squad charged it after it lost almost all of its models except Wolfguard in TDA and 2 hunters. His Vendetta came also and managed to only stun one of my Venoms. He also had his tag-team on of two combiplasma Wolfguard Terminators coming in exploding a venom near the center of the board killing 3 while I passed both pinning and morale. I Challenged his Warlord with my archon, but failed to wound while he was able to take of me shadow field. Reminding two grots killed last of his greyhunters in that battle and the sole surviving Wolfguard ran over the wyches who had gained three pain tokens (played wrong apparently )

T4 I managed to get 4++ on my Archon and grots who finally killed his warlord and got shot by the Vendetta next turn. I moved my kabalites to crab the Relic and killed all of his Marines. Despite hitting multiple time (Aided by guided ravager) I only got a stun to the vendetta which was downgraded to shaken by extra armor. We decided to quit at this point because his vendetta was in no position do threat my Kabalites on objectives. Full Victory for my for having FB, LB, StWL and all objectives against his possible LB.

This was my opponents (although having played almost as long as I) one of the first games with guard allies or the IG for that matter. And it showed. As DE are not very common around here the three games I played against him with my DE have been very similar in result. In his defense he's an able player who position himself quite well frequently.

I think my list with it's three CC threats and great midfield presence along with mobile shooting support works very well. In this game the Wrightknight was not very visible but it helped to guard the relic so that he didn't dare drop near it. It is also quite immune to Jaws with I5. Archon and grots were a bit of a disappointment for me but I can see the potential of it. S3 hurts a lot here against marines.

ok a few things of note here.

Obviously your going for competitive here so ill try and get the list way.

Firstly beast pack units are bum without someone with phantasm grenade launcher. If they charge into a aegis there gunna die very quickly. They also need razorwing flocks just to cause threat to av 2

Theres no anti air detterrent

Put Nightshields on the ravagers, these are brilliant against tau.

That grotesque unit and archon is so expensive and frankly its gunna get shot to pieces pretty quickly. Am not a fan with that. Reaver bikes would work better for your trident tbh.

Thank for commenting. I my self was so excited about the list that its hard to see the flaws of it. The need to explain the list selections in here hepls me think them through.

The beastpack is lessened by not having hit & run not missing grenades or rending. Still need to test it more know better.

I have possibility for two twin linked ravagers every game. It's not enough against flyer heavy list but it's certainly nothing.

As I said in my own posts this is not a adjusted to the max to be a tournament list (which list is at it's first version?). I'm not sure Reavers are ether the competitive players choice. As are perhaps not the Arhcon and grots. Baron would work better, but I'll try something else for now.

i think you were excited cause you brought the BIG guy......

Vasara great list IMO, I run something almost identical at 1.5k with the new addition of eldar allies (same except spiders vs knight + SC on jetbikes and singing spear).

I do have a few suggestions though:

Quote :

Archon, hb, sf, 125 (left spike of the trident)
3 Grots, Ab, raider, 175 (Archons babysitters)

Give the archon and aberration both venom blades and EAS on the raider, all 3 upgrades are pretty essential to the units success IMO. I also enjoy HWGs on archon but cant always fit them. Also if you've used these guys more than a few times how have you found 3 grots to be? Ive only run units of 4 and while 3 seems doable especially with the farseer around I just havent had the gumption to drop a model. I would suggest going to 4 but im considering dropping to 3 simply because mine rarely ever die and always make an impression so my advice is keep them. They consistantly perform for me even if just by absorbing fire and with a farseer capable of giving rerollable shadow field and/or 4++ invulns theyre pretty savage.

Quote :

4 x 5 Kabalite, bl, venom, 125 -> 500 (someone needs to do the work of killing and capturing)

Pretty standard although personally I just cant get behind blaster warriors so the blasters is one place id say to find a few pts although I realize many people have success this way. A grisly trophy would be nice as insurance for beasts and farseer psych tests. I like to use one to give a little higher priority to a bare squad and draw fire away from other venoms.

Quote :

5 Wyches, hwg, venom 125 (the  noob slayer)
5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120 (reserve Raider for the grots when theirs get blown up)

The backup raider could stand to have night shields. Ive found putting NS on the backup deployed in front (if no BLoS terrain) with AES raider behind it gaining cover works although we use abundant BLoS terrain so its not that big a deal for me (your terrain looks sufficient to possibly forego this as well though).

Quote :

3 Beastmasters, 2 ref 10 khy 186 (center spike of the trident)

IMO the evolution of the beast pack. I was an advocate for more flocks but recent dexes and proliferation of cover ignoring saw my packs move the same direction. 3 bm, 7-8 khy, 2 rwf are sufficient too though if pts are tight. Not sure about joining the seer to this unit without hit and run but I havent tried it out.

Quote :

2 x Ravager 105 -> 210 (early game bullet catchers)

Good, not much to add.

Quote :

Farseer, ejb, 115 (Zoo leader, LD10 is great on them)

Really consider adding the singing spear. This upgrade along with the venom blades is arguably the best spent 15 pts in the list. Even if hes running with the beasts the ability to hit a transport or even take a hull pt off a gunboat before charging is worth every penny to us.

Quote :

3 windraider jetbike squad 51 (the only Eldar troop that I own)

Consider the shuricannon here. 3 str 6 with pseudo rending is welcome in an army of poison plus it lets them actually be a ranged threat. I think I would prioritize this above a blaster due to range, 3 shots and 5 pts cheaper.

Quote :

Wrightknight 240 (Right spike of the trident and it also shoots)

Looks good although I havent tried it so not much to add.

So TLDR I dig the list and I guarantee its more powerful then it looks although it does suffer against flyers. Freeing up another 42 pts from 2 blasters and a khymera would net you 2 venom blades, a singing spear, enhanced aether sails, night shields, a shuriken cannon and some HWGs. A very worthy trade off for a couple single blaster shots and 1 khymera I would say.  

Also I just started using 6 spiders and they simply rock with an attached farseer to buff them plus TL our skimers and even give the grots invulns. The combination of the seer and spiders does really well to patch up our anti air as well. Highly recommended.

Hey Brom, can you share your Warp Spider + Farseer setup? Its Farseer on bike? And why is it so good against flyers? Thanks.

Sure although its pretty stock.. farseer, jb, ss + 6 spiders. Cheap and cheerful.

By patching up anti air I didnt mean to imply that its 'dedicated' AA, by no means. Thing is all my armies usually ignore AA options altogether although I will include twin linked weaponry and such if it suits my purpose.
With my pure dark eldar I really have no anti air at all, not even 'funtional' AA like TL high RoF shots. Now though I have the ability to twin link 12 str 7 and 1 str 9 shot, and even TL another unit like a ravager if necessary and the spiders are unbelievably fast. Its actually pretty decent although I usually try to avoid shooting at flyers at all except in times of desparation or no other targets available.

Brom wrote:

Vasara great list IMO, I run something almost identical at 1.5k with the new addition of eldar allies (same except spiders vs knight + SC on jetbikes and singing spear).

I do have a few suggestions though:

Quote :

Archon, hb, sf, 125 (left spike of the trident)
3 Grots, Ab, raider, 175 (Archons babysitters)

Give the archon and aberration both venom blades and EAS on the raider, all 3 upgrades are pretty essential to the units success IMO. I also enjoy HWGs on archon but cant always fit them. Also if you've used these guys more than a few times how have you found 3 grots to be? Ive only run units of 4 and while 3 seems doable especially with the farseer around I just havent had the gumption to drop a model. I would suggest going to 4 but im considering dropping to 3 simply because mine rarely ever die and always make an impression so my advice is keep them. They consistantly perform for me even if just by absorbing fire and with a farseer capable of giving rerollable shadow field and/or 4++ invulns theyre pretty savage.

I only used the unit once but against 10 greyhunters 3 grots were enough. And instead of aberration I had the liguifier. I generally don't like any upgrades as I like to keep my units as cheap and as numerous as possible. Can't count on 4++ and it was meant more to the Wrightknight.

Brom wrote:

Quote :

4 x 5 Kabalite, bl, venom, 125 -> 500 (someone needs to do the work of killing and capturing)

Pretty standard although personally I just cant get behind blaster warriors so the blasters is one place id say to find a few pts although I realize many people have success this way. A grisly trophy would be nice as insurance for beasts and farseer psych tests. I like to use one to give a little higher priority to a bare squad and draw fire away from other venoms.

I like my blasters here. I use then regulary to support my low AA. 12" move with venom and 18" snapshot to the Aircraft while venom kills some infantry.

Brom wrote:

Quote :

5 Wyches, hwg, venom 125 (the  noob slayer)
5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120 (reserve Raider for the grots when theirs get blown up)

The backup raider could stand to have night shields. Ive found putting NS on the backup deployed in front (if no BLoS terrain) with AES raider behind it gaining cover works although we use abundant BLoS terrain so its not that big a deal for me (your terrain looks sufficient to possibly forego this as well though).

Again as cheap as possible. Night shields are generally all or nothing equipment. I can't see the need for EAS. 30" move is plenty for me. Then 12" before charge on second turn. Wyches are mostly because of models collection and I have found then useful time to time.

Brom wrote:

Quote :

3 Beastmasters, 2 ref 10 khy 186 (center spike of the trident)

IMO the evolution of the beast pack. I was an advocate for more flocks but recent dexes and proliferation of cover ignoring saw my packs move the same direction. 3 bm, 7-8 khy, 2 rwf are sufficient too though if pts are tight. Not sure about joining the seer to this unit without hit and run but I havent tried it out.

THE SHARD (of whatever) is the thing here. Fearless Beastherd Yes Please. but I need to find the points somewhere. Perhaps one khymerae and two of those Blasters what I just defended above.

Quote :

2 x Ravager 105 -> 210 (early game bullet catchers)

Good, not much to add.

Brom wrote:

Quote :

Farseer, ejb, 115 (Zoo leader, LD10 is great on them)

Really consider adding the singing spear. This upgrade along with the venom blades is arguably the best spent 15 pts in the list. Even if hes running with the beasts the ability to hit a transport or even take a hull pt off a gunboat before charging is worth every penny to us.

Would have liked the spear but didn't have the points.

Brom wrote:

Quote :

3 windraider jetbike squad 51 (the only Eldar troop that I own)

Consider the shuricannon here. 3 str 6 with pseudo rending is welcome in an army of poison plus it lets them actually be a ranged threat. I think I would prioritize this above a blaster due to range, 3 shots and 5 pts cheaper.

I would take the shurikens away from these guys if I could  They are supposed to turbo every turn and not shoot. Ever.

Quote :

Wrightknight 240 (Right spike of the trident and it also shoots)

Looks good although I havent tried it so not much to add.

Brom wrote:

So TLDR I dig the list and I guarantee its more powerful then it looks although it does suffer against flyers. Freeing up another 42 pts from 2 blasters and a khymera would net you 2 venom blades, a singing spear, enhanced aether sails, night shields, a shuriken cannon and some HWGs. A very worthy trade off for a couple single blaster shots and 1 khymera I would say.  

Also I just started using 6 spiders and they simply rock with an attached farseer to buff them plus TL our skimers and even give the grots invulns. The combination of the seer and spiders does really well to patch up our anti air as well. Highly recommended.

[/quote]

Thanks very much for taking the time to comment so thoroughly. I can understand the venomblade for archon, but not aberration S5/6 is plenty enough in most cases to do the same trick. No spiders this time as it I have to take off some other stuff also.

I might have a 2000pts (double FOC, Forgeworld) tournament and thought of adding the Baroness to my list. Fearless beast pack from the beginning FTW!

Thanks for the mini report, insightful as ever.

Venom blade is great on the aberration, as it gives him an extra attack (as it gives him an extra close combat weapon), and allows him to re-roll to wound (it also means he's wounding T4-5 models on a re-rollable 2 without the need for furious charge). Without a venom blade an aberration (without FC) will on average inflicts 1.66 wounds on a T4 model (before saves) on the charge, with the venom blade 2.91 wounds, that's a 75% increase in damage for 5pts!

Improved list acording to resent conversations.

I also read the Death or Glory blog about the Eldar Allies. Good stuff there.

Cabal of Dusk Eternal:
Archon, hb, sf, 125
3 Grots, Ab, Vb, raider, 180
2 x 5 Kabalite, bl, venom, 125 -> 250
2 x 5 Kabalite, venom, 110 -> 220
5 Wyches, hwg, venom 125
5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120
3 Beastmasters, 2 rwf 9 khy 174
2 x Ravager 105 -> 210
Farseer, ejb, shard 155
3 windraider jetbike squad 51
Wrightknight 240
1850

The aberration got his ozing knife and Farseer stole Shard (of annais?) from the Vaults of her Craft world to make Beast pack Fearless.

And while I'm at it here's my take on 2000pts list for friendly tournament with double FOC and even Forge World (even with some gargantuan & structure points) allowed tournament.

Baroness 105
Archon, hb, sf, 125 (Warlord)
3 Grots, Ab, Vb, raider, 180
2 x 5 Kabalite, bl, venom, 125 -> 250
2 x 5 Kabalite, bl, venom, 125 -> 250
5 Wyches, hwg, venom 125
5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120
3 Beastmasters, 2 rwf 10 khy 186
2 x Ravager 105 -> 210
Farseer, ejb, shard 155
3 windraider jetbike squad 51
Wrightknight 240
1997

So no double Foc or Tantalus. I intend to keep as close as possible to the original list.
I don't own any Apoc or IA books so I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to face there.

Tournament tomorrow with 2000pts list as described above. I'm a little afraid of those super heavies as my list is not that much geared to high av piercing. A Hugo amount of Eldar and even dark Eldar are present so i expect a lot of anti xenos weapons. Whirlwind anyone? I'll probably write a smaller report on how things went. First mission will be purge the alien! Glad to get that do and be over with.

Last weekend i attended 2000pts tournament. Didn't do that well. 1st game killpoints against DA player with 12 lascannons and 30 marines with dakkaflag. Wipeout on T4. Venoms are better than bolters behind Aegis and my fast cc was able to annihilate all predatars and dreadnoughts.
Second game scouring objectives with some special rules. extremely beautiful SW army with 2 long fangs, vindicator and a Redeemer and assortiment of puppies. Rush to his face and kill all his shooting. Poding gh-pack and terminator wg managed to kill my WK but I was still in better position. 7-3 for me.
Last game was against Eldar, 2 spinners, prism 3 waves with guardiands and 3 windraidersquads, 10 spiders. MotLG farseer and Forgeflyer along with crimsonhunter. 3 objectives Hammer and Anvil. Rushed to his side and killed in cc all his Spinners and Prism. Waves flew over me to my side but i was able to gun then down with the aid of cc. windriders and spiders went after my troops. Lots of flying here and there but in the end (time run out after T5 and we did not throw dice to continue) nobody hd any objectives but he had FB and StWl. 4-6 loss.

Things to note:
- Mass khymerae are great. No need for more than 2 razorwings.
- Farseer with shard is really made for the beastpack. The farseer its self was gold beeing able to guide one of my Ravagers and Precience the wrightknight.
- S3 on huskblade archonis a partykiller. Next time he needs drugs. Aberration with VB was good and three grots was enough.
- it doesn't matter what gun does the Raiders have. In three games I only shot once with my two Raiders dissies.
- I can't do next to nothing to flyers

So next Friday is a new tournament coming. The one in witch I'm one of the organizers. I'd like to have comments on my list that I developed after the afore mentioned tournament.

Archon, hb, sf, drugs 130
Baroness Sathonyx 105
3 Grots, Ab, Vb, raider, 180
2 x 5 Kabalite, bl, venom, 125 -> 250
2 x 5 Kabalite, venom, 110 -> 220
2 x 5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120 -> 240
3 Beastmasters, 2 rwf 9 khy 174
2 x Ravager 105 -> 210
Farseer, ejb, shard 155
3 windraider jetbike squad 51
Wrightknight 240
1850

Changes to last version
- Archon got drugs and Baroness to keep him company (Although she'll go to the beastherd)
- second wyches squad got their Venom downgraded to Raider (4V to 3R ratio that was 5V to 2R)
- Ravager was left home to get baron in.
- I still can't do next to nothing to flyers

I noticed that I was able to push so many threats to enemy's face with my list that he wasn't able to cope with the all. And still my back up shooting is quite good.

The four tournament missions are Big guns, Purge the alien, relic/emperors will and crusade.

Interesting thoughts, thank you for the heads up, gonna have to find a copy of the new dex as I have been out of the game for a bit now. Keep up the good work.

And ofcource when one knows the codex one can tell that Arhcon drugs aren't cheap. 5 points over:evil: 

Last Revision:
Archon, hb, sf, drugs 135
Baroness Sathonyx 105
3 Grots, Lig, Ab, Vb, raider, 190
4 x 5 Kabalite, venom, 110 -> 440
2 x 5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120 -> 240
3 Beastmasters, 2 rwf 10 khy 186
2 x Ravager 105 -> 210
Farseer, ejb, shard 155
3 windraider jetbike squad 51
Wrightknight 240

This evening it begins!

Tournament done and a small report here again and some afterthoughts.

1st game. Big guns, DoW opponent nids with Swarm lord with retinue, Malantai, 3 Hive guards, 2 tervigons, 2 trygons. Even with my reduced number of venoms easy victory here. I used the beastpack to lure his army (=Swarmlord) to the left while speeding in from the right side. WK and Ravager were shooting from the middle although the VK vas a disappointment making only one wound to Tervigon during the whole game. 2 tournament points for me and +9 tiebreaker from victory points.

2nd game killpoints and VgS deployment. Non familiar player with odd Necron list including Monolith, Doom scythe, 6 scarabs 1 squad of wraiths with mss lord. 2 troops, snipers and crazy S7 walking cc unit with "traveller" HQ warlord. Even with out night shields I outranged him. Doom was very handy dealing with wraiths. He managed to charge my Wrightknight with mss HQ that stood up like 5 time before finally dying permanently. Not much of a fight wipeout on T5 so 2 tournament points for me and +10 tiebreaker from victory points. After the 1st day I was in the lead with 4 points and +19 tiebraker.

Saturday morning 3rd game was Emperors will and Relic with Dow reply (and no hangover for me). My opponent was Finlands ETC captain 2012 with his Space Marines. He had librarian with 5 TH/SS in a landraider, 2 full tactical squads with bolterbacks, 3 mm attackbikes twin mm speeder, 2 riffleman, dakkapred, 2 thunderfires and Aegis with quad. This would be easy -Not:evil: I got to go first and he didn't steal. Guided Ravager blows Landraider from 5+ cover, Precienced WK shoots from high up and avoids Aegis cover for dreadnought. it also goes boom. Venoms manage to take out even one of the thunderers and wound the quad. A solid first turn. My Raiders with wyches speed to his face followed closely by the Archon and his Grots. Beastpack guards the terminator squad getting ready to charge. In his turn He blows the Archons ride with Predator and quad gun (go 4+ cover) The second riffleman charges the las hullpoint away from Wyches rider and Terminators blow the last one in cc killing 4 wyches making the last one break. In my turn I charge the terminators and librarian with grots and beast pack killing all of terminators but librarian manages to kill all my grots in the progress. Doh. Arcon runs from the battle  Wraith knight kills the second riffleman. Ravager fales to do anything to his Razor witch trying to get in to my home objective along with 3 AB. On his turn he Gates the lone librarian from the battle to safety, manages to down my ravager, flame twice my beastpack with techmarines and down two Venoms. On my next turn I send my guided WK after the speeding Razor since I only have Kabalites without blasters at my home objective. Roll to hit - 1,1, rerolls -1,1. That's it no killing it. By beastpack and Venoms kill a combat squad of troops on his side and position themselves oh his objective. Venoms try to kill his Attack bikes but wound only one. In the end I manage to keep his one troop squad from his home objective but he manages to kill all my attempts to get the relic. Razorback is better that kabalites without blaster and he grabs my home objective. I had first blood and 1 vp from killing a terminator sarge in challenge with my warlord. I also had linebraker but he didn't in the end he killed my Archon who was guarding the relic. 3-4 loss after a very strong start. A very fun and close game but I should have concentrated to the game more in the end as I though I had it in the bag after my superb first turn of blowing 500pts worth of stuff. So no tournament victory for me.

In my last game I was still the best in victory point ratio and got paired to the last 6 points guy. Finnish ETC teams GK/Necron player with his ETC list. It had Coteaz, 2 full strikes with psybolts, 3 dreadknights with pretty mean flamers, 2 min necron warrior squads in croissants and a full wraith squad with destroyer lord. And never forget the Annihiation barge. The game was 5 normal objectives. He won the deployment side of 3 objectives against my 2 and made me go first. AS usual Ravager > Annibarge but this time only a immobilised. The DK's prevented my assaults. Wraiths and necron lord melted to beastpack after venom shooting but managed to wound 2 times the WK with mss (again). My attempts to deny his objectives with wind raiders and farseer was for naught and the same with his Night scythe troop drops to the obective. In the end he had 3 objectives and FB against mine 2 objectives. An another close loss of 6-10 victory points. I still had good tiebraker score of +14 making me the first of 4 point guys and placing 13th (out of app. 40)

Some afterthoughts:
- WK is a very solid support for DE along with farseer.
- Farseer takes care bestpacks lack of fearless and buffing them as they go.
- I don't know how to use Wind Raiders. My list doesn't benefit that much from them.
- Liguifier for grots didn't shoot a single time in the tournament. It's not in balance with Grots having no fleet.
- I rolled 2 times the "running trainer" in four games and only once it was worth it when I got to reroll my wounds in a challenge with the terminator sergeant.
- 10 Dogs was very solid. Yes the die to dakka but there is so much S6 or better dakka at hand that it is worth it. Still liked my two Flocks but them being I5 makes it sometimes hard to get to hit in cc as Khymerae usually kill all those in btb with the pack.
- I'd like to have a one serpent to support my long range shooting. Maybe I even try Reavers in stead of Archon and Grots as Crayonmicros suggested

Heip Vasara,
Lots of interesting bits and pieces in your write ups.  

Will you attend the Turku Fanatic, with this army, if its on?

Since I have my title to defend I'll try to be there. Not sure about the army though.

Thanks for your comments.

Back to more interesting life of TAC lists.

I'm a bit loss here on what to take to next tournament in a week but here's what I got now at paper.

Archon, hb, sf, 125
Baroness Sathonyx 105
3 Grots, Ab, Vb, raider, 180
2 x 5 Kabalite, venom, 125 -> 250
5 Wyches, hwg, venom, 125
5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120
3 Beastmasters, 2 rwf 10 khy 186
Ravager 105
Farseer, ejb, shard 155
5 Dire Avengers, Serpent, holo, scatter 200
Wrightknight 240

total 1791/1850

So I'm still a little short on points. I could lose the Blasters to free some more points but not so many. Any idea on how to change my list to be complete.

The tournament has killpoints built in to all three of its games but only once they are a primary. I'm also expecting very odd lists as the almost whole finish ETC team is trying out new stuff.

Generally speaking i like the list. The one thing I'dlike is to bring more or stronger troop options. Maybe upgrade one of the venom kabalites into a 10man raider kabalite. 35p, and swap the 5 DAs into 10 guardians for another 25p if I am not mistaking. Or you could add 3 Eldar bikes but that is just another killpoint i suppose.

An alternative would be to add another BM to beef that unit. You are running 260p HQs to buff/enable a 186p unit. i know thats not the only thing these hqs do but still an option would be to add a bm an 2 flocks to make the unit more kill:y.

What about dropping one squad of Warriors in Venom and trying to squeeze in another DAVU WS? Then you have grots, beasts, WK, 2 WS and you're list is looking incredibly resilient

Thanks for commenting guys. I'm a bit torn between adding another Serpent with Avengers as fuhrmaaj suggested or 5 warp spiders? I'm a bit short on painted Eldar models so sadly that effects the list a bit.

Tournament rules support smaller fast and heavy units by rewarding double killpoints for more than 180pts units in each category. So one Khymerae less to make it 174pts unit. In general I'm not anymore so much fan of Razorwings since they give away combat resolution fast when facing S6 or stronger units. On the other hand my pack is now fearless so it wouldn't matter anyway that much.

My goal is to make it very odd and unpredictable DE/ELD list. Though there is no surprising elements in the allied detachment at the moment. I also want to try what works now in our current meta. The Archon and his gang has not been working as well as I would have liked, but I'm going to keep them in my list for now. That would be 300pts worth of other stuff to take.

As far as unpredictability goes, the WK probably fills that element already as well as the Farseer adding Fearless. It's not unprecedented, but will definitely be a surprise for most lists.

My experience with Warp Spiders is that the closer you can get to 10 models, the better (9 because of your tournie rules). With Guide, they're not bad at taking out flyers in addition to what you expect them to do.

Today I made the final decision about the list. Sadly it is effected by the models at my disposal. And I still need to paint 10 Aspect warriors but at least I got them primed already.

Archon, hb, sf, 125
Baroness Sathonyx 105
3 Grots, Ab, Vb, raider, 180
2 x 5 Kabalite, venom, 110 -> 220
5 Wyches, hwg, venom, 125
5 Wyches, hwg, raider, 120
3 Beastmasters, 2 rwf 9 khy 179
Ravager 105
Farseer, ejb, spear, shard 155
5 Dire Avengers, Serpent, holo, scatter 200
5 Warp spiders 95
Wrightknight 240
total 1849pts

I would have liked to have 2 serpents but the second one was in such a bad shape painvice that I needed to drop it from the list.

Now the list suffers a bit from buffet table syndrome "I couldn't decide what to take so I took little of everything" Hopefully I can keep it together and make it work. And it sure should surprise my opponents on how "DE" list nowadays look-likes

ARGH! No allies allowed in the tournament. Back to the drawing board.