General DE Wishlist

MFive wrote:

can the decapod shoot his blast at a different target, so it would be helpful when his primary goal is killing tanks?

Funny thing... no, but I meant it to. I somehow missed that.

And I also messed up the Aranite Riders; they're supposed to have 'Scout'.

MFive wrote:

did you change the ammount of wych weapons that the wych's can take? i am wondering because that is not mentioned in the fandex, and if i can give them all hydra gauntlets ...  

No. Again, with all the buffs you can put on wyches already, that seems like far too much. I don't want to change them beyond recognition, I just want them to be the same thing, only good.

Barking Agatha wrote:

Funny thing... no, but I meant it to. I somehow missed that.

And I also messed up the Aranite Riders; they're supposed to have 'Scout'.

No. :)Again, with all the buffs you can put on wyches already, that seems like far too much. I don't want to change them beyond recognition, I just want them to be the same thing, only good.

i hoped thats how it was suposed to be, i have never seen a blooper do only one thing at once :0

anarite raiders seem vary interesting ... i might have to try these guys ...

i have to say, i regret the wyches wounding everything on 5+ that i fight ... do mind if i 'modify' your fandex? of corse i would provide you with credit for all the work, as you did majority of it

there are some things i would like to change and see what you think when i am done, it would be easier to change and see what you think rather then funnel all of the thoughts through the forum and make all of the admins mad for bumping(lol), honestly, i might not even have the time to finish the 'changes' ...

MFive wrote:

... do mind if i 'modify' your fandex? of corse i would provide you with credit for all the work, as you did majority of it...

Actually, Phil Kelly did the majority of it . I certainly don't mind at all.

Barking Agatha wrote:

MFive wrote:

... do mind if i 'modify' your fandex? of course i would provide you with credit for all the work, as you did majority of it...

Actually, Phil Kelly did the majority of it . I certainly don't mind at all.

sweet, thanks!

what i am hoping for is a army that has a tad bit more durability, not enough to make it seem out of character, but 'some' sort of defensive mechanisms that can't be completely removed by a single ignores cover rule, er ... i mean special rule

and functionality in the units that are not commonly used, mandrakes, decapitator, scourges, our airplanes, vect, the Lady and many others

with the philosophy being that nothing is bad, and you don't shoot yourself for taking a fluff army.

@Bacon: Lovin' the Feast of Pain idea.

@Happymeal: I'm sorry, but the link to your codex doesn't seem to work anymore. I understand you have done some revisions and would love to look @ it.

@Agatha: You are sadly correct about the practicality-to-flavor ratio. I still like the Moros, but it needs work. As for your codex, all I can say is I wish I had your flair for words. I really liked most of it.

Highlights include:
Unnerving Presence - Exactly what I was trying to achieve with the terrorfex but simpler and more elegant. How could I not like it?

Mandrakes -- Win. Though I think you might want to reconsider the strength of the shadow blades. They will be St6 v. LD8-9 against most of the enemies I would want to send them against. Wounding on 6 kinda sucks for an elite so maybe Stx3?

Wyche Dance Routines-- Awesome

Portals -- Rocks. Only thing I can nit-pick is the restriction to one character, but that's just me.

Making the Dias a chariot is totally genius. I wonder if this would allow all 12 models to make sweep attacks. If so, that is totally worth the codex points. Keep the guns as lances and give it a shock prow and now it is super effective (and a huge bullet magnet).

The cavalry and interceptors are pretty cool. I'm picturing 2X5 riders w/ shredders as Warp Spider replacements and a squad of interceptors for flyer cleanup.

Meh:
Cthulhu -- Giant MC's are in, but I'm just not feeling the Elder God, sorry. Thing is, between interceptors, planes, and skysurfing, we now own the sky. What I find myself wanting is an mc which compliments the fear factor of coven units. It would have to be a good replacement for lance ravagers or taloi though since we would be losing that AT slot.

The Clown HQ's: No offense. It's a personal thing. Hate clowns. Just hate them. ...And Stephen King for ruining them for me. Giving Harlies an HQ would be cool though.

Anyway, good ideas all. Enough to make me want to steal many of them and revise my fandex if no one minds?

@Animus12

Humnhapymeal Fandex

there you go i keep forgetting to update the links because i keep updating the codex

Animus12 wrote:

Mandrakes -- Win. Though I think you might want to reconsider the strength of the shadow blades. They will be St6 v. LD8-9 against most of the enemies I would want to send them against. Wounding on 6 kinda sucks for an elite so maybe Stx3?

Actually Mandrakes are Str 4, so the shadow blades would be Str 8, usually v. Ld 7 or 8 (because the Mandrakes themselves have Unnerving Presence).

Animus12 wrote:

Making the Dias a chariot is totally genius. I wonder if this would allow all 12 models to make sweep attacks. If so, that is totally worth the codex points.

I assume so, unless I got it wrong? They're not crew, they're all supposed to be able to disembark if they want to.

Animus12 wrote:

Meh:
Cthulhu -- Giant MC's are in, but I'm just not feeling the Elder God, sorry.

That's okay, it's just an image that I like. I was hoping for a 1950's sci-fi monster feel.

Animus12 wrote:

The Clown HQ's: No offense. It's a personal thing. Hate clowns. Just hate them. ...And Stephen King for ruining them for me.

By making them unscary as well as unfunny? Not a huge fan of 'It'.

Animus12 wrote:

Enough to make me want to steal many of them and revise my fandex if no one minds?

I stole half of yours

Quote :

Actually Mandrakes are Str 4, so the shadow blades would be Str 8, usually v. Ld 7 or 8 (because the Mandrakes themselves have Unnerving Presence).

Don't know how I missed that. Oh yeah, they're mandrakes. That makes all the difference   

I like the image of Cthulhu, so keep that. I was just hoping for a different role for the old guy, ..er thing, ..er ...

I put my votes behind moving the razorwing to fast attack and maybe making a squadron of a variant of the venom that doesn't transport but gets more weapon options instead.

Other things I'd enjoy to add variety to the lists I'd build.

Drazhar unlocks incubi as troops.
Duke unlocks trueborn as troops.
Decapitator to unlock mandrakes as troops (as well as some of the changes you guys have written to make them usable)
New special character to unlock reavers as troops.

My suggestions would be something like the following

>Dark Eldar troops are so skilled at fast moving attacks and anticipating their opponents actions that all Dark Eldar gain a bonus of +1 Ballistic Skill when firing snap shots.

>Dark Eldar transports fly faster than normal.  These transports move an additional 3 in. in combat speed/Crusing Speed. These 3 inches do not count against the units total movement. (traveling 6 inch +3 inch = 9 inch but the transport only moved 6 inch when it comes to shooting and disembarking effects)

> Give Hellions and Scourges a 2d6 move in assault phase like jetpacks (speed)

> Rework Pain tokens
Any time a DE unit forces an opposing unit to make a Leadership test or destroys a unnit the DE player gets a Pain Token. (We should get pleasure from their pain not their death)
At the start of any phase you may spend your tokens to buff your army (not individual units)

So spend 5 Pain Tokens to buy each ability (FNP, Furious Charge, Fearless) So you can buy them in the order you want them as opposed to each unit. I have found I will often blast a unit to 2 or 3 models and then just leave it alone. No reason for me to waste 40 shots on 3 guys.

If we're talking about Razorwings as Fast, I;d actually go against it and instead suggest squadrons or Ravens be introduced as a Fast choice instead. A smaller flyer in a squadron like the Raven would suit really well, and to be honest I think the opening for three Razorwings PLUS the Voidravens is a bit too much.


On jdfolkerts suggestions, not sure what i think on the snap-shooting +1 BS, as Dark Eldar aren;t really "THE" shooting army. That's not what we do, and the extra Raider movement might be too much as well.
I'd suggest an alternative. Let units in Raiders disembark as normal when moving at Cruising Speed, but if the Raider has moved they have to make Dangerous Terrain tests when they jump out. It balances a bit with the added danger, but also gives us the mobility which I think is at the core of what Dark Eldar are meant to be.


As for pain Tokens, I kind of like how they are and wouldn't want them to change......

Thanks for the suggestions.  

I rarely see Pain tokens in their current form.  Once a unit is down to 2 or 3 models I tend to leave it alone unless its a scoring unit.  Another option is to turn them into something like marker lights and you buy effects for a full turn instead.  I would be nice to be known as the scary army.  Always forcing units to take morale tests. Thanks for the ideas for sure.

I agree with much of what has been said and i'd lika to add that for hellions to suck a little bit less they should get move through cover or skilled rider. I dont want the baron to be a must have for the poor hellions.

Hope Dark Muses will forgive me for necro-ing my own thread.

Considering brand new "7th" edition, i've though up an upgraded version of Crucible of Malediction:

Before the game starts, choose a number. Keep this number in mind. Once an psyker rolls a double (or more) on psychic test, he suffers a perils of the warp (just as if he's rolled double 6's).

Each time Crucible triggers, owner can change the number in order to maintain psychological pressure on the opponent.

Downside: this frak your psykers, too. Don't ally with pesky sorcerors.

Browsing through this thread since last posting on it, many of the proposed changes seem to be "Make our guns hurt more" (including different fixed numbers for poisoned shooting attacks - no, just no) and "Make us tougher to hit." Tougher to hit I concur with, but maybe through vehicle upgrades that improve our jink saves or something. Some kind of Dirge Caster type upgrade with a bit more range would be nice, even if it only affects units on a failed leadership test. Hopefully failed leadership tests would be more likely with leadership manipulation abilities. You know, like our goody two shoes cousins have. Most of our guns work the same as they always did anyway, so I don't think they particularly need overhauling. We'll presumably get a couple of new ones, but giving some more of them pinning would be quite characterful. Splinter cannons that fire full shots maybe.

Allowing us to assault out of cruising speed transports would perhaps be a bit too much, but allowing us to shoot from a cruising speed transport, provided it hasn't jinked, would be reasonable. As much as I like the idea of certain HQs making things troops, I don't hold out much hope for it. Orks lost all of those abilities in their codex. Besides, now everything is scoring it's less of an issue.

A special detachment is presumably inevitable, as well as a formation. Perhaps that formation could be a webway one that can assault from reserve, more likely it'll be a carnival of of pain type thing. A raiding party detachment or formation that makes it easier to strike first and strike hard would be good enough though.

@Mr Believer: You seem to be a bit misoneistic about this! Take this, for example:

Mr Believer wrote:

(including different fixed numbers for poisoned shooting attacks - no, just no)

Why not? Duke Sliscus already does this for one unit, so what is so terrible about expanding on this idea?

Mr Believer wrote:

Tougher to hit I concur with, but maybe through vehicle upgrades that improve our jink saves or something.

I would argue that jink saves are fine now: it's the preponderance of things that ignore cover that gives us the most trouble. What does it matter if you have a 2+ jink save if you don't get to roll for it?

Mr Believer wrote:

Allowing us to assault out of cruising speed transports would perhaps be a bit too much, but allowing us to shoot from a cruising speed transport, provided it hasn't jinked, would be reasonable.

How would it be too much? Might wyches make it into close combat without getting shot all to pieces first? Horrors! And why is it that every other army gets to escalate their squads' abilities for the new version of the game, but dark eldar have to be 'reasonable'?

Mr Believer wrote:

Perhaps that formation could be a webway one that can assault from reserve, more likely it'll be a carnival of of pain type thing.

How much do you want to bet that it's a copy+paste of the apocalypse one that came out a few months ago?

Barking Agatha, could you please repost a link to your fandex? The previous link is deactivated.
Thank you

Oops, sorry about that! It should be fixed now.

Ok, maybe I was feeling a little masochistic when I posted that. It just seems that some of the fixes people want are things that would have been just as relevant in 5th when the book was new, such as wanting more powerful guns. It's hardly the case that the things they're shooting at have gotten stronger, in fact all the vehicles have gotten weaker. Also I can just see the potential for a lot of rage quitting if we become the only army that alpha strike effectively in terms of assault. I'm not sure throwing yourself into the fight instantly is what the Dark Eldar are all about from a fluff perspective either (which didn't stop me doing it back in 5th edition, I admit). Admittedly, I did enjoy gulping down units that were right at the back of the board, where my opponent thought they'd be safe. Hehehe. I suppose overwatch has nerfed assault so much that actually a first turn assault wouldn't be too broken. It does look a bit like they've actually thought about the assault phase with the Ork codex, so we shall see.

Maybe different fixed number wounding for poisoned weaponry wouldn't be so bad, but I just don't think poisoned stuff would feel as... unique if it all wounded on different numbers. I just feel to over-complicate poisoned shooting weaponry would be to lose some of the flavour of it. How much fun is it going up against someone who has never played DE before, firing at their grunts, wounding them on 4s, then firing at a big beefy monster and wounding that on the same number as the rank and file? It's just a personal thing with me I suppose. I'm weird   Also, if they kept Sliscus in, his upgrade wouldn't feel that special anymore if they also kept his rules the same or similar.

Barking Agatha wrote:

How much do you want to bet that it's a copy+paste of the apocalypse one that came out a few months ago?

I would bet good money. I have my fingers crossed that they won't do this (as much as I like Reavers, I don't want to feel obliged to buy another box so I can field a semi decent formation). How about we put the name "Webway Raiding Party Detachment" around and see if we can get someone to pick up on that? All units from the detachment have the "Strike from the shadows" rule, allowing them to assault from reserve or something. If any GW devs are reading, please let us do what we're supposed to do and strike suddenly and without warning before fading away, laughing sadistically all the while.

Nope Barking Agatha, still error 404
i bet its easier to just post a new link!

Sorry again. It definitely should work now?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pw1i76ni5ggz19/Barking%20Agatha%27s%20Fancodex%20DE.pdf

Mr Believer wrote:

It's hardly the case that the things they're shooting at have gotten stronger.

I see what you mean, but I don't agree. When the Dark Eldar Codex came out, there was no such thing as Ignores Cover: if you were in cover, you got a save (flamers and the like excluded). There were no Titans or Destroyer Weapons. Chaos didn't have fire-breathing dragons that could fly faster than your skimmers, or dinosaur demons that shoot eight krack missiles at you. Every Eldar transport didn't shoot up to 7 S7 shots at you with a 60" range, and shrug off penetrating hits. Psychic Powers were just a slight boost, rather than a way to get invisible Cthulhus to smash all your stuff. There were no Imperial Knights. Necrons weren't even out yet. The Tau were kind of crappy and easy to beat! Remember?

So, basically yeah, the things we're shooting at have gotten stronger, a *lot* stronger, and much better at killing our stuff than we are at killing theirs, which was not the case at the time. We can still kill a land raider as easily as we could in 5th edition, sure... it's just that the game isn't really about that any more.

Thank you Barking Agatha!
Also i agree with you: if the game designer ups the ante, we should be able to hold our spot. namely bringing more gunz or triks to stay in line with the current aarmies. our actual codex is so lacklustre that only with 2 max 3 lists you are able to win...

Yeah, I suppose there is a lot of ignores cover stuff out there, but we do still have a way to give every vehicle in our army a 5+ invulnerable save, which is not to be sniffed at. Ok, we could do with a bit of a boost, but this is where power creep comes from - Orks and Eldar with old school fleet and battle focus being a prime example. Don't get me wrong, I love their in-game function, but it is basically a case of Phil Kelly going somewhat against the overall design of the core rule set. You sort of wonder how much different designers communicate with each other sometimes... I just think a lot of the suggestions in the thread are intended to make us a bigger and nastier beatstick than the other armies, and I wouldn't like that. How could I justify losing then?   

How about something like this?

Power From Pain - roll a D6 for each unsaved wound inflicted by the unit. On a roll of 6 this unit gains a Pain Token. Do not roll for wounds inflicted by vehicles or dedicated transports. A maximum of 1 Pain Token can be gained by a unit per turn.

1st Pain Token - Feel No Pain (4+)
2nd Pain Token - Furious Charge, Rage
3rd Pain Token - Fearless, Rampage

barjed wrote:

A maximum of 1 Pain Token can be gained by a unit per turn.

Then they'd have to change the function of the Cronos though, or at least the function would change out of necessity. All the pain tokens it generates would have to be distributed amongst a number of units - personally I like the way it works now, suddenly supercharging itself or a nearby ally. I don't like the idea that a unit could wipe out multiple squads and potentially get no pain tokens from it either, I'd rather it be guaranteed - we're soft and squishy enough without making the thing that makes us a bit tougher more random   Though I do like your proposed changes to what each tier unlocks, they could be fun!