General DE Wishlist

You sir, are a genius. That keeps things very offense oriented without supercharging anything. So maybe the table should look something like this:

1st = FnP 5+
2nd = FnP 4+, FC
3rd = FnP 4+ , FC, Zealot

If we wanted to get ridiculous, we could throw Rage into the mix. So we ended up with:
1 = 5+, FC
2 = 4+, FC, Rage
3+ = 4+, FC, Rage, Zealot
...now, that would be a unit near the top of my target priority.
(Somehow FC just keeps moving to the first token.)

I have finish typing up the rough draft of my codex and i will post it on a seperate thread for all your enjoyment UGHHHHHH NEVER AGAIN DOING THAT I HATE TYPING SO MUCH.... anyway as to the current topic of your pain token debate i like the second table animus

If we wanted to get ridiculous, we could throw Rage into the mix. So we ended up with:
1 = 5+, FC
2 = 4+, FC, Rage
3+ = 4+, FC, Rage, Zealot
...now, that would be a unit near the top of my target priority.

that one

Here's one I was toying with, would like people's opinions:

Webway Portal - Dark Eldar Fortification (no, really); 100 points
When fortifications are placed, the Dark Eldar player deploys d3+1 Webway Portals. These are treated as impassable terrain for all units. Any Dark Eldar non-vehicle unit held in reserve may enter play from these markers. Any Dark Eldar unit may voluntarily leave the table by moving into base contact with a webway portal; if it does, it is placed into ongoing reserve.

What do you think? The rapid redeployment capabilities could really mess with your opponent's head, and it allows you to rapidly cut around their forces and remove yourself to a new area if they're concentrating too much fire on one part of the board. The nuisance factor is mitigated because a) you still can't assault from them (that would be busted); b) the random number of portals (maybe should be just set as 3, but I like the feel that some areas have stronger webway ties than others); c) limited by the fortification rules that they have to be placed in your table half.

There's all sorts of dirty tricks that can be played with this, but nothing that seems ludicrously broken off the top of my head.

OK, grots may get abused with the first pain token idea but I think there are natural counterbalances. Who would ever run a maxed out big foot squad of them? It ruins the core principal of target saturation. Transportless DE do not work well and a supersized Grot squad would be a massive point sink. Then there is the fiscal ouch of actually buying that many one-pose breakdancers. Most of the time, FnP IS their save! White Scars with an apothecary or Ork Nob bikers with a painboy are plenty dirty. I think we can allow ourselves to go a little bit Matt Ward from time to time.
Due to the limited space on a raider, 4 grots at the most will be carted around in a transport, leaving space for a maximum of 2 Haemonculi. The more recent pain token amendments look great, though.
I also am a big fan of funky deployment rules like the above webway portal idea and the mandrakes "from the shadows" is built of win. What about a warlord trait where a DE army could re-roll its deployment type? Original game is dawn of war, but the DE can deploy as if it were hammer and anvil/vanguard strike. The 24" zone of no mans land must be kept however.
Would I like to be able to outflank raiders with an enhance aethersail? Yes. Would I like "skilled rider" to apply to my planes? Yes. Would I like the wyches dodge to be used in overwatch as it is part of the struggle of getting into assault? Yes. Are these perfectly reasonable requests? Yes.

An idea just struck me that would be really nice to see.
Resurrection. If Necrons have units that can be brought back to life during combat, why not Dark Eldar?
I was thinking some kind of new wrack-unit with a wargear, like this:

Field Pain-generator
Whenever a model with a field pain-generator dies in a unit, place a marker to where the model was. The marker will keep moving with the rest of the unit like a normal model, but it cant be targeted, it cant attack etc. and if an opponent moves a model on the marker, you must move it the minimum direction so that it would remain in unit coherency but not locked in combat. If this cant be done, remove the marker. (This would mean the other members of the unit carrying/dragging the dead, and, if surrounded or in CC, dropping/pulling them aside to focus entirely on the enemy.)
Whenever another unit (friend or foe) dies, if there is a unit with field pain-generator markers within 2D6 inches, roll a D6 for each marker in that unit.
On a +4, replace the marker with the former model.

I really liked that idea, and I think it could be fit for close combat as well. If the unit is locked in combat and a unit next to them is shot down to bits, they could bring back some of their dead.
The Field Pain-generator could also be added to a haemonculus, but dont really know how much points it would be. 20? 30?

Allright boys run this through the mill while were at it
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8t97nermiognmq/Dark%20eldar%20code%20V1.pdf

My main focus was to upgrade our speed, how hard we hit without just wreaking house, and taking our saves from tissue paper(with spikes) to Paper mache(with spikes)

Humnhapymeal wrote:

Allright boys run this through the mill while were at it
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f8t97nermiognmq/Dark%20eldar%20code%20V1.pdf

My main focus was to upgrade our speed, how hard we hit without just wreaking house, and taking our saves from tissue paper(with spikes) to Paper mache(with spikes)

About the wyches, you probably mean cult, not a coven?
Also, two attacks on a wych, four on a syren is a bit too much, since they already have two close combat weapons.
Otherwise, I like most of the changes in that. Especially bullet wych!

Mngwa wrote:

about the wyches, you probably mean cult, not a coven?
Also, two attacks on a wych, four on a syren is a bit too much, since they already have two close combat weapons.
Otherwise, I like most of the changes in that. Especially bullet wych!

No actually i meant coven cause i wanted to seperate the wyches and the heamonculi i could switch then to be wych cult and flesh coven but that just kinda sounds "not as good"

And i actually think i agree with you about the syren 4 being to much ill lower it to a 3 in the final draft. but two on the wyches was something that i really liked because of their low stength and toughness. if i change it ill lower it to 1 attack but let them swap out their splinter pistol for another Poisoned dagger. or something along those lines.

what was your opinion on the webway spire and darklight backlash on the ravager? those are the two things i wrote that im really kinda sketchy on. because do dark eldar really even need a S10 AP1 large blast. with the darklight backlash its so random that it works out being balanced by how often that will ever occur. but im thinking about the webway spire i think it may be a little OP.

@Humnhapymeal perhaps you meant lilith to have 6 attacks instead of 4? i think you got the succubus and liliths attacks swapped

@Animus12 My thoughts on the PFP change

Token 1: FNP:5+, FC
Token 2: FNP:4+, FC +1S
Token 3: FNP:4+, FC, +1S, +1T
Token 4: FNP:4+, FC, +1S, +1 T, +1A
Token 5: FNP:4+, FC, +1S, +1 T, +1A, +1I

i have always wondered why it caps at 3 token effects, imo this would be great

EDIT: The effects not stacking, replacing the previous token effect(so you don't get S8 wyches on charge :O)

MFive wrote:

@Humnhapymeal perhaps you meant lilith to have 6 attacks instead of 4? i think you got the succubus and liliths attacks swapped

well not quite i tried to mainly leave the named HQs alone but in my experience does lelith even need more attacks i mean with 4 initial attacks plus one one the charge plus two CCW and leage apart and most units ive come across have a WS of 3\4.

4+1+1+(9-4= 5)=11 attacks

Allthough i am slowly going through and make changes to what i wrote

I feel there are a few OP items here. Ill start from the end and work my way forward.

Stinger cannons: even at their cost might be a little broken, I think poison 3+ will do.

Liq guns: ap d3 is just too strong. Although maybe introduce a heavy liq gun for grots with this template.
Fleshbane with the current ap seems broken (though I agree fluff wise)

Pulse cannon: unimportant but isn't that already the name of the crimson hunters gun? Maybe void cannon? Like I said pretty unimportant.

Generator assembly: all the effects are fine but you gave it an armor value, but no hp. Also they can't be taken on vehicles so are you trying you get people to foot slog or encouraging use of the neutered webway portal? Not as disparaging as it sounds I promise, an honest question.

Haketti's wrath and qa'leths blade: 6" may make it an auto include. Maybe make it D6 +2 or 1? The blade is strength 8? Is that a shooting attack or just brings the users str to 8 no matter what? And at that strength does it really need fleshbane?

Darklight lashback: I don't find it too op, but lashback normally implies consequences. Maybe can't fire next turn? (Too harsh I think) maybe roll a D6 for each lance on the ravager and on a roll of 1 the weapon overloads and is destroyed (kind of a long rule but it makes the player almost as afraid as the enemy and would keep it from happening too often)

Duke slisscus: why is he jump infantry with bones of the seer?

Beast masters: are wych cult not gang.

Reavers: also wych cult, and the ability to bring that many cluster caltrops is a bit ridiculous. I'd leave it at one per 3 models for 10 pts, or let them all take it but at at least 15 points.

Grotrsque: what is the obsidian pillar?

Vect: I think it would not be undue to grant him eternal warrior.; I mean who is more eternal than the supreme tyrant of the dark city?

Incubi: I love this unit. So much so that I bring them to almost every game, but adding an extra str and attack might be enough to cover their cost. 2 wounds may be pushing it, but t6 does help counteract that so idk.

Lelith: May be too strong if she takes Shaimesh venom, 10ish attacks, ws9 wounding on a 2+ and no armor saves. Maybe shaimesh should be 3+?

Combat drugs: there was a good discussion on different drug tables people were considering for use in homebrew games ( I can't search it on my phone) you may want to look at. Very good stuff.

Pain tokens: I think you've heard from previous posts about the tokens and I approve of the changes you have in mind.


I hope my review didn't seem too scathing. Everything I didn't mention, was either unchanged or I loved it. I just wanted to play devils advocate because I intend to try and convince some friends to let me test play this codex. So I want it as balanced as possible.

Thank you for all the hard and good work you put into this project. You rock.

Ugh, can't edit from my phone so sorry for the double post. :/

Under incubi, I of course meant toughness 3.

The Red King wrote:

I feel there are a few OP items here. Ill start from the end and work my way forward.

Stinger cannons: even at their cost might be a little broken, I think poison 3+ will do.

Liq guns: ap d3 is just too strong.  Although maybe introduce a heavy liq gun for grots with this template.  
Fleshbane with the current ap seems broken (though I agree fluff wise)

Pulse cannon: unimportant but isn't that already the name of the crimson hunters gun?  Maybe void cannon?  Like I said pretty unimportant.

Generator assembly: all the effects are fine but you gave it an armor value,  but no hp. Also they can't be taken on vehicles so are you trying you get people to foot slog or encouraging use of the neutered webway portal?  Not as disparaging as it sounds I promise,  an honest question.

Haketti's wrath and qa'leths blade: 6" may make it an auto include.  Maybe make it D6 +2 or 1? The blade is strength 8? Is that a shooting attack or just brings the users str to 8 no matter what?  And at that strength does it really need fleshbane?

Darklight lashback: I don't find it too op, but lashback normally implies consequences. Maybe can't fire next turn?  (Too harsh I think) maybe roll a D6 for each lance on the ravager and on a roll of 1 the weapon overloads and is destroyed (kind of a long rule but it makes the player almost as afraid as the enemy and would keep it from happening too often)

Duke slisscus: why is he jump infantry with bones of the seer?

Beast masters: are wych cult not gang.

Reavers: also wych cult, and the ability to bring that many cluster caltrops is a bit ridiculous. I'd leave it at one per 3 models for 10 pts, or let them all take it but at at least 15 points.

Grotrsque: what is the obsidian pillar?

Vect: I think it would not be undue to grant him eternal warrior.; I mean who is more eternal than the supreme tyrant of the dark city?

Incubi: I love this unit. So much so that I bring them to almost every game, but adding an extra str and attack might be enough to cover their cost.  2 wounds may be pushing it,  but t6 does help counteract that so idk.

Lelith: May be too strong if she takes Shaimesh venom,  10ish attacks,  ws9 wounding on a 2+ and no armor saves. Maybe shaimesh should be 3+?

Combat drugs: there was a good discussion on different drug tables people were considering for use in homebrew games ( I can't search it on my phone) you may want to look at.  Very good stuff.

Pain tokens: I think you've heard from previous posts about the tokens and I approve of the changes you have in mind.


I hope my review didn't seem too scathing. Everything I didn't mention,  was either unchanged or I loved it. I just wanted to play devils advocate because I intend to try and convince some friends to let me test play this codex. So I want it as balanced as possible.

Thank you for all the hard and good work you put into this project.  You rock.

Thank you so much for the critical feed back

alot of the stuff i left out or messed up on (obsidian pillar/ Duke being jump infantry) was because i work night shift and i finished this up at around 2:00 pm and i was exhausted.

Stinger Cannon: i agree with you might be a little OP ill probably change it to poison 3+ on all stinger weapons.

Liq gun: ill change the ap back to a D6 and write up a heavy version with my homebrew stats.

Generators: i was going to have them be Hp 2 and i was going to rework the webway portal later on so that is currently pending

Pulse Cannon: Name is easily changed ill think up something or other (and the crimson hunter has a pulse laser i do think its to similar)

Haketti's wrath and qa'leths blade: i dont think ill change the extra movement from wrath cause it only currently affects 2 units and 2 single models... and the blade i went a little power crazy i will admit ill tone it down to +2 strength AP 3 blind.

Darklight lashback was poorly named but until i play test it a bit i would like to see how often it will actually happen before i change anything

Duke: i kinda just copy pasted most of the entries and changed the entry from there, this mistake is only from oversight.

Beast masters & Reavers: ....... do i have to   and i will change the amount of cluster caltrops to one in every three

Grotesques: a obsidian pillar is a close combat weapon with strength+1 AP2 Cuncussive and melee

Vect: hmmm interesting proposal i will chew on it

Shaimesh venom: i wont change this just cause lelith gets really awsome with it but i will change it to only effect CCW and make it one use only

the pain tokens and combat drugs are works in progress i might include some of the stuff on the forum but idk


again thank you very much for the criticism i greatly appreciate it addressed some issues i overlooked.

If you move the beast masters and reavers to the wytch cult then the pack can move 18 inches if someone takes Hekatti's wrath.

One use only is a marvelous fix. Running lelith with that would be one viscious surprise. (Shaimesh venom).

I like the pillar.

You didn't address my incubi concerns though.

I have a friend willing to play test it with me so if you'd like I'll post any game results onto your other topic. (The one with just your codex link)

The Red King wrote:

If you move the beast masters and reavers to the wytch cult then the pack can move 18 inches if someone takes Hekatti's wrath.

One use only is a marvelous fix.  Running lelith with that would be one viscious surprise. (Shaimesh venom).

I like the pillar.

You didn't address my incubi concerns though.

I have a friend willing to play test it with me so if you'd like I'll post any game results onto your other topic. (The one with just your codex link)

hmmm i did change assault of the coven to only be used on the charge though so i guess its not to bad i think the 2 units would be a little OP with all the other wych coven rules i included tho.  Im being resistant to it for no reason idk...meh

Incubi: hmm 2 wounds might be a bit much hmmm ill tone it down back to 1

I would very much like you to play test it i want to hear about how everything plays

Just reposted the updated codex enjoy.

sorry for my belated response. Hard to text this stuff properly.

There's no reason that every wych unit has to have every wych cult special rule, so consider that I guess.

As for the incubi, I think a pally-esque style incubi might not be too bad, maybe make it a urian style upgrade for one unit of incubi in any army led by vect. +1 wound, maybe more ws or init (I'd be against a 2+ save though) except they must start in the unit with Vect of course. (don't have to stay there) or they could have to stay there if that is more balanced, giving vect a much more usable (if expensive) "court of the Archon"

I'll try to get in a game asap and let you know in your own thread.

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

Phantasm Grenade launcher: Grants Assault grenades to the unit containing them. Shooting Profile: range 12 S9. Roll to wound against leadership, on a success no wounds are caused but the targeted unit may not take any actions the following assault phase. (This includes overwatch, issuing challenges, and special abilities like purifying flame, mind shackle scarabs and wolf banners.) No saves of any kind may be taken against Phantasm Grenade launcher.
This is how we overcome over watch my friends. We shoot grenades full of crazy gas at them so they’re too busy freaking out to shoot at us as we run up to stab them in the face. Stack with terror field generators and torment grenade launchers for extra lolz.

This is an excellent change and one I had often thought about too. If Tau can circumvent the cover save mechanic, Eldar the AP mechanic (With their rending shuricats), It suits the DE to in some situations to evade overwatch. (Although in general, all of this rule-breaking by specific armies does engender codex creep I fear.)

I would also like to see mandrakes as a dedicated anti-psyker unit... I think it would give them a purpose and they're already somewhat immersed in the warp. Though how to implement, I know not.

Animus12 wrote:

I spent quite some time thinking about how to fix DE in 6th. This led to a kind of obsession actually. So much so that I avoided this site for a few months so that I wouldn't be overly influenced by what I read here while making a full Fandex. It's a bit wordy, but I hope you enjoy.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/28953002/DE_6th_Fandex_V1_1.pdf

Having just read your fandex,

I find the Pillager a little overpowered to my taste- to the point where i'd field 3 ravagers and 3 Pillagers, and now suddenly I've got room for Splinterborn, lead of course by an Archon with the splinter rifle artifact + shadow field. Or if i'm greedy enough, keep 3 units of Blasterborn. Tanks and aircraft can go shove a finger up their derriere. And after making a smoldering wreck of the enemy army, the Pillager can go to town with the Assault 4 weapons on the poor, ragged infantry. It's a unit that's asking to be spammed.

Also I'd make it an option to swap for 2 Twin-Linked Dark Lances rather than one- For Free-5 points.

I'd lose the interceptor- to prevent it from being used in an AT role.

Anyhow here's a 1500 pt list based on the fandex

Archon- Blaster, Shadow Field, Ghostplate, Venom Blade- 120

3x Blasterborn- Venom 2x SC, NS (EW)- 156
3x Blasterborn- Venom 2x SC, NS (EW)- 156

5x Warrior, Venom 2x SC, NS (EW)- 120
5x Warrior, Venom 2x SC, NS (EW)- 120
5x Warrior, Venom 2x SC, NS (EW)- 120
5x Warrior, Venom 2x SC, NS (EW)- 120

Pillager- HWB, SC, NS, FF (EW)- 100
Pillager- HWB, SC, NS, FF (EW)- 100
Pillager- HWB, SC, NS, FF (EW)- 100

Ravager- NS, FF (EW)- 125
Ravager- NS, FF (EW)- 125
Ravager- NS, FF (EW)- 125

Shardnest and impaler: A unit with a shardnet and Impaler reduces the number of attacks of an enemy unit in base contact by one to a minimum of one. Additionally a model with a Shardnet and Impaler gains +1 STR on the charge.
 
Shardnets got nerfed hard with the new wound allocation rules. They have to be in base contact to benefit from their effect while overwatch and removing casualties from the front means that they don't last long. Additionally you are getting both a shardnet AND an impaler. The rules certainly reflect the presence of a net, but what good is the impaler?
The idea for adding +1 to STR on the charge came from the fact the powerlances get ap 3 and +1 strength on the charge. Impalers aren't power weapons, but they certainly are spears so adding +1 to their strength when charging isn't completely from left field.

(Also note that this would give our favorite named succubus a much needed killing buff since she counts as coming with a shardnet and impaler.)  


Scourges: 20 points
May take four special weapons.
Special rules
To The Skies!: During the beginning of any shooting phase the unit may decide to activate the To The Skies rule, If they do then they gain skyfire and may only make snap shots at ground targets. Ground targets that don't have skyfire may only make snap shots at them and they may not be assaulted by ground units. At the end of any shooting phase after the turn when To The Skies was activated the squad may choose to deactivate the rule and return to the ground.
May purchase a Solarite
the Solarite may purchase interceptor for 15 points.
Possibly replace their plasma grenades with haywire grenades and allow them to assault flyers while To The Skies is activated. Taken in the context of how amazing the Eldar jump infantry are this hardly seems overpowered and it gives them a role that the army is sorely lacking.

Random observation, our MCs are on flying bases and are described as "descending from the air" in the codex. Wouldn't it be hilarious if they made them FMCs? absolutely ridiculous and stupid of course, but hilarious non the less.

P.S. I know this is necro posting, but the topic seems like one that we should keep going regardless of the amount of time that passes between posts.

Just read the fandex, and I liked it quite a bit. Love the terrorfex. I do agree that the pillager is a bit much, though my entire issue with it is the haywire battery. The chances that in one turn of shooting that just one of them would glance practically any vehicle to death are so high that you'd be an idiot not to use all your FA slots on them. I don't think any unit should be that much of an auto take, especially not in a force org slot that has some of our other army defining units in it. Not to mention that i'm pretty sure it'd be a more effective tank hunter than our actual tank hunter, and when its done doing that, if it takes the additional splinter cannon, it can pump 10 shots a turn into infantry.

I think just making it twin linked, assault 2 instead of assault 4 would make a big difference. At least then it would take more than one salvo to glance most vehicles to death. I just have this persistent image in my head of my opponent eye rolling as my pillagers pop three tanks a turn, with three ravagers flying around as well. I don't like that image.

I really like the warlord traits and the legacies of excess too.

1) I agree on the "battle focus" move for our vehicles. Not troops. Vehicles only.

2) I also would like to see 12'' vehicle move and full BS shooting from the unit inside.

3) LD reducing stuff would be great addition to our shock prows and other stuff.

4) Webway portals as Fortifications seems great. Or something like deploy with scatter. And assault from a WWP is vital for its use IMHO.

5) Some more options in weapons. And equalling point costs with Eldar guns.

6) Make the Haywire Blasters the same as Eldar.

7) For gods sake, we are supposed to be right behind Eldar in technology. Please make it show. :-)

Mandrakes... I love the unit. Please make them viable... Paintoken and little more oomph.

9) Nightshields giving NightFighting condition may be what we need. Although I am bit concerned that it might be too strong against some armies.

10) Kabalite Warriors - have access to HWG.

11) Razorwing Fighter - FA slot

12) Make bomber a real HS treat. Either Anti-Vehicle destroyer or perhaps an option for some kind of hallucinogenic bombs

13) Coven units could have a better FNP (4+) for fluff reasons.

14) A Strength stat to our weapons would go a looong way too... Although it will ramp up the cost of the weapons methinks.

15) Make scourges reasonably priced. Look at what can Swooping Hawks do for 16 pts...

16) Everyone is saying that Ravager is OP... well... Hornet anyone?

17) More Scout / Infiltrate rules for our vehicles and units.

18) More specialists like Incubi. Hexrifle "rangers"?

19) Option for grenades for Incubi.

Well that is just for now. :-D

aurynn wrote:

Mandrakes... I love the unit. Please make them viable... Paintoken and little more oomph.

I just love this emote. Gets everywhere

Court of the archon suggestion
Make them like the wolfguard and overlord court where you can assign them out to different squads. (remove the stupid 1-0 limit)

Lhamaeans: increase to 25 points. As long as an Lhamaean is in a squad the squad's CC attacks have the poison 4+ special rule. If they already have poison CC weapons improve the weapons by one (4+ becomes 3+ and so on. Note that this means you can't have two Lhamaeans in a squad without poison weapons and give 3+ poison. Also, the buff is removed as soon as she dies.)

Sslyth: Reduce their cost by 5 and give them the bodyguard special rule, they automatically pass LoS checks on a Archon.

Ur-Ghul: Change the max number to three and increase the points to twenty each. A squad with an Ur-ghul in it has the preferred enemy rule against squads containing psykers. The squad's deny the witch roll is improved by one for each Ur-ghul in the squad. A psyker may not be in the same squad as an Ur-ghul.(Change the fluff so that they are used by Archons like blood hounds to hunt down rouge pskyers that break the ban on powers in the dark city. Or maybe used to hunt craftworld eldar through the webway for sport.)

Assigning the various court members out is a creative idea. Kudos to you for thinking of it.