Back to my beloved DE. 1850 point competative list

So, where to begin... I am back.

Its been almost a year since my last post here. I was tired of the 6th edition effect on DE and the glass cannon playstyle  so I started to play Necrons. Now a year later, I miss my true love and I have come back.... and for some revenge.

Revenge in the sence of winning against powerplay-tournament armies. My local meta is dominated by Tau lists with ADL + 2 Riptides, CSM lists with ADL + a couple units of oblidarators, 2 units of cultists and 2+ dragons, Necron lists with flyer spam and Eldar lists with serpent spam. No assault what so ever, everything is shooting, shooting and some more shooting.... typical 6th!
No one is playing DE, no one. No one thinks that they can win a competative game.

So this is the list I have been working on, and planning of taking in to a local tournament.

Ancient Heamonculus, VB, LG

5 Wracks, LG

3x 3 trueborn + 2 SC + Venom + SC + NS

2x 5 warriors + blaster + venom + SC + NS

5 wyches + haywire + venom + SC + NS

3x Ravengers (Lances) + NS

ADL + Icarus

Allies:
Farseer + Jetbike

3 Jetbikes

Wraithknight + Suncannon, shield and Scatter laser

Thats 1849 points.

Heamon and Wracks man the ADL with the Icarus.

Now I know that the ADL is not DE style but I am tired of the dragons burning all of my army. The Icarus gives me also better range than the quadgun. FnP gives a kind of a save against those Dragons.

The Farseer takes the 2 "twinlinking" powers plus one more from Divination.

So what do you guys think? Is this a good list against that kind of armies? I just want to show them that DE can be as competative as the other power-popular armies.

not bad in my opinion, from earlier usage I can say that the sunknight is DA BOMB! Jetseer also gives a big boost for your units and as I read your opponents army styles, you're gonna need every hit you can! I wish you luck brother, give 'em a heck!

I am looking forward to use the sunknight. I know that the list should have been a pure DE to show them that DE can be a competative army - but the help our cousins can offer us is just to good to pass on and much needed against lists like that.

Nobody Else?

To add a hint for the big guy.. In my opinion, the sunknight is at his best when used in the most aggressive way. People seem to awfully lot use him as a gun-platform sneaking behind somekind of cover. No, no, no says I! Draw the fire with this baby! Give the image of an "easy target" for your opponent. Don't be afraid to assault when you have the shot. Just remember that being ballsy is different to being an idiot. The knight has his flaws (ap3 weapons, instakilling stuff..) But if you use him right, he'll be an invaluable unit, drawing the most bad-ass opponents away from your fragile troops and vehicles. Don't be afraid to assault either! This guy tears up terminators and meganobz like there's no tomorrow (6 s10 attacks in assault is no joke to anyone or -thing!) And even if you have to use the scattershield, remember to use it against opponent (blind). Don't know if you're already familiar with this or if I managed to give any usable tips for the sunknight but he has saved my behind so many times that I feel it's my DUTY to make right to him, in every way he desrves.

There isn't much that I'd change with this list as I like it as a whole.

I do have a few ideas though.
I'd be tempted to drop night shields on the three venoms and change the ancient Haemonculus to just a standard one. This leaves you with 60 pts to get other things in the list such as another unit of wracks (kept in reserve and used to sit on an objective or rushed forward as another target for them to choose between).

I'd also swap the lascannon for a quad gun but that's just preference (not sure how many pts this gives you spare but with the above 60 pts as well you could probably get a unit of reavers with a special weapon (just an option).

I'm not going to comment on the allies as I don't have any experience using the new eldar.

Hope this helps a little.

I would drop in my advice, but I play strictly dark kin. I do not dabble with allies.

Ly'khal, thx for the tips. I am too very excited about the sunknight. I am sure he will play his part in my forthcoming victories. (or at least I hope so, I haven't tried him yet).

Nullus: I feel that Night shields are escential to all of my vihicles. I follow the philosophy of either all or non vihicles  should have NS. Otherwise I am offraid of that target saturation will change too much.
The reason I choose an Ancient heamonculus and not a regular one is threefold. 1. He has an extra wound thus be able (at least in theory) survive the cursed baleflamer, 2. A higher leadership, I dont want a stupid leadership roll pin or make the squad run away and 3. +1 in BS which is nice since the Icarus cannon isn't twinlinked.

The Icarus cannon gives also a better range than the quad gun and since the strategy is based on outshooting the enemy, I think it will be ok. Its also cheaper.

One thing thought that I would love to my army is a venom for the wrack unit. So I need 75 points. I could take them from the sunknight (making him a wraithknight) but the range of 48" of the suncannon vs the 36" range of the heavy wraithcannons Again speaks for better target saturation. I wouldn't want the knight being the only thing inside 36" of the enemy.

Shadowwharte: Please, any input is needed.

Any ideas how to get another venom?

If you want another venom I would drop the ADL. If flyers are your main problem the ADL gun will be priority target and die first turn the opportunity arises. For the most part I ignore flyers. I also think that 1 minimal wych squad won't work, enemy will drop it and there goes all your haywire. If you are worried about ignore cover ensure all vehicles have FF which fortunately Venoms are stock with them. This has helped me so far against my meta, which is a lot of SM flyers. I know most people have success with 5 man wych squads, but I don't use them. Always have read and agree with needing more than one if you do use them

Do be honest, I don't have good experiences with the wyches. Inthis army I tend to use them defensively. Their roll is to catch Deep Striking or disembarking from stormravens dreadnaughts, drop pods or outflanking BA predators (if any are using them anymore). They are good against not zooming flyers as well. So the plan is to keep them back and only shoot with their venom. I don't have much to support them with if I use them offensive.

I hope that the ADL will be hard to take out since it will sit way back in my deployment zone, but I agree with you that it will be a top priority for my opponent.

At the same time I admire you ability to ignore flyers, how do you do it? 3 dragons ? 5-6 scythes? Teach me, master...

So, some feedback. I tried the list 3 times now. There are some prons and cons to report.
The SunKnight is DA BOOM!! I was very interested to see if he could be the worth of 300 points and I think that (in this army at least) he is worth more than that! In all 3 games he was a bullet magnet and he only died in the 3rd game vs Tau. (in turn 5). With the twinlinked suncannon he is able to give a lot of wounds and in combinations with a venom or two they wipe out what ever they fire upon. 2 out 3 Ravengers twinlinked gives my enemy something to think about.
I played vs BA and IG, SM ravens and salamanders and the third game was against Tau who had the new riptide from forgeworld (experimental rules - totally nuts rules). I won all the games but only just. So I havent tried the army vs drakes yet.
Cons: I don't think that ADL has a place in this army since in all of my 3 games it was useless even though the BA and IG player had 5 flyers with him. It didn't do anything.

So based on the experiences of these 3 games I want to try something new.

The new list:

Heamonculus + LG
3x 3 trueborn + 2 SC + Venom + SC + NS

2x 5 warriors + blaster + venom + SC + NS

5 wyches + haywire + venom + SC + NS

3 Wracks + venom + NS + SC

3x Ravengers (Lances) + NS

Skyshield landing pad

Allies:
Farseer + Jetbike

3 Jetbikes

Wraithknight + Suncannon, shield and Scatter laser

Thats 1849 points.

So ADL and ancient are out, gaining one more venom. The haemonculus joins the wracks in that venom.

On the skyshield there is space enougth for 2 Ravengers, Sunknight and the Farseer with the jetbikes. Giving them 3+ coversave (as it is a fortification) and 4+ inv save (when shields are up) Now thats not bad for 75 points. I need to try it.

Glad you get a good results with sunknight (cool name btw)

But you only get 4+cover save on top of the pad. Behind one of its pylons you get 3+.

Vasara wrote:

But you only get 4+cover save on top of the pad. Behind one of its pylons you get 3+.

Why is that? Did I miss something?

Battlements such as aegis defence line, upper part of bastion and upper part of landing pad are all 4+ cover. The lover parts are 3+ Since they are building it self and have no mention in the rules for being othervice.

Pretty sure the Skyshield specifies Invulnerable.

Anggul wrote:

Pretty sure the Skyshield specifies Invulnerable.

It does. From the pad when the sides are up. But it doesn't grant you 3+ cover. Except when you are behind the pylons.

Its been classed as 4+ behind the pylons at the GT heat now vasara

My Verdict? WAY to many points spent on upgrades.

80 points on Nightshields, how much extra is the sun cannon? 40?

Trueborn with cannons don't work unless your lucky with terrain or you have an aegis

Blaster Warrior units are a total waste of points make them wych's or ditch the blaster and use them as more anti infantry

I think the Skyshield has it's uses for some armies but for dark eldar is essentially a bit of scrap.

Wheres the farseer going? on his own? without mantel of the laughing god hes easy meat.

I'd never take the wraithknight with suncannon, Dark Eldar's weakness is ranged anti-tank not high av infantry.

I like the idea of the wraithknight as your combat detterent, makes people have a second thought when charging towards your line.

The farseer goes with the bikes and propably on the skyshield out of LOS. Trueborn with cannons work just fine. And the nightshields are a must since they Can put me out of range of 36" guns while inside 36" of range. There are 120 poison shots in there from 36", now thats a lot. With all those riptides, wraithknights and upcoming Nids out there poison has become a great threat. ( at least in our meta). The sky shield is there to give the sunknight and a couple of ravengers a 4++. Wave serpents and markerlights are a pain so I need to try it. I like the idea of removing the blasters from the warriors but I dont Think that 3 ravengers are enough. I need more dark light.  

But again I need to try this army against more opponents. NeXT game is vs and ETC player WHO has a SM/Tau army.

Canyoneromikos wrote:

My Verdict? WAY to many points spent on upgrades.

80 points on Nightshields, how much extra is the sun cannon? 40?.

Quoted for truth. Upgrades are the bane of tournament level Dark Eldar. For the points you spent in upgrades alone, you could have another unit of 5 wyches or warriors w/blaster in a venom with extra cannon.
Which is more valuable?

Skulnbonz wrote:

Quoted for truth. Upgrades are the bane of tournament level Dark Eldar. For the points you spent in upgrades alone, you could have another unit of 5 wyches or warriors w/blaster in a venom with extra cannon.
Which is more valuable?

Thats a hard question to answer. Sure one more venom with a troop choice in it will give me another 12 poison shots and with MC all over the place (riptides, WK and the upcoming Nids) then I can see the uses of it.... but when that is said: Night shields have saved a lot more than one Venom i many occasions. I like your ideas though and I thank you for your input. I need to test them..

After a long discussion down at my local club,  I decided to drop the skyshield. There are just too many unanswered questions about it. Cover saves, placement, units on and under it etc... I changed the list a bit. The reason was some hints from a god friend of mine with more 40k experience, although not with DE. He pointed out the stasis problem that the skyshield would give me since it can't move. A point allready mentioned it this forum.

The new list has two new elements in it I haven't tried before so a feedback from you guys will be much appreciated. They are: 1. Wracks as troops on Venoms and, 2. Wave Serpent.

The list:

Hemonculus + LG

3x3 Trueborn + 2 SC + Venom + SC + NS

2x5 Wracks + LG + Venom + SC + NS

3 Wracks + Venom + SC + NS (heamon joins here)

3x Ravengers + NS

Farseer + Jet Bike

3 Jet bikers

5 Dire Avenger + Wave Serpent + scatters Lasers + Shuriken cannon + holo field

WK + suncannon, shield and scatter laser.


Any of you tried Wave Serpents? I tried to play vs them and they ROCK (at least against us).

Wracks with LG  as troops: Does that work?

So if you're going to ally Eldar and want to kill flyers, bring a squad of dark reapers with an exarch. Give him the fast shot upgrade and TL him with your farseer. Put him on an Icarus and you get 2 str9 shots bs5 TL against anything coming in from reserve. Even the darn hell turkey will think twice. If you have the points, throw an EML with flakk missles for skyfire and TL the whole squad. Fast shot means he gets 2 str7 bs5 TL shots with skyfire and the rest of the squad (give them starahot missles) will put out 4 st8 shots ap2 I believe. Not skyfire but still.

Now that is like 400 ish points and replaces the WK (I know, I love him too), but it will ruin a flyers day. Or anything coming from reserves. Or anything with a 3+ save (8 str5 ap3 shots at bs4 TL not counting the exarch)

So, I tried the list (with a few changes) vs SM, salamanders.

The changes were: 2x 5 wracks out, and 2 x 5 warriors in.
5 dire avengers out, 10 guardians in.

He had: HQ
Terminator Captain, LC, Primarch Wrath. 145

TROOP
5x Scouts w. combi-flamer, shotguns, Land Speeder Storm w. heavy flamer. 110
5x Scouts w. combi-melta, shotguns, Land Speeder Storm w. heavy flamer. 110
5x Scouts. 55
10x TAC, flamer, drop pod. 180
10x TAC, meltagun, multimelta, Razorback w. TL AS. 235

ELITE
10 Sternguard w. heavy flamer, drop pod w. beacon 285
5 Terminators, SS/TH. 225
1 Ironclad Dreadnought, heavy flamer, drop pod. 180

FAST
1 Storm Talon, skyhammer. 125

HEAVY
2x TFC. 200


I controlled the game but the drop pods made a mess. 10 sternguard made 14 wounds on the wraithknight with hell fire. Ouch... Trueborn with splinter cannons rock! They just make so many wounds.

All in all it came dowm to a draw only because I shot at a drop pod to close to the objective that my HQ+wracks had. The drop exploded, killed 2 wracks and then they ran for it. All that in the last turn. So there I lost warlord and an objective. LOL!!

I have made a BR of it, but its in Danish. There are pictures though...

http://www.powerfist.dk/forum/index.php?topic=73284.0

A few changes based on old and new experiences. Having only lost 2 games out of my last 15, I must say I like this list. BUT....I need more Strength weapons. The wave serpent is taken out as a priority and the 10 guardians inside it don't get much action. So the list list is changed once more making it more spammy(?)

Heamon + LG

3 trueborn + 3 blasters + Venom + NS + SC

2 x 3 trueborn + SC + Venom + NS + SC

3 x 5 warriors + Venom + NS + SC

2 x wracks + Venom + NS + SC

3 x ravengers + NS (Lances all)

Jetseer

2 x 3 Eldar jet bikes

Wraithknight with 2 wraithcannons.... (yes, thats right, my beloved sunknight is out)

So what do you think?

This list will take on ETC lists (playtesting them against my list)