'Ard Boyz 2 lists

Hehehe

I don't really like either list (mainly the dias of fail) but I think the second one will give you more options (deepstriking) guess I'm more of a min/maxer when it comes to tournies.

So I took a look a both lists. Instead of commenting seperatly, I'm just going to comment in general about some units.

1. You say you need more DLs in the army, I agree. The dias isnt the way in my opinion. Will explain later.

2. Vect his a beat down machine, that 1 PF will ruin his and your day. My recommendation for the Bloodbrides is 3 Shardnets. Keep vect in the middle of the shardnets reducing all incoming attacks mostly towards him and the squad a bit. Also, maybe replace the AGO with a PGL, reason being Vect doesnt need help killing things, he needs help staying alive.

3. Razorwing, good in alot of lists, just not yours. You have so many warriors with SCs in raiders which makes you good enough for AI. What you need is AT so drop the Razor and add a RAV. Thus not needing the Dias anymore and giving the Bloodbrides a raider. Also, extra points for other things in your army.

Thats pretty much my suggestions for minor changes.

4. I would prefer the duke over malys. In my opinion she is the worst HQ in the codex, then comes drazar, thats just me though. She doesnt provide anything to the army except precog. The duke at leasts makes everything deepstrike, better rolls for CD for your wyches / bloodbrides, and extra AI for 1 warrior squad. He is also way better in CC that malys.

Kayto_Karite wrote:

4. I would prefer the duke over malys. In my opinion she is the worst HQ in the codex, then comes drazar, thats just me though. She doesnt provide anything to the army except precog. The duke at leasts makes everything deepstrike, better rolls for CD for your wyches / bloodbrides, and extra AI for 1 warrior squad. He is also way better in CC that malys.

Don't forget she makes you immune to psychic power "effects", that means any and all shooting psychic powers as well, because the shot is the effect. Which is quite valuable with all the new psychic powered gods running around. Still she's cheap, and adds some unique abilities, I find her much better than decapitator or lelith.

Anyway, on to the lists. I'm going to start by telling you to go and look at the scenarios, they post them for a reason.
As you lists stand right now, you are probably giving away too many points in Scenario 3. The instinct will be to make vect your army general, so people will focus him and destroy him and his whole unit even if it takes their whole army. And it will be worth it, 200 for the brides, 200 for the Daies, and almost 500 for vect. Plus with no fast attack, you are giving and extra battle point.

Mission 1 is kill points, and with so many fragile raiders and venoms moving up you'll have to kill fast to stay ahead. One foot bound lance warrior squad to terrain sit might do wonders.

As for the Duke over Malys, I'd want more wyches to get the drug benefit for the Duke. Maybe even just a standard Archon instead of either of the named characters.

I'm still wrestling with the Vect/Dais decision myself, it's just so many points wrapped up into one raider. I'm going to playtest the list a bit and come to a decision after that.

I agree with malys giving protection from psi powers, but only for her and the unit she is attached too, and it doesnt include the vehicles if im correct. If it was a bubble of like 6in then i probably would have her in almost every list.

I agree that the duke CD rule is only good if the list had more wyches, but his deepstrike rule is still benificial for the raiders he has in the list, or until he gets rid of raiders if he chooses.

I cant see myself ever bringing a dias. for the reasons listed below.

1. Its a transport, so your going to go more than 6in with it when you need to drop someone off.

2. It can only shoot 1 of the DLs at 12in, so if you want to shoot all 3 you can only move 6in

3. Yeah its 13av but its still open topped, a good melta still gets +2 on the chart if it pens.

4. It cant take any upgrades accoreding to the FAQ, so it only depends on 13av and flat out cover saves if you choose to not shoot.

5. its 200pts for a raider with better armor and no upgrades. I just cant count it as a ravager cause the lack of aerial butt.

True about the PGL, just thought if i suggested to go defensive with shardnets might continue the trend.

The reason why i suggest to remove the AGO is because you have alot of attacks on the charge. Vect 7 +3 ReRoll PW, Syren 5 +4 PW, Hekatrix 32 STR 3. So far with the meta most squads are barely going to be anymore than 6 man strong if playing marines. Depending on the CD roll for the brides your going to probably wipe any squad you charge on your turn. Thus letting you get shot up to death in your opponents turn. Now you might say you got FNP and/or you were lucky enough to charge / consolidate into cover and be good. But, anything thats spamming AP2 or STR 6+ will ignore FNP and if your not in cover your pretty much screwed.

If PGL isnt your thing for the squad then maybe switch up the syrens weapon to maybe a VB and/or give her a blast pistol to help destroy a vehicle. Yeah its 6in but by an act of god you might be at the right distance that you dont need to fleet, and you blow up a vehicle and you get to charge.

I'll open with saying I actually love Malys (though mostly for the fluff and dark elf boobies, but I digress)

My suggestion would be to take the second list of the two.

You didn't ask for any build input, but I would suggest the second list could benefit nicely by dropping the Razorwing to a Ravager and adding Blasters to Warrior squads - just a general threat increase and with the Duke running around and your very classy and classic Gunboats I doubt your need for an uber anti-horde tech piece like the RW.

My thoughts,
Thor.

I prefer list 2.

But overall I think dropping the dias and including some incubi could be good too....

That and I love haywire. More wyches....

Did I mention I love haywire.

List 2 is the better of the 2, but I think both have good options depending on your likely opponents.

[quote="Baron Tordeck"]

Kayto_Karite wrote:

And the reason I didnt ask for true build input is due to the lists are using all I have or can proxy.[/color]

Looking this over, and not changing any of the units, could you swap a unit of truborn or bloodbrides for a unit of incubi in list 2?

I'm not sure it would make a difference points wise, but I think with all the wyches and shooting available to you, that unit of incubi could be the hammer you could use to give your opponents some real issues with target priority.

or not, its just a thought. I still prefer list 2.

I would not swap out either for Incubi, honestly.

Trueborn -> Incubi swaps are trading anti-mech for anti-infantry and he doesn't need/want that sort of exchange.

Bloodbride -> Incubi is a lot closer to reality, but with the lack of a PGL on Vect and the lack of Haywires he's really tossing away a lot of the adaptability and potential in his Death Star which to my mind would make it weaker despite the obvious damage output gains.

Thor665 wrote:

Bloodbride -> Incubi is a lot closer to reality, but with the lack of a PGL on Vect and the lack of Haywires he's really tossing away a lot of the adaptability and potential in his Death Star which to my mind would make it weaker despite the obvious damage output gains.

FWIW, I think the reasoning here is sound.

It's also fury, but it does signify something.

Was that one too cerebral?

Thor665 wrote:

It's also fury, but it does signify something.

Was that one too cerebral?

I dunno. I didn't get it. I'm within months of getting a PhD, so I'm gonna give myself the benefit if the doubt and go with cultural.

It is Shakespeare, so it is fairly culturally focused.

But of the kind that I should know. I only go as far as "I am mad but north-north-west"... OTOH, I could probably confoozle you with a chunk of Kalevala.

I've read the translated work...but yeah, probably a reference wouldn't twig me to it.
'but mad'

Thor665 wrote:

I've read the translated work...but yeah, probably a reference wouldn't twig me to it.
'but mad'

Thor 665 3 - 0 Nepenthe.

I think you could struggle against mech-heavy lists but nothing really sticks out to me as a problem, I wouldn't take the Bloodbrides maybe trade them out for another squad of Trueborn w/ Blasters and stay in your vehicles until most of your opponent's army is on foot.

I guess my big niggle is the 22 lances (albeit on 13 platforms, which is better than some lists I've seen - and I'm ignoring the Duke's pistol) seems terribly light and chancy as far as dealing with competitive mech builds.

I did a 2000 point battle a few weeks ago and had 29 lances (maybe a touch more) on 17 platforms...and it still took me about 4 rounds of shooting to deal with 5 Venoms, 2 Ravagers, 2 Raiders, and a Voidraven - which isn't even the most overamped mech list in existence.

Yeah, you've got the Haywires (2 groups of them - I ran one in the above list) which can be really helpful, though with the Bloodbrides that seems a waste of the Death Star...though I'm sure you understand the conditional use of those haywires on a per game basis.

But I can think of a couple of fairly "net standard" GK, SW, and BA lists (not to mention the IG mech spam-a-pah-looza) that could cause serious issues for the list.

Probably my advice would be to rework the Duke's build (drop the Duke entirely - since with Vect in the list you're probably not DSing) and...well...do the usual touch of Venom spam. I really think +2 Venoms (which your list could do in 1 Troop and 1 Elite slot) would fulfill the anti-infantry power of the Duke easily, and you could use it to bring some more anti-tank as well.

My thoughts,
Thor.