Dark Eldar Delete Button

Most people dislike scourges and I have for a long time, but I've thought of a different way of utilizing them/ preventing them from getting destroyed before they can do anything. That is deepstriking a kitted out unit of ten scourges.

Think about it... for every five scourges two may take pretty much any kind of ranged weapon from the armory except arcane gear. Ontop of that shard carbines have the potential to be destructive. So lets say you take a squad with 10 scourges. Upgrades would be 4 blasters ( a bit pricey) and a Solarithe upgrade (probably better off with a carbine than a blast pistol). The unit comes out to 290 points which is definitely a point sink for any DE army. I agree if you started these guys on the board they would not be worth it.

Lets say you are running a gun boat army with 2 squads of blasterborn. You got maybe 2 venoms with wyches and haywire grenades and some raiders with warriors. Turn one you shoot your army across the board at one part of the opponents army. You keep your whole army together like a DE player should. Turn 2/3 you drop these badboys in either next to an enemy squad or because of the blasters even next to a tank. Thats 18 poisoned shots and 4 blaster shots. That will wipe a lot of targets off the board and you will be in range of your enemies with 100% of its original unit composition. On top of that fact your army is right there with the scourges in range of the enemy so they won't get shot to death.

Is this a viable option? maybe even running them in an army with Duke and drop them and a raider in the same area of the board. I know we like target saturation so deep striking isn't always our strong suite but one squad of scourges and a gunboat raider off the board at the beginning of the game isn't all that horrble.

People dislike Scourges?

What?

Scourges have been a mainstay of my army for years. They're so damn useful!
Even when not kitted out, a unit of ten with their basic Shard Carbines dropping close enough to Guard, Tau, Orks, and especially Nids, and that's goodbye enemy unit! There are few things funnier in my book than a unit of Scourge appearing from nowhere and just ripping through say, a squad of Tyranid Warriors, or whatever large beasty said Nid player is fielding that day. The look on an opponents face when you throw down 30 poisoned shots that weren't on the board a moment ago is a thing of beauty not to be scoffed at.

Even if they do suffer a bit afterwards (which they shouldn't, having one of the best saves in your army PLUS a 6+ invulnerable) they're usefulness as a one-shot "screw you" to one of your opponent's units is invaluable for my army and I've never drop them out.

My biggest issue with it is how easily it would be wiped on the turn after it dropped paired with the cost of it. For the same number of points I could get greater firepower split up amongst multiple units...so why wouldn't I do that?

Edit: I don't think people 'dislike' Scourges...it's just people recognize they are not the most efficient expenditure of points.

If your army is there to support them thought they might not die as fast.... Happy to see this is viable.

There are some stupid things like Interceptor now in games. So they wont even fire with their 100% model count first turn after deepstrike.

I play mass-jumper Blood Angels; I know when deep-striking works and when it's a bad plan. Scourges are just too expensive and fragile for what you get. As a one-shot suicide 'no' button, they just don't cut it. As an example, my BA run Sternguard in a pod full of melta. It comes to fewer points than the kitted out scourges above, lands turn 1 (as opposed to an indeterminate turn between turns 2 and 4), and is more likely to survive the incoming return fire. In addition, it's also more likely to kill its target (especially armour).

There's also the factor that for the cost of 10 scourges with 4 blasters, you can get 9 reavers with 3 blasters, an arena champ, and a venom blade, and still come out ahead in terms of points. Also, as Azdrubael says, interceptor is a thing. A very annoying thing at that.

I run 5 scourges with 2 haywire blasters, and it works so well as a 'finisher' unit, for want of a better term. Deep-striking them has never proved as advantageous as starting them on table. They're fantastic for taking the last hull point off of a vehicle, or finishing an infantry unit that only has one or two models left. All for a very reasonable 130 points. It's great for when you need to finish something off, but can't justify using a full capacity unit to do the job (you don't want your yet-to-fire ravager wasting its shooting on that 1 hull point Land Raider, but it needs to go down. Similarly a dual-cannon venom has better things to do than kill those 2 tactical marines, but they need disposed of before they vanish out of sight).

I second everything Panic Puppet said, they've only ever done well for me starting on the board - in fact, when I've started them on the board they've won me games (though that was in 5th with haywire blasters stun-locking enemy armour). Deep striking such a pricey unit is too risky for my liking, every time I have they've missed with their special weapons then inevitably been templated. The cluster formation they have to come down in and stay in if you want them to shoot really hurts them in that respect.

Ten of them with four haywire blasters, or maybe two haywire blasters and two heat lances, jumping up a flank will certainly give most opponents pause for thought. That said, I've only run mine in squads of five with two haywire blasters, and have yet to try a bigger squad. Five seem to work fine at 1750 points and less. Ten are just too expensive for me, their cost being equivalent to two Ravagers and change. Or Reavers, if you've filled your heavy supports.

Azdrubael wrote:

There are some stupid things like Interceptor now in games. So they wont even fire with their 100% model count first turn after deepstrike.

Also you've just clustered a very expensive unit into the smallest possible area and someone with say, a thunderfire cannon, or any decent large blast weapon, will just smile and say thank you. Not to mention that the 18 poison shots and 4 blaster shots kill, on average, 4 MEQ.

Not really seeing the upside here.

I really like the scourge models, though their damage output is too little for my tastes. If they could be equipped with haywire grenades or could take more heavy weapons then I'd probably field them more often.

I've been reading up on Webway Portals and they look like a pretty reliable way to get small units of scourges into enemy lines using webways or deepstrike along with immediate support from other units. This would change the play style of my army drastically their "30" fire range for shardarbines and blasters (Greater Distance for Haywire) inch range out of a webway is no joke. And if the enemy shoots at your squad of five scourges with two blasters worth 140 points thats fine because: A) They have one of the best armour saves that we got including an invul. and B) Thats shooting that they could be using on other units you are shoving down their throat out of the webway.

Reavers out of a webway could also work but you sacrifice sharcarbines for more mobility and comprable surviveability.

How do you think, is it worth taking Solarite with some CC upgrade (Power Lance, VB) in a small unit? If they are considered finisher units, can they also finish in this load out?

The problem with a WWP is that you have to de-mech yourself 12" up the table on turn 1 to be sure of having access for the scourges coming in turn 2. Which is how far they could have gone had they started on the table anyway. Otherwise you run the risk of them turning up BEFORE you place the portal, and then they're scuppered.

Exactly. Even if you're bringing stuff out of the portal to support the deep striking Scourges (who you won't know the arrival time of), all that stuff is going to do is stand there and get shot. It doesn't matter what army you're facing, pretty much anyone is going to be able to point their guns at you and blow you off the board. Only the Talos, Cronos, Grotesques and khymerae heavy beasts really stand a chance of surviving whatever shooting comes their way if you can't get into cover (short of extreme luck on shadowfield saves anyway). That's if your entire army doesn't turn up piecemeal anyway.

Honestly, I never understood the fuss about webway portals in 5th, I used them because the internet said to and lost game after game as my opponent wiped out my units one by one. I only started winning when I dropped it from the list, and now that it's even worse it just isn't worth the points and the effort it takes to get it where you want. Most opponents will thank you for dumping members of one of the most lightly armoured, squishy races in the game closer to them without the ability to assault and no vehicle to take a few hits for them first.

Mr Believer wrote:

Exactly. Even if you're bringing stuff out of the portal to support the deep striking Scourges (who you won't know the arrival time of), all that stuff is going to do is stand there and get shot. It doesn't matter what army you're facing, pretty much anyone is going to be able to point their guns at you and blow you off the board. Only the Talos, Cronos, Grotesques and khymerae heavy beasts really stand a chance of surviving whatever shooting comes their way if you can't get into cover (short of extreme luck on shadowfield saves anyway). That's if your entire army doesn't turn up piecemeal anyway.

Honestly, I never understood the fuss about webway portals in 5th, I used them because the internet said to and lost game after game as my opponent wiped out my units one by one. I only started winning when I dropped it from the list, and now that it's even worse it just isn't worth the points and the effort it takes to get it where you want. Most opponents will thank you for dumping members of one of the most lightly armoured, squishy races in the game closer to them without the ability to assault and no vehicle to take a few hits for them first.

I practically always massacred with my webway list in 5th

Scourges are a mainstay in my army. I think it is just hard for most people to pump 200+ into a unit that might die in a turn or two.

How do you use them, and how do you find it aids your wincon to use them as opposed to another option? Because for 200+ points, I can think of a lot of stuff that seems superior to Scourges I'll admit.

For me the biggest deterrent to using scourges actually has nothing to do with them. 5 with 2 haywire blasters cost 130, but for 133 you can take 7 allied Warp Spiders. You lose a little range but get increased mobility, durability, body count, damage output (against non-AV14), Ld 9, Battle Focus, and Hit & Run. Makes scourges very hard to justify in my mind.

Bugs_N_Orks wrote:

For me the biggest deterrent to using scourges actually has nothing to do with them.  5 with 2 haywire blasters cost 130, but for 133 you can take 7 allied Warp Spiders.  You lose a little range but get increased mobility, durability, body count, damage output (against non-AV14), Ld 9, Battle Focus, and Hit & Run.  Makes scourges very hard to justify in my mind.

I guess the issue here is that, other things being equal, the Spiders actually carry a cost considerably larger than 133pts: the cost of an Eldar HQ and Troops choice, which at the very minimum is another 130pts. If you're already running something like a Jetseer then yeah, Spiders are probably the logical choice before one would consider Scourges.

lcfr wrote:

I guess the issue here is that, other things being equal, the Spiders actually carry a cost considerably larger than 133pts: the cost of an Eldar HQ and Troops choice, which at the very minimum is another 130pts. If you're already running something like a Jetseer then yeah, Spiders are probably the logical choice before one would consider Scourges.

True, but the points spent on an Eldar HQ and Troops is hardly dead weight, they've got some seriously useful options there.

Zeusius wrote:

Most people dislike scourges and I have for a long time, but I've thought of a different way of utilizing them/ preventing them from getting destroyed before they can do anything. That is deepstriking a kitted out unit of ten scourges.

Think about it... for every five scourges two may take pretty much any kind of ranged weapon from the armory except arcane gear. Ontop of that shard carbines have the potential to be destructive. So lets say you take a squad with 10 scourges. Upgrades would be 4 blasters ( a bit pricey) and a Solarithe upgrade (probably better off with a carbine than a blast pistol). The unit comes out to 290 points which is definitely a point sink for any DE army. I agree if you started these guys on the board they would not be worth it.

Well, there are a few problems right off the bat:

- They have nothing to make their deep strike more accurate - so you either have to place them quite far away from your targets (not always possible), or risk a mishap.

- You're unlikely to deep strike them into cover, so the likelihood is that they'll be out in the open - and scourges are not good at taking fire.

- I'm paying a lot for 4 S8 AP2 lance shots, which I can get in various other slots. If I planned to use them at all, I'd probably use Haywire Blasters or Heat Lances (since neither are available elsewhere). Either way, it seems like Reavers make for a better and more durable platform.

Zeusius wrote:

Thats 18 poisoned shots and 4 blaster shots. That will wipe a lot of targets off the board and you will be in range of your enemies with 100% of its original unit composition.

No, it won't.

Maybe a vehicle (though, even then, the odds aren't going to be in your favour a lot of the time). But, most other squads, not a chance. You've got 3 blaster hits (let's be generous and assume they all wound), and 12 poison hits, which turn into 6 wounds. So... that's a grand total of 5 dead marines (assuming they weren't in cover).

It might help you wipe a unit off the board, but it's very unlikely to do so by itself (with the possible exception of heavy-weapon teams).


I guess for me it boils down to 2 things:

1) I don't see what this unit adds that I can't get elsewhere in my list. Lots of poison shots? I have venoms and warriors for that - and both have better ranges. Blasters? I have ravagers, trueborn and raiders for lances.

2) This unit seems very fragile, and I have to put it in a lot of danger to get it to do its job. It's also adversely affected by a lot of rules - anything that penalises reserve rolls, anything with interceptor, anything along the lines of the GK psychic power that creates areas of 'mishaps'.

Personally, I prefer smaller units of scourges - with either 2 dark lances (to act as heavy weapon teams - somewhat ironically for a Fast Attack unit), or 2 Haywire Blasters (to try and finish off vehicles, take pot-shots at infantry, finish off squads and generally make nuisances of themselves).

The Shredder wrote:

Personally, I prefer smaller units of scourges - with either 2 dark lances (to act as heavy weapon teams - somewhat ironically for a Fast Attack unit), or 2 Haywire Blasters (to try and finish off vehicles, take pot-shots at infantry, finish off squads and generally make nuisances of themselves).

Really darklances? Won't that make their mobility useless? And aren't sniperborn better for that role?

Thor665 wrote:

How do you use them, and how do you find it aids your wincon to use them as opposed to another option? Because for 200+ points, I can think of a lot of stuff that seems superior to Scourges I'll admit.

I use a five man squad and suually out fit it for infantry destruction. I deep strike them in once the soft targets are out, and shoot the ever living crap out of them. There are sometimes though that I have them go tank hunting. Mainly, when I do this, I deep strike them in with Dark Lances, make sure they are nice and far away from the target in quest and open fire. I use them more as a sniper force in that situation.

Elzadar wrote:

Really darklances? Won't that make their mobility useless? And aren't sniperborn better for that role?

As I said, if I take them with dark lances, I basically treat them as a heavy weapon team. And, yes, it does make their mobility useless - just like any other infantry unit with dark lances.

Are Sniperborn Trueborn with dark lances? If so, then yes they would probably be my first choice. However, they're only available in limited slots - and I might well want to use them for their ability to carry 4 blasters. So, if I run out of Elite slots, I'll move onto arming my scourges with dark lances.

I'm not saying this is this is the ideal build, but I think it's a decent one if you want more darklight weapons in your list.

i have used them with cannons for some extra ranged poison but mostly they are best left at 5 man 2hwb

I'm a strong advocate of the 5 Scourge with 2 HWB unit, they are a great softener or finisher and also can actually assault lock units like broadsides for reasonably long periods, especially once they have a paintoken.