The Kabal of the Vile Rose: 1,000pt and 1,500pt campaign army updates

Hiya folks, so I'm taking part in a local run campaign with a few weird rules:

- 1000pt invasion force. Once your list is created and 'locked in' then the Force Organisation chart no longer affects your army and there is no minimum unit size for squads purchased after this point.

- no fortifications

- if your army includes infiltrators you can see your opponents armylist before the putting down terrain, rolling for deployment etc

- Lord of War: your warlord (funny name eh?!) is automatically this guy, he gains stats (close combat related ones only sadly) from winning games or loses stats afterwards if killed in the game.

- once created, your army is 'locked in' - it can only be modified by winning games (rolling on a random chart to see with unit type and how many points you get: 50pts upgrade 1 unit, ) or losing games (your army suffers some crippling results, so winning is critical!)

I personally don't really love the ruleset but its a chance for me to inflate my ego by beating guys who regularly state that Dark Eldar are unplayable; I'd like to prove them otherwise!

So, here's my list:


Archon: 105
Blaster, Shadowfield

10 Warriors: 100
Splinter Cannon

Raider: 90
Dark Lance
Nightshields, Splinter Racks, Flickerfield

8 Warriors: 87
Blaster

Raider: 80
Nightshields, Flickerfield

6 Reavers: 172
2 Cluster Caltrops

Beatmaster Monster Pack: 144
2 Beastmasters
5 Khymera
4 Razorwing Flocks

Autarch: 150
Mantle of the Laughing God
Laser Lance, Banshee Mask, Fusion Gun, Eldar Jetbike

6 Eldar Rangers: 72

TOTAL: 1000pts on the nose!

I know I know, its being led by an Archon and not a Haemonculi, however I felt that, if I can get some wins under my belt, this guy will get PUMPED with the extra stats and later on if I roll the HQ choice to apply points to. For the moment though, he's a 2+ to hit Blaster and wound shield for the unit of 9 warriors (who also pack a blaster and are mounted in a Raider with a DL; I wanted a troop carrying Ravager!).

Both raiders are well kitted out defensively (I know, flickerfields are a weird choice), this is because: a) I need them alive to keep the troops going and b) I'm up against Tau for my first game of the campaign.

The warrior squads are simply there to claim objectives, drive by and add some bodies to the list. The Reaver squad has gone through many incarnations but I settled on a unit of 6 as 9 seemed overkill for 1000pts.

The beastpack draws fire and is the only true assault unit in my list: its literally there to run straight at the enemy shouting BOO! a lot as it goes.

Finally, allies. I wanted Eldar in my list. I cannot decide between the Mantarch and Jetseer or Rangers or Guardian Jetbikes, they all have pros and cons. In the end I settled for the Mantarch as I needed another board control piece that could effectively nuke tanks and heavy weapon squads/light vehicles in combat.

In the end I liked the extra ability for taking infiltrators (see opponent's army list) and figured that the precision shots could come in handy as well as the Bladestorm 12" pistols. The high cover save and troop unit sat on an objective with 36" weapons would also prove useful.

However, considering my criteria:
- solid main detachment HQ (Warlord)
- Eldar allies

is this really a half-decent/viable looking list? I could do with any points possible as this has to be 'locked in' by next friday...

PS. My first opponent is Tau. No idea what the list will look like as I've never played Tau but I half expect a Riptide to appear as I know he has one in his collection. I just pray that its not a kill point mission...

I think the problem with this campaign will be the snowball effect. Depending on the number of players and the setup style (winners go against winners, losers against losers), one or two armies will be totally out of control after two or three games.

The beast pack is a very solid choice (even though yours is illegal, you need another beast master). But I'd rather go with the Baron as an HQ choice to synergize with them. Add a beefed up Farseer (Jetbike, Shard) and you've got a very tough CC unit that will only get stronger as you win games. And it costs the exact same amount of points.

Your Raiders have too many upgrades to be worth their points. They will go down, especially against Tau, because you will need to move them into their gun range to do any damage with your Warriors.

Do not underestimate the power of Venoms at this point value. Forcing saves from up to 36" range is awesome. Especially because you know your first match will be versus Tau. You might want to switch those Raiders to Venoms with 5 Warriors (with or without Blasters).

Heya Mandor - thanks for the response and for clarifying the Beast pack, I hadn't read it correctly before as I thought it said each Beastmaster may be accompanied by 0-5 Khymera, 0-2 Razorwing Flocks etc.

Yeah the campaign setup isn't very healthy in my opinion but it will clear the field and make a decisive victor fairly quickly thats for sure! The issue I have with it is the pressure for you to make a strong list from the start; to me this encourages 'tournament' style lists which can be adapted by winning games rather than a 'campaign' style list. As soon as one player adopts the more competitive approach it forces all of the other players to do likewise

Nevermind though, we can't change that so I'll treat it as a tournament but on a galactic a map haha!

Yeah the Raiders worried me as being easy targets, I was limited by the number of models that I own however I'm sure that I can strive to purchase a couple of venoms in time for the first game The beast unit has only been added as an afterthought; of course I've seen plenty of very competitive lists include these since our 'new' book appeared on the scene however I've never had a shot with the unit myself before.

Heres my amended list (which now looks like a rather tournament standard list!)

Baron Sathonyx: 105

5 Warriors: 45
Venom: 75
Splinter Cannon, Nightshields

5 Warriors: 45
Venom: 75
Splinter Cannon, Nightshields

5 Warriors: 45
Venom: 75
Splinter Cannon, Nightshields

6 Reavers: 156
2 Heat Lances

Beatmaster Monster Pack: 144
2 Beastmasters
10 Khymera

Farseer: 175
Shard of Anaris, Singing Spear, Runes of Witnessing, Jetbike

5 Eldar Rangers: 60

Does this look a little 'too' brutal to be a campaign army?!

Too brutal nah.   Especially because the rules appear to favor brutal lists.  Glass cannon armies like DE don't like that setup if your not "too" brutal pyrrhic victories and attrition will be the death of you.  

As a caveat, ignore all of my suggestions that (1) you don't like and (2) don't fit your own play style.  

Since your no longer running the mantle, consider swapping the 5 rangers with 3 eldar jet bikes plus the Shuriken Can, its one extra point so I hope your not even.  

I love rangers, but at five you can't rely on them for the precision shot and single splinter cannons accomplish the same thing  (i.e., wound on 4+ at 36" range-- lose rending but gain mobility.... also again at 5, rending not too reliable).  (Also, as against DE the infiltrate advantage of looking at the list is a gimmick, they're tau, their guns hurt you and they have too many guns with the ignore cover rule (5 pt upgrade for devil fish, gets a twin-linked, ignore cover, and no need for line of sight multi-shot weapon (well 2 shots)... its kills reavers quickly and effectively....  and your worried about being too brutal).)    

Also, having the two separates bike squads divides the target priority seeing as your anti-tank appears to be the heat lances and a singing spear.  (without razor wings with rending, beasts are not enough threat to vehicles).  Also the Eldar bikes are fast mobile and still scoring scoring and the blade storm on the shruiken weapons preserves the same Ap 2 (if not improve as you have more shots and the basics guns being twin-linked.) the Eldar bikes with the 3+ armor are also not as vulnerable to tau ignore cover weapons and marker light improvements.  

Additionally, assuming you plain to use the venom's at range (i.e., "30+ for the cannons and no blasters for anti-tank so no need to get close) the night shields might be expendable.    (Granted your first opponent is tau and reducing their fire warrior range to 24"  really tends to throw them through loops if they have gotten to comfortable with the 30" range.  Albiet, they are either in their in a devil fish and they'll get out when close enough at range of 24" or they are not going to move forward out of cover to tag venom sitting just beyond their range at 30+).  True anti-tank from tau like the ion accelerator on the riptide and from the hammer head laugh at night shields with ranges like 60 and 72 inches... they're in range.  It's your judgment call based on what you know of that tau player and three night shields is not an insubstantial number of points that can be expended else where.  

Against tau, your list is very vulnerable to a riptide.  You don't have the ap2 necessary to down it.  It would almost be a waste of the beat squad just to tar pit it in close combat.  Consider using 12 of the points from savings on the nightshields and swap our your beast squad to 3 masters 5 Khymera and 4 razor rings, that gives you 20 rending attacks on the charge notwithstanding tau defense grenades that is not tar pitting the riptide, that's killing it and you have the same model count in the squad (and technically substantially more wounds which are not insta killed by the massed tau s5 rapid fire).  For added fun, Fortune combines nicely with the Khymera invul. sv.  

Since you have 3 warriors squad and the eldar troop choice, i.e., four scoring units your list could tolerate ditching one of the warrior squads for a ravager with a flicker field.... i.e., addition ap 2 range and longer range anti-tank.   (also lances insta gib crisis suits.)  Swapping in the ravager will also divide target priorty between the beasts (with razor wings) and the ravager both of which threaten a riptide.  

If you have second thoughts about the farseer, consider Illic... he is sexy.  Shroud, 48" range, sniper, always precision shot, always ap2 and distort-- also mixes well with the standard rangers stealth.  (if your set on taking the rangers).  

As for a prediction For all the reasons you wanted to take the rangers, I would be will to bet money that your opponent will field about a 10 man squad of kroot with sniper rounds.  they have precision shot, infiltrate and stealth (woods -- just about the most common terrain item).  

Again, take it all with a grain of salt... but let me know if i'm right about the kroot.   .

EDIT you mentioned that your are not familiar with tau, so just some pointers if they are playing kroot as predicted, there are not a assault unit just because they better at it than fire warriors, the beasts with the baron (love his PGL) will butcher them outright even if he has a squad of 20 (albiet soften them up first because 20 over watch shots will hit a couple of times).

Tau default BS is 3, so target priority the marker lights with those venom's. Doesn't matter if you down the riptide if they have can make a hammer head ignore cover with its large blast shot or give a crisis suit team ignore cover and higher BS. Also, like DE, tau are dependent on mobility, their transports and suits should be high priority (secondary to marker lights). With strict target priority it is possible to out shoot the tau-- especially because their weakness to assault will force their target priority to the beast squad and reavers. If the reavers have their first pain token, and the tau are in the open they are a great assault option against tau having the higher initiative, a large number of attacks (actual have two CCs, hammer of wraith and double tapping the splinter rifles). HOWEVER, reavers are very weak against tau because of their dependence on the jink and skilled rider cover save. Consider keeping them in reserve but remember that tau have easy access to interceptor so deploy far away and out of range and use turbo boost to move them into position. On the reavers, from a webway i'd use heat lances, from a table edge i'd use blasters-- but that is my play style so i'm not even going to suggest you change. The heat lance is probably my favorite weapon in the dex and in my opinion one of the best weapons in the game (i'd even rate it above the warpblast of the zorenthorpes).

and last and not least... show those jerks who think DE are not playable the real pecking order of things.

Wow, Athalkar, thank you for that reply! I really enjoyed reading all of what you'd said and I think I agree with you on pretty much every point! As for your caveat, thats very noble of you to say so! Frankly however, I've yet to develop a preferred playstyle (it used to be the Webway Portal system but thats virtually unusable now thanks to the non-assault option in the FAQ and theres no point handicapping myself further than needed) so I'm keen to use this campaign as a testing period. The points about glass-cannon and using a 'tourney-style' list in a campaign are justified I think - as you say, this campaign REALLY punishes those who lose games.

The Tau analysis was VERY much appreciated too, frankly I've heard horror stories about them and that they're considered to be contested for the top-ranked codex out right now, but that doesn't mean I can't tear them a new one haha! I'll be re-reading your thoughts before the game dude as I need every advantage I can get to pull through on this one!

Ok, so list-wise, here's my thoughts:

The rangers were included not only for the gimmick of being able to see my opponents list (all armies are closed lists otherwise and judged by the campaign organiser - CO) but to deal with high toughness, high armour units like the riptide. I had originally toyed with the idea of a unit of 10 however trying to include all my toys meant that this had to change and so the unit was chopped down to a minimum unit size. I liked the idea of starting the game on an objective too and pinging off 36" shots. I have ummed and ahhed about whether Eldar jetbikes would make a better choice (the original list was based around 2 Jetbike stars!) but somehow I felt that 5 rangers would be more survivable than 3 jetbikers. Sadly I tend to squeeze every point I can out of an army and so this list fits squarely on the 1000pt mark, however than doesn't mean I couldn't jig things about a bit!

One of the issues here is that Tau are my first opponent but unfortunately the game that is occuring is happening as a result of a Random event: any players not involved in a game are put into a hat and one is drawn randomly and plays a one off game against a non-campaign armylist. My opponent IS in the campaign, but its not his army that I'm fighting - its a generic list that he'll make up. Here's the campaign map:


All of the red lined squares are HQ Armies (they cannot move) any others are Invasion Armies. The other issue (which has a HUGE impact for us DE) is that almost all games will be fought over 48"x48" tables. This means that there will be little place to hide for us and that shorter ranged weaponry becomes more potent.

My army is in the top right and I'm about to attempt a 3-way alliance with the two Eldar armies next to me and then push down towards the Ultramarines and Ravenguard in an attempt to wipe them out. The Iron Hands pose a threat but I've formed an off-the-record truce with them.

Anyway back on point, I need to get through this first game and then I should become allied up (with a little bit of luck at dice rolling!). The point I'm trying to make is that this first game is
a) important
b) but if I win it won't be to detriment of another opponent
c) I can't change my list once its been submitted

Its a weird and annoying conundrum for me because my first game will be against an army that classically DE would struggle against - thus I should try to optimise my list, however I can't focus too much on writing an anti-tau list!

That all being said, I think that the Ravager idea is a very good one as my army is distinctly lacking long range anti-tank firepower. I'm a little concerned that 13 troop models (10 of which are in easy to explode Venoms) will be very little if I drop a Venom and swap Rangers for Jetbikes, however you make good points on this transition. I should also just learn to hide my Warriors on foot rather than keeping them mounted in the Venoms.

The Nightshields will have less of an effect due to the smaller tables so I think that they can go too as you're right, it is a significant points cost and wouldn't be such an issue in larger games but in this size, 10 points can scale up quickly.

I did consider Illic when I was writing the list, but decided that he didn't bring enough to the table that I couldn't find elsewhere, the board controlling and (for us DE) VERY survivable Mantarch offered something unique and obviously competed with the opportunity for us to gain psychic powers such as the very much loved to-hit re-rolls. These 3 options were the only ones worth considering in my list and for a long time I settled on the Mantarch, however the synergy of the Farseer with the Beastpack is too good a chance to give up. I just wish I had more points to bump up the Beastpack with!

Anyway, I've done a list re-write taking into account a lot of what you've said. Here's what I came out with:


Baron Sathonyx: 105

5 Warriors: 45
Venom: 65
Splinter Cannon

5 Warriors: 45
Venom: 65
Splinter Cannon

3 Reavers: 81
Blaster

3 Reavers: 66

Beatmaster Monster Pack: 156
3 Beastmasters
5 Khymera
4 Razorwing Flocks

Ravager: 115
3 Dark Lances
Flickerfield (or should this be a Nightshield?)

Farseer: 135
Singing Spear, Runes of Witnessing, Jetbike

6 Eldar Jetbikes: 122
2 Shurikan Cannons

TOTAL: 1000pts on the nose (again!)

My concerns are again raised over the lack of troops, however I decided to drop the Shard (40pts is a lot for Fearless, I know it'll probably shoot me in the foot at some point but the 3 man jetbike squad just looked too frail) to boost the unit up to 6 and add in the extra Shuri Cannon. I split the Reavers (I hope this won't hurt me in Kill point games!) and changed the Heat Lance for a Blaster as I think you may be correct about the range and arriving from Reserves.

I could drop the Runes of Witnessing for a 2nd Blaster on the other Reaver unit, not sure whether to do that though.

I dropped the Venom and swapped it for a Ravager - I'm not very keen on the Ravager concept (never used one before) but have heard rave things about them so I doubt it'll be points mispent. I dropped the Nightshields and swapped the Beast Pack around thanks to the addition of a 3rd Beastmaster, it now has Rending attacks for AT and AP2 potential. I'd like to bulk this unit out further really but I can't see that happening easily.

The change in Farseer means that he no longer has to remain in the Beasts and can instead rock along lending his Ld 10 to the Jetbikes who suffer from Morale checks on a frequent basis from what I've read. Obviously the Baron will join the Beasts and I hope that his Ld 9 will be enough...

While a lot of the points were specific to tau, many apply in a more general sense, for instance lascannons are 48" ... even with the nightshield if you can shoot it, it can shoot back.  However, i'll leave those comments as is for the time being.

Same caveat.  

Now I have not played a campaign like the one your doing (though while tough looks like its going to be a lot of fun) so I might not have give enough thought to the issue you mentioned:

"once created, your army is 'locked in' - it can only be modified by winning games (rolling on a random chart to see with unit type and how many points you get: 50pts upgrade 1 unit, ) or losing games (your army suffers some crippling results, so winning is critical!)"

Does this mean that if you lose a unit, you cannot buy it back?    (e.g., if you get 50 pts to upgrade fast attack unit, but if one of your reaver squads is eliminated it gone for good and you can't buy it back?  

Also what does "locked in" really mean... if you get an option to upgrade a troops choice does are you allowed to change the transport i.e., venom to raider.  I ask because due to the funky wording in the DE codex, if the squad is larger than the vehicle capacity you cannot take the transport.  I.e., couldn't make the troops choice a 10 man and still legally have the venom.  

Addressing first your specific issues:  

Runes of witnessing.  They are a one use item, ya i get that your rolling a lot of tests but the farseer already starts stock with the ghost helm.  You can bite the bullet and give up a warp charge and avoid the wound.  The points are better spent on the second blaster or even the spirit stone remnant (its kinda gimmicky and situation but on a great day, allows you to use fortune, guide and prescience all in one turn).  This is specially true as the DE might offering you a better/more usfull alternative to Runes of Witnessing (below).... Since your fielding the Barron, any HQ upgrades are going to the farseer and you can purchase it then (assuming I understand the rules correctly).  

-Alternatively, for the same points you can put grisly trophies on all three of your vehicles which creates a re-roll failed LD test bubble around each vehicle.  In addition to providing some support for your morale concerns, it also supports the farseer by increasing the success substantially and giving you a re-roll on half of the all possible perils results rather than a one time thing.  Keeping the farseer near these vehicles is not unreasonable because your going to want to toss guide/prescience on those vehicles.  This is especially true if they field a flyer.  re-rolling those snap shots on the ravager should get a hit, not much but it is something.    

Troops.  the success of your troops here is not based on the number of models, but the fact that you have three.  For the bigger denser armies (e.g., space marines) i wouldn't be surprised if they only had two troops choices.   Your 6 man eldar jet bike squad will be tough for anyone to deal with.  

However, if your really concerned about you could swap out the Reavers for a 9 man hellion squad (which are troops courtesy of the baron) (8 if you want a champ and a special weapon).  Hellions are nice having several shots and are mobile albeit it will become a very hard choice of where to put the baron- My experience with the hellions is that they tend to perform sub-par without the baron joining them but beasts perform phenomenally with the baron.   Along the same lines but accomplishing another objective, take a 10 man warrior team with a splinter cannon.  Deploy them on a objective and you have 6 ignore toughness shots at 36" and if they close to 24" you have 15 PLUS you get 47 points to bulk your beast squad, (most use of points and models 4 bms 9 dogs 3 birds; without weakening the existing rending attacks 4 bms 7 dogs 4 birds (and a 11 point remainder).  

Ravager... don't worry, it will convert you.   If you can only afford one, i'd run it with a flicker field.  While jink as marginalized the flicker field somewhat, it still is your sole source of 36" lances and your opponents have ignore cover (not just tau) wave serpent shield (their your allies now....)  thunderfire cannon, the hell turkey and being hit in close combat.  Flicker field provides an additional advantage of providing protection if you don't go first and can also be used to avoid a immobilized result on dangerous terrain.    

Other issues,

Reavers.  The larger eldar jetbike squad is kinda filing the role the reavers were originally so exchanging them (as noted above) will not hurt your list.  Albeit, They work well in tangent with eldar jetbikes.    

Don't split them.  they are weaker split:  each have to pass a morale after losing one model if a squad loses two, they cannot regroup (unless you roll snake eyes).  As a single unit, only have to role one morale save after losing two bikes and after losing four bikes, can still regroup at normal initiative.

Last but not least, this very forum has some really educational battle reps against tau.  I found the following two very helpful:

First game: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t6148-br21-the-black-buzzards-vs-new-tau-1500pts
The rematch: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t6173-br22-the-black-buzzards-vs-tau-rematch-1500pts

EDIT PS: I'm really sorry about spelling and grammar list building for me out of the DE dex has turned into a stream of consciousness and so it all just flows out.

Athalkar, you should be a Dark Eldar life coach buddy! :DThank you again - your thoughts are really proving constructive here! Stream of consciousness is a good thing dude, my side job is as an english teacher to foreign language students so I'm used to MUCH worse grammar and spelling than you crazy 'yanks' can manage haha!!

Yeah the campaign system is a bit funky - I had to prod with a few questions to the CO (campaign organiser) as it wasn't clear. Its not how I'd do things (as I think its unnecessarily complicated) but hey ho, it can't be changed so best to just grin and bear it.

The premise of it is this:

- 'locked in': when creating your army list, the force organisation chart applies with the following exceptions: your 'invasion list' cannot contain any fortifications. Your 'HQ defence list' must contain at least 2.
Once your army list has been submitted to the CO 1. the force organisation chart no longer applies, 2. there is no minimum unit size and 3. you cannot change any unit configurations as far as deducting equipment or options are concerned; likewise you are limited to the normal codex limits for buying new equipment for any units.
For example, a unit cannot change its dedicated transport (either by 'giving it' to another unit or by 'upgrading it' from one vehicle to another), however the transport may be upgraded if you rolled the 'unit upgrade' victory result.
Using my army as an example I could give one of the Warrior Venoms Nightshields in the future (assuming I'd rolled the 'unit upgrade' from the victory chart) but I couldn't give the Venom to another unit or 'swap' it for a Raider.

- Victory Chart (Roll a D6 if you won your game, x2 D6 if you tabled your opponent, there is no draw, compare Kill Points and then First Blood in event of any ties):
1 Any chosen unit can be upgraded or a new unit purchased (max 75 points)
2   Troops (Max 100points)
3 Fast attack (max 150points)
4 Elite (max 200 points)
5 Heavy Support (max 200 points)
6 HQ (max 200points)

Unspent points on victory rolls can be saved for later. The CO has remained unclear on whether these points MUST still be spent on their associated FOC types (troop etc) or whether it can be saved and spent on anything...

- losing units: if you lose the game roll on the Losers Chart (If you are tabled then you automatically count as rolling a 1!):

1 “Too Many Casualties!” (Roll a D6 for each individual model that died. On the roll of a 1 this casualty is removed from the campaign. (This does not include your lord of war)
2-4 “Loss of morale” (all your models suffer -1 to their leadership)
5-6 “Rally to me brothers!” Your forces rally and the apothecaries do their jobs well, prepare for the next battle for the enemies will be stronger. (No effect)

Pretty harsh, as it causes a big rift to occur between winners and losers, which puts a fair bit of pressure to win your games and can create unnecessary (in my opinion) tension between players. It also means that making your list in the first place is CRUCIAL as it can't easily be changed (only added to).

Ok enough of all that campaign jargon - onto the list building stuff!

I think you're right about the Runes being dropped - his helm should warrant that. I know that the stones can be damned useful but seem a little expensive and situational for games at this points level - you're correct on your assumption that only the farseer could be upgraded! The Grisly Trophies are a good solution although I really see them being the most useful on the Ravager as I expect the Venoms to get gunned down more easily and them being an excess use of points with them. That being said, the Jetseer is going to need a bodyguard which will likely be the eldar jetbikes now that he's not needed in the beasts so much, and the jetbikes aren't going to want to hang around at the back too much if the shurikan catapults + JSJ manouvre can be put to good use. I'll what I can play around with though...!

The warriors dropping their Venom ride in exchange for extra bodies seems like a good one to me. I'd prefer to pop them into a Raider if I could find the points but that might come about from playing with the Reaver squad a little.

The reavers being swapped for Hellions could be a good idea but unfortunately I lack Hellion models currently! The reavers are really there to draw fire and cause havok by being a constant nuisance and threat to contesting enemy objectives (whilst the eldar jetbikes can claim far placed objectives in the late game). Also the unit is really bought with the idea of upgrading it throughout the campaign and pumping it into a deathstar unit of 9 complete with Cluster Caltrops and some Heat Lances so it can pose a threat to almost anything! That being said, they are quite a point sink and I agree on keeping the unit as one - I wasn't sure if splitting it might help to waste enemy firepower on them...

I also like the idea of adding the Beasts unit. I'm going to return to the drawing board for a few minutes and reconstruct the list with these ideas in mind. The game against Tau is tomorrow evening so I have to get everything ready for then   

I feel confident with this however, my opponents will learn to fear the Dark Eldar as we dominate this planet!!

EDIT: Here's the NEW list! I decided that I could drop the Reavers as they weren't proing to be enough of a deal breaker in their current form and that I could always purchase a new unit if I rolled Fast Attack as my Victory Roll.


Baron Sathonyx: 105

10 Warriors: 100
Splinter Cannon

Raider: 70
Splinter Racks

5 Warriors: 60
Blaster
Venom: 75
2 Splinter Cannons, Nightshields

Beatmaster Monster Pack: 228
4 Beastmasters
10 Khymera
4 Razorwing Flocks

Ravager: 120
3 Dark Lances
Flickerfield, Grisly Trophies

Farseer: 120
Singing Spear, Jetbike

6 Eldar Jetbikes: 122
2 Shurikan Cannons


The demise of the Reavers meant I could change my Troops and take the 10 man poison squad in a Raider. I can't decide between Splinter Racks, Flickerfield or Nightshield - they all have pros and cons for that unit, I figured that my opponent would be more concerned with the large Beasts unit running at him than the Raiders...

The Ravager gained the trophies to make up for the lack of Runes on the Farseer and the remaining Venom/Warrior squad gained a Blaster. I upgraded the Venom a bit to try and make it more survivable so it stands a chance of being able to drop off the Warrior squad in the mid/late game on an objective. I feel much more comfortable with 20+ scoring models, the beast unit looks solid now (I was a bit concerned that the dogs will die too quickly) and the Farseer can hang out at the back plinking off psychic powers for as long as possible!

I've left writing the defence list until the last minute (wanted it to be pretty random/funky!), if anyone's keen to have a peek the link is HERE. I'm not happy with it so I'm writing another list with the intention of playing with reserve rolls

Sham about the Reavers, I know what you mean about the the 9 model unit. (Only a 1000 points is hard).

Splinter Racks v. Flickerfield v. Nightshield ... ya tough choices... since your considering the splinter racks i assume you are willing to keep the warriors in the the raider for the majority of the game. Based on this assumption here are you two options (expect a twist   )

1. Flicker field. The raider stays beyond rapid fire range like originally planned for the venom and acts as a vanguard for the ravager helping to protect it from any deep striking/outflanking from ruining your ravager. The Flicker field allows you to not moving the raider and get 6 shots at 36" from the cannon.

Also standard opp for this unit would be to deploy the warriors into cover in the mid-filed and have the raider back off towards your outside ranges at 30+ ... for this I feel that the flicker field offers better coverage for ignoring cover weapons

Also as a prediction note: considering tau (skimmers), DE (skimmers) and two eldar players (skimmers) If people have an easy access ignore cover weapon then they are probably going to take it.

2. Splinter Racks and the Nightshield NO splinter cannon in the squad. The tactic here is to use the unit as a extreme aggressor having lost the 36" range shooting. The explanation: The problem with the the splinter cannon (mind you, its not that big of a problem) is that if the vehicle moves you only get four shots. You must move to trigger jink (no flicker must move). Mathhammer says (assuming you moved) (a) 9 rifles and a splinter cannon shooting at 12-24 will cause 4.333 wounds (b) 10 rifles with splinter racks at 12-24 will cause 4.444 wounds (c) 9 rifles and a splinter cannon shooting at 1-12 will cause 7.334 wounds (d) 10 rifles and splinter racks 8.889. (over watch and snap shooting also better; however, in all cases the warriors will preform better with the cannon if they are not in the vehicle.)

This second option allows you to turn the raider into a decoy unit. The damage being dealt out cannot be ignored and is likely to provoke and an upgrade in target priority which helps to protect your beast squad, eldar jetbikes, ravager and venom (it is out shooting the venom just at a lessor range) finally, like the jetbikes its scoring. Try to get a pain token early to mitigate a vehicle explosion tax. In this role, the night shield will likely better protect you over the course of the campaign by denying extra shots from rapid fire/salvo and denying melta.

Athalkar, thank you my friend - I believe that the campaign Invasion Force is now ready - I couldn't agree more with your 2nd option considerations, furthermore to this, the Ravager deploys in front of the Raider thus granting it the 5+ cover save that would otherwise require a flickerfield to effectively gain.

Invasion Assault Force - Final Version

Baron Sathonyx: 105

10 Warriors: 90

Raider: 80
Splinter Racks and Nightshield

5 Warriors: 60
Blaster
Venom: 75
2 Splinter Cannons, Nightshields

Beatmaster Monster Pack: 228
4 Beastmasters
10 Khymera
4 Razorwing Flocks

Ravager: 120
3 Dark Lances
Flickerfield, Grisly Trophies

Farseer: 120
Singing Spear, Jetbike

6 Eldar Jetbikes: 122
2 Shurikan Cannons

TOTAL: 1500


HQ Defence List - Final Version

Archon: 145
Blaster, Haywire Grenades, Shadowfield, Webway Portal

3 Trueborn: 86
2 Dark Lances

3 Trueborn: 56
2 Splinter Cannons

6 Harlequins: 154
4 with Kisses and a Shadowseer

10 Warriors: 115
Dark Lance

13 Warriors: 127
Splinter Cannon

Autarch: 150
Mantle of the Laughing God
Laser Lance, Fusion Gun, Banshee Mask, Jetbike

6 Rangers: 72

Aegis Defence Line: 70
Communications Relay

6 Rangers: 72

8 Swooping Hawks: 163
Exarch with Sun Rifle & Marksmans Eye

Phoenix Bomber: 225

Skyshield Platform: 75

TOTAL: 1500pts

Ok, sorry for the weeklong wait! The first game I had I succeeded in demolishing the Tau in a game of Big Guns Never Tire 8:1! I do think a that by managing to Steal the Initiative and my rolling generally seeming to be better than my opponents had a part to play in that final score, however that being said there is something to be said for making your own luck (particularly with Dark Eldar).

I also finished up writing the Campaign Defence Force with some suitably weird and kooky unit / fortification combos! Athalkar, I took into account a lot of what you said. I'm going to merge both threads into this one from now on - the final armies I settled on are in the POST ABOVE whilst the ratonale/reasoning for the unit choices in the HQ Defence Force can be found HERE.

So, what the hell happened?!

Well, I think I'll be grouping all the details of what happened to the Kabal of the Vile Rose in a new thread to bring everything together thats going on, this thread will be in the Dark Eldar Discussion forum section and hopefully will mean an end to all the jumping around all over the site!

This general thread with links to everything can be found HERE whilst the Battle Report can be located HERE

So, army-list wise the following things have now been gained:
- 100pts worth of new Troops (no upgrades/changes to existing units)
- 200pts worth of Heavy Support
- one unit can be swapped from either Army to the other.

The new units have no minimum / maximum unit size and the Force Organisation chart no longer exists for either army - thus you can have 6 HQ choices if you roll well enough!

My army list thoughts are listed in the general thread, but seeing as this is the army-list thread I'll reiterate them here too!

Basically the Heavy Support I feel should be spent on decent anti-armoured-infantry (AP 3 and AP 2) as well as Anti Air with the potential for a bit of anti tank. There are really only 3 options that cover these choices from what I can tell: a Razorwing with multi-purpose configuration (Venom Cannon, Dark Lances), War Walkers each with ScatterLaser, Eldar Missile Launchers (one with Flak Missiles) and Holofields (that grants +1 to cover saves) or finally 5 Dark Reapers with Exarch using Extra Shot, 5+ Precision Shots and an Eldar Missile Launcher with Flak Missiles.

I'm leaning towards the Dark Reapers right now because somehow I imagine that they'll be more survivable than a war walker whilst giving more consistent damage output than the jetfighter.

Troops-wise I don't really know what to think: I found during my last game that I was sacrificing the firepower of the jetbikes because I didn't want them getting too close to the enemy whilst the Farseer was hanging out with them. Thus a Farseer-guard unit of 3/4 Jetbiks could be a good option.
With only 100ts the option of taking Dark Eldar troops is very limited due to the lack of points to cover transport costs. A unit of 5 warriors in a Venom with no extra Splinter Cannon could just about be afforded but doesn't bring much to the table.
I like the idea of Dire Avenger's battle focus sheenanigans but don't think they bring much to the army. Rangers could add the element of further long range anti-infantry heavy weapon snipes whilst sitting on an objective (and drawing fire) but I'd need a large-ish unit to justify them.

I'm not really sure what to go for! Any ideas?

Oh and in other news, Sathonyx was killed by Shadowsun in the last game (in combat ) so has to roll on the injury table at the next meeting.

I also won a unit transfer option (because I tabled my opponent), I think I'll be saving this for the moment but I'm strongly considering swapping the Autarch across as he'd draw a lot of firepower to take the heat off the beasts unit. Alternatively I like the idea of the swooping Hawks for their anti-infantry grenades / guns (and the Sunrifle's blind ability!) as well as the option for their haywire grenade unit in combination with their non-scatter deep strike ability.

I don't feel theres a hurry to move them across just yet however, though feel free to correct me on this judgement!

Considering this is the army list forum option.....

(Same Caveat) (What is this that I hear about your alliance already being dissolved... who is the odd man out... and by "about to occur" do you mean that your next campaign fight is going to be against eldar... i reserve the right to change the response below based on any additional information provided.)  

Troops:  Now I would take the rangers.  The ability to look at your opponents list will be important, especially when you go against someones defense list which will fortifications to deal with.  Additionally it adds some long range fire power which supports your beasts and jet bikes without the risk of being on the front line to do it.  Alternatively, infiltrate is always a nice deployment option to have. Finally, with the points available you can field a good sized ranger unit ( 8 ).  [EDIT: No. I  don't want a emoticon there you annoying lifeless collection of computer code.]

DE warriors are not a bad choice (albiet would rank the rangers higher at this point... just don't want you to be put off on them they are the bread and butter of the DE codex)-- With DE warriors you can can use the 75 upgrade option (if you roll it) to actually buy a transport.  Whereas from the Eldar codex it would not be enough for a wave serpent.  

I wouldn't take Dire Avengers for battle focus shenanigans as the jetbikes can do it better (read "battle focus" as  "eldar jetbike" BRB rule).  (i.e., the extra move on the jet bikes compensates perfectly for the shorter range; the assault phase jet bike move is double.  The 4 point costs difference between a dire avenger is a pittance when compared with the the additional advantages had by the bikes: 1 point for +1 toughness, 1 point for +1 improvement to the armor save, 1 point for twin-linked weapons, 1 point for jink and redeployment ability vis-a-vis turbo boost.... dem points are each worth their weight in gold and dem some.  People take dire avengers because they are the cheapest troops choice (points wise) that provides a wave serpent option.  (Oh an for all these same reasons you can't go wrong buying more bikes to free up your existing bike squadron and provide some ablative wounds on the farseer).  

Heavy Support:

Dark Reapers..... would not be my choice due to small unit size making them just as fragile as any of the vehicle options.  (Also, as your probably picking up on, I don't tend to tolerate unit sizes less than 6 on non-suicide units).  Standard weapon for dark reapers is no more anti-tank than the DE disintegrator.  In fact for almost half the points your planning to spend you can get a ravager with disintegrators dishing out more S5 shots at a better ap2 at the same range (well the ravager has to move to get that "48... read as: ravager can move and shoot whereas reapers cannot).  For the same points you can take that ravager, a 5 pt vehicle upgrade of choice and take a single war walker with a missile launcher /w sky fire option and a scatter laser i.e., almost as much anti air as the reapers.  (shruiken cannon and 10pt upgrade on the ravager).  With that latter option, in the same round of shooting, you can direct the anti-infantry at infantry and the anti-air at air.

If your dead set on taking the the reapers, then (a) five reapers no exarch w/ starshot missiles (gives option to fire out a volley of anti-tank...which may be important if you going up against wave serpents in the near future) (b) four reapers w/starshot and  exarch as you had him (small number but 4 supporting s8 shots against a flyer probably better than 10 s5 (which cannot even hurt the nasty 12 armor flyers... damn hell turkey.)  

*Falcon Grav tank.  Normally a rather "meh" option; however, it mostly accomplishes your goals-- the pulse laser, scatter laser and Shruiken cannon collectively add enough shots to be a viable anti-air.  Pulse laser is great for 10-12 armor but can only glance 14.  Albiet thCertainly not the number of ap2 and ap3 shots your were looking for but with the load out above thats ; however, it has the add advantage of having a transport capacity. With the high cost of the wave serpent the falcon can serve as an eldar transport (so you can viable take fire dragons as a stand alone if you roll on the elite chart...)    

*If truly  concerned about anti-air then the voidraven w/ flicker fields are probably the best option with a pair of void lances which pretty much dominate other air... particularly if your farseer gets a guide on it after the flyer comes in from reserves.  You have extra points to take a couple of shatter field  missiles which are always useful for vehicle squadrons (typically lower armor) or is not fielding a bunch of tanks).  Necrotoxin viable option due to nids daemons and eldar wraith units in the campaign.   Don't take a full compliment of missiles as the raven is primarily anti-tank and anti-flyer whereas the missiles are decidedly neither.   (Though please remember previous rants on about small board and no vector strike.) (Important for consideration-- your not able to take the Crimson Hunter (or exarch) on a single fast attack roll!)  

Finally, last and not least-- Fully decked out Cronos engine (ap 3 flammer and ap 3 large blast escorting the beasts and giving pain tokens to itself and the DE warriors in vehicles) and Full squad of Vaul's wrath support battery.  The Difficulty here is choosing between the shadow weaver and and Vibro cannons.  Relieve yourself of concern on the farseer by putting him in the support battery (t7 goodness) guide and vibro cannons proivdes and excellant anti tank platform whereas farseer with the shadow weavers (complete with faux rending from monofilament) re-rolling scatter on barrage attacks that (1) ignore cover and (2) don't need line of sight.  200 points even.  Your not getting your anti-air coverage but ... well... don't get attacked by air.

*Options greatly lessened if you cannot pool left over points.... (albeit with vehicle upgrades can probably spend all the points... crystal targeting and the pulse laser good for at least a couple laughs especially against vindicators not bad against wave serpents were you need multiple hits)