Starting army with 1850 in mind.

So this is not a discussion about points this is more or less a synapses of what my army will look like and function as, since DE is so excellent then i will add on other units as i want to paint and have fun with. Excess is key!!

HQ
Archon (will only include him for points)
2 Haemon (will be with wyches for FNP

Troop

9 Wyches-Raider (Haemon)
9 Wyches-Raider (Haemon)
5 Warriors-Venom
5 Warriors-Venom
5 Warriors-Venom
5 Warriors-Venom

Fast

5 Scourges
5 Scourges
Beastpack (3-4 BM) 2 Fiends, the rest razorwing FTW!!!

Elite

5-Blasterborn 1 lance-venom
5-Blasterborn 1 lance-venom
5-Blasterborn 1 lance-venom
( Possible Incubi archon squad in venom if i want CC in a fun game)

Heavy

Ravager
Ravager

cant decide on a Razorwing or a talos. (I can webway the talos with my haemon once they are in the front lines for a bullet magnet, turn 3 through kind of late dont know i havent played it yet)

The razorwing will just be more lances to think of but with the scourges wyches and ravagers my AT is pretty good

basically the third Heavy slot is something i want for them to have to worry about, however its something that is not detrimental to my win , mind games.

So that's kind of what I've come up with as of now, If i want to get really competitive with them I can run a wraith knight and farseer however i would prefer not to ally but i'm not there yet.

I enjoy the fluffiness behind the idea that my army is sort of a "nobility" army by ditching the reavers and helions and running with scourges and venoms, and all of the "accepted" units.

Clearly the AI comes from the venom spam, I have a really decent amount of AT in the form of the ravagers the Blasterborn the scourges and the wyches, I also have decent tarpit squads such as the wyches, beatmasters, and the talos assuming I can get them to the other army.

This is my initial goal to get and then once this is finished if i truly enjoy the DE as much as I think i will i will start expanding the army as I want to paint, Probably a carnival of pain army next because I love Haemons. Again this isn't a discusion of points I can and have done that myself its really just peoples opinions based on games they have had and your better knowledge. Thanks!

-Its_Rumble

I'd advise taking the razorwing over the talos, even with the webway portal it would be unlikely to make it to combat in time to make a real difference (assuming it actually gets there). Personally i find it far too slow to be useful as anything other than a fire magnet and its a bit expensive for a fire magnet.

The flyer on the other hand would give your army some reliable anti-flyer and a means of quickly providing support to areas you might be needing it, where as the talos would be confined to a relatively small area. The flyer would also be much more in keeping with your highborn Kabal theme, as highborn archons tend to lean more towards speed and fire power than the lumbering monsters of the covens.

Not too sure why you have put a lance in your blaster born, since it will only be snap-shooting each turn unless you're planning on standing still with those venoms. Also you haven't stated where your archon is going, if you're planning on having them hang back it seems like a bit of a waste, unless you're using the duke or some other support HQ.

Hope that's somewhat helpful.

Thats good advice, I think i'll just stick to 4 with blasters or stick a stock 5th in there for fun. if i need points and what not. I will not keep the venoms stationary that's not their intent. speed soeed speed. From what i read beast masters are pretty dirty huh?

Yeah beast masters are good fun and paired with the the Baron they become even better. From what I've seen they tend to be taken as all khymera for the massed numbers and 4+ inv (very useful against ignores cover *cough* Tau *cough*) the baron then gives them assault grenades, hit and run and stealth. It's very satisfying to see the look on your opponents face when a massive wave of beasties smash into his line.

The beast Death Star comes from using Eldar allies I believe, putting the baron at the front and casting fortune on them, for a cheesy rerollible 2+ inv save tanking all the hits on the unit. :/

If you have some spare points I'd also advise getting some special weapons on those scourges, blasters or haywire would be a good choice, depending on what you want them to do.

Oh yea the scourges will be with haywires and blasters. They will deepstrike in to take out key heavy vehicles and whatnot. The Farseer idea is great that's the beaststar that is wrecking tournaments right now with like 70 attacks on the charge and doing split assault or something stupid like that, i love it. Do you suggest having 9 wyches in a raider with haemon? or 5 in a venom? I'm thinking i would want a larger wych unit not only for tank busting but for being able to reliably tar pit units. And with a heamon and liquifier it seems to be much more effective than just 5 in a venom. Do i really need 9 as opposed to the 7 i plan on having? im leaning towards the 7, plus wyches are awesome. Maybe with 7thed coming out they will fix CC and then i can start getting incubi and such and more wyches, but untill then WARRIOR SPAM!!!

I'm not rly sure where the wyches are concerned tbh. I have such an obsession with DLs that it covers my AT and is enough to make my mates afraid for their marine squads xD I believe wyches are usually taken in 5 man suicide squads just to allow people to take as many venoms as possible :/

Personally I would base the their squad size on who you're playing against, so large squads to tie up MC or termy squads. I would prefer to see less venom spam in everybody's lists but there us no real denying how effective they are. That said it would be nice if there was some more variety...

Yeah here's hoping melee is viable again soon, I've had to start making terrain to allow units to move around without being shot at, though my tau opponent complains whenever there is any line of sight blocking for some reason xD

Well the venom spam covers two fronts mainly. I play in a very competitive group, and DE don't play fair. And also i really like the Nobility notion of Venoms and Kabalite warriors it's fluffy. I tend to have a general theme among my army as having a Royal Guard, like my Tau is based around Shadowsun's royal guard. Although DE is kind of different I like the idea of having a Elite army running around, plus the venoms are easier to hide. So you think i should just cover 9 venoms and then pick up raiders if i see fit? would the beastmaster be enough of a tarpit?

If its that competitive in your area I would recommend going for the venoms, though I personally don't use venoms at all.

If you're going for a tarpit I would switch them out for mass khymera, only take the fiends if your looking for a t5 majority otherwise they will be killed easily since the opponent will be wounding against toughness 3, the khymera also have the best save and it's an inv so you can tie up those MC and heavy hitting power weapons. The rending is nice but they are more easily killed and the khymera canbe taken in larger numbers and thus can make it a more effective tar-pit.

That's actually a very good point, plus you can take 0-5 per BM and they have base 3 attacks with s4. Do you run BM? and if so how do you utilize them? I have so far 2 ravagers a archon and Haemonculi. I plan on getting 9 venoms filling them with warriors and trueborn and then Scourges to DS as seen fit. also add in that razorwing. A buddy of mine is buying my SM army from along time ago and I will flip that for the majority of the army at that point in the next two months. Should I run two beast packs and one scourge? I dont have any games yet and I would probably run a beaststar in tournaments, that or possibly baronbomb. I dont know yet so many options, I love it.

I will more than likely be running baron with the beasts and i dont know what for the other HQ possibly 3 haemons with the truborn.

I have only run it a few times, the most recent being in a 500pt last man standing game with six players. I managed to get a turn 2 assault and worked my way quickly through one dark angel players army whilst taking relativily low casualties. I was running the baron, 4 BM and 20 khymera.

Tactically I just rush from cover to cover keep out so LoS as much a possible and hit where they can tie up some of their best shooting units. Multi assaulting as much as possible since long combats are very good due to the ability to hit and run after combat in the enemies turn.

I'd keep it to one large beast pack, taking two just causes a bit too much clutter in my opinion and aren't really that nessesary, the scourges would also provide a bit more versatility tbh.

Yea that's how I would run it. However that's an absurdly expensive unit. Were talking 200+ before discounts. Are there any other similar units that look like hounds that I can buy for cheaper? That's about 200 just for the khymaera. Not including the beast masters.

Yeah I just use converted hellions for the beastmasters, GW are barking mad if they think I'm paying full price for those finecast or not. I've been looking around a fair bit trying to find something for khymera, the vampire count dire hounds look quite good, in a fleshy decaying way. They might need a bitmof converting but are much better value for money 10 for £15.50, over here at least. But I'll let you know if I find anything better.

I think thats actually what i am going to do, because you are right they are crazy if they think that Im paying that type of money for their crap finecast. If it was affordable and they sold them like normal troops and units i would bite the bullet but 20 for a BM and then the absurd amount for the beasts? ha no. Yea those dire wolves look pretty good you can easily convert them. Its too bad because the Kyhmaera are actually pretty nice looking models, it's a plus that you actually get two of them in a box. I should have enough bits at the end of building everything that i can convert them pretty well. Those Vargheists would make really good clawed fiends also. I was also thinking those bats could be the birds. I would really like to have baron with a slot of them.

I think im going to go with these guys though.


Warriors of chaos warhounds, they have those tentacle things and they look surprisingly great. Oh and with these and helions I WONT HAVE TO WORK WITH FINECAST!!!! just need to get some green stuff and make conversions it will look great.

Yeah as with most things from GW the Khymera are very good looking and the quality is very good but the price is frankly obscene. I'll look forward to seeing some pictures of yours when you finish them.