7th edition Jink rule and why it's awesome!

So one of the 7th edition changes that really jumped out at me (when i was browsing the new rule book), was the change to jink, and how it's a real boon to our vehicles.

You now declare whether a vehicle is jinking in the enemy shooting phase, before to hit dice are rolled, it grants you 4+ cover, and means your vehicle can only fire snapshots next turn.

Meaning even if we go second we can now benefit from 4+ cover without depending on terrain (combined with night fight for 2-3+). The optional nature of jink also means if we get shot at by cover ignoring weapons, we can just opt to not jink (meaning on the off chance the vehicle survives it won't have to snapfire).

With the new vehicle damage chart and our transports only explode on a 6 (rather than 5-6). All in all making our vehicles a little bit more survivable.

Unfortunately the passengers still take S4 hits when vehicles explode.

So far things are not looking too bad for us in 7th. Thoughts?

There's an ongoing thread here where we're discussing the impact of 7e.

The only downside for me really is that Flickerfield is now almost mandatory... but in a world of Tau and Eldar it already was (for me) so the new jinx just gives me more option and may help my incubi/Grotestques/Wyches transport to survive when I turboboost them all in my opponents face.

I can see the new Jink certainly benefiting those scenarios where you go second, but intended to do nothing but flat out in enemy's face in the first turn anyway. Otherwise, I guess it gives more value back to Flickerfield again, which I always took anyway - in my opinion, it's far better to phase out of reality for that one shot rather than just move a bit faster and hope the enemy has a bad aim.

Mushkilla wrote:

You now declare whether a vehicle is jinking in the enemy shooting phase, before to hit dice are rolled, it grants you 4+ cover, and means your vehicle can only fire snapshots next turn.

Are jetbikes included? Or is it just a vehicle rule?

Zenotaph wrote:

Mushkilla wrote:

You now declare whether a vehicle is jinking in the enemy shooting phase, before to hit dice are rolled, it grants you 4+ cover, and means your vehicle can only fire snapshots next turn.

Are jetbikes included? Or is it just a vehicle rule?

Yeah. Jetbikes are here too.

Do we know if the Flat Out cover save is a Jink save?

There is no flat-out coversave any more, just jink, regardless of movement speed. See the other thread for more info.

Mushkilla wrote:

Meaning even if we go second we can now benefit from 4+ cover without depending on terrain (combined with night fight for 2-3+).

Night fighting only gives Stealth now, so it will only ever be 3+.

Barking Agatha wrote:

Mushkilla wrote:

Meaning even if we go second we can now benefit from 4+ cover without depending on terrain (combined with night fight for 2-3+).

Night fighting only gives Stealth now, so it will only ever be 3+.

Good catch. Still I feel 4+ jink on turn 1 will help our assault troops.

Mushkilla wrote:

Good catch. Still I feel 4+ jink on turn 1 will help our assault troops.

Are you kidding? There's a very good chance now that wyches can ride on a raider and not necessarily die. Even if the raider gets shot down, most of the time they can just get off. They're still in a lot of trouble, but as a step forward it's great!

Barking Agatha wrote:

Are you kidding? There's a very good chance now that wyches can ride on a raider and not necessarily die. Even if the raider gets shot down, most of the time they can just get off. They're still in a lot of trouble, but as a step forward it's great!

Yeah overall I think the vehicle changes give us a much better chance of getting to the enemy in one piece. Sure we might only be able to snap shot, but that's not the end of the world for a lot our assault troops. Still assault doesn't pull any punches, and didn't get any easier.

Another interesting thing is that units that have gone to ground can't fire overwatch. Where are our terrorfexes?

EDIT: definitely a buff to coven units as it's a lot harder for them to lose their mobility turn 1.

So for vehicles it's technically better than going flat-out for us in 6th, as we get to snap-shot on top of the 4+ save.

But for jetbikes, I'm curious how you feel about it Mush?
I see it as potentially a non-issue, even though it feels like a nerf. We'll have to wait and see what skilled-rider gives.
But if you're moving your 36" turbo-boost to do a bladevane, odds are (hopefully) decent you can end up out of LoS or at least out of range of most of the scary. So Jink will be less of a "need". But if you're hoping to get in and use those blasters/heat lances next turn, then suddenly you're a lot more exposed, and FORCED to choose between defensive action now or hoping to survive for offensive action later.

Laughingcarp wrote:

But for jetbikes, I'm curious how you feel about it Mush?
I see it as potentially a non-issue, even though it feels like a nerf. We'll have to wait and see what skilled-rider gives.

Skilled rider gives you +1 to jink and ignore dangerous terrain. So reavers have 3+ jink.

Laughingcarp wrote:

But if you're moving your 36" turbo-boost to do a bladevane, odds are (hopefully) decent you can end up out of LoS or at least out of range of most of the scary. So Jink will be less of a "need". But if you're hoping to get in and use those blasters/heat lances next turn, then suddenly you're a lot more exposed, and FORCED to choose between defensive action now or hoping to survive for offensive action later.

Yeah I would go as far as saying I wouldn't bother with heatlances/blasters. Your main damage will be from bladevaning and assault. Are reavers worse than before? No not really. Going after vehicles was always the riskiest thing to do with reavers as often it could leave you exposed. Vehicles also got tougher, and reavers relied on getting pens to kill. In that regard the change to jink is a real edge, being able to start on the table, go second and be able to benefit from a 3+ cover save (2+ with night fight) is massive both tactically and strategically. Being able to get a 3+ against overwatch (if you can use jink against overwatch), or on a turn where you finish combat on your turn is also great.

Then there's one of the more interesting buffs, is reavers can score, and deny (although they can't deny objects from troops). Making them now one of our most mobile and durable scoring units. Their mobility and survivability is going to make them fantastic in the new missions (which are all about being mobile).

In short i'll be saving 45 points by not buying blasters. I'll still run 9 with a champion, and probably experiment with grav talons/caltrops.

Another huge boost to reavers, is that battle brothers now benefit from reserve manipulation of allies, so autarchs are going to be awesome for manipulating reserves (they will also add punch to the reavers in assault).

Yeah things are looking awesome.

So no bonus to moving Flat Out but can still snap fire isn't too bad, just means my gunboat warriors will now be swapped for Wracks and Grotesques as I still want to do max damage on T2. All comes down to list building and practice now.

I do like the part about going to ground cannot overwatch. Another advantage if a T2 assault raid and maybe our pinning weapons becomes a little more useful.....Mandrakes anyone. Also TGL w/ Aethers on our Raiders could be useful too

I'm going to experiment with Webway portal. With the no more than 50% in reserve rule gone, the WWP may be the tool we need to get some of our AT in range to deal with those mechanical gunlines.

Any word if assault from reserve is allowed?

There is word, 1++, and that word is No =(
But again take that with a grain of salt, release day isn't quite upon us yet.

And Mush, fair enough.
Though are you certain Skilled Rider isn't going to change?

I really want to put d-scythe Wraith Guard into a raider and turbo boost it into someone's deployment zone just to see the look on their face...  the jink rule and new damage chart made the raider better but templates hitting all embarked units hurts big time..

EDIT: Someone told me if you turbo boost you get +1 to your jink save.. any idea if this is true?

last edition. Not true this one.

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

I really want to put d-scythe Wraith Guard into a raider and turbo boost it into someone's deployment zone just to see the look on their face...  the jink rule and new damage chart made the raider better but templates hitting all embarked units hurts big time..

EDIT: Someone told me if you turbo boost you get +1 to your jink save.. any idea if this is true?

Sounds not bad, but u have to rely on a flickrefield then. Cuz if u jink - passangers will snap shot too

You might wanna consider Grisly Trophies on a Raiders now, more wrecks and new rules will force lot more ld checks.

I think there's an issue here which actually makes me think that 7th ed. Jink is terrible. It means that people can threaten us out of action, as a splinter-raider/ravager has to jink even before it gets hit.

As an example: IG heavy weapons team moves up to get a firing lane, and snap-fires with 3 lascannons at a splinter-raider. Only a small chance they hit, but if they do and we declare not to jink, chances are the raider is going down in a fireball. If it's a risk we cannot afford to take, we jink, and the gunboat is effectively useless for a turn.

It's more useful on -empty- transports, which can still score. But I can see it being used against skimmer armies quite heavily.

Buy flickerfields.

I am a huge fan of jink. I think its a great way to keep the vehicles alive longer to score later in the game. MSU is back in force and we've got what it takes. Reavers will be great at soaking up hits on a turn 1 night fight, use them as bait. Raiders not getting alpha striked as easily, or even better being able to get a save is siezed on... Or even against D weapons that don't roll a 6.