7th edition Jink rule and why it's awesome!

The option to jink on turn 1, before they move, is solid gold. Especially for Raiders with wyches, Incubi or other assault troops.

Jinking reavers are still pretty cool. I love my cluster caltrops!

Also worth noting that fast skimmers aren't wrecked if they're immobilised while moving flat out anymore, which is an added bonus.

Now we just need to find some pinning weapons to actually make it into assault... Mandrakes?

Creeping Darkness wrote:

Now we just need to find some pinning weapons to actually make it into assault... Mandrakes?

Wave serpents and "Hemlock"  

Creeping Darkness wrote:

Now we just need to find some pinning weapons to actually make it into assault... Mandrakes?

Not necessarily, you just need to give your opponent an incentive to go to ground. I get the impression that dissintegrators would be quite good at this (being AP2).

That being said I feel like dark lances have gone the way of the dodo, they were already pretty unreliable, but now they only explode vehicles on a 6! Haywire on the other hand is as strong as ever!

Well, that's good. I used Haywire Blasters wherever I could anyway!

Cavash wrote:

Well, that's good. I used Haywire Blasters wherever I could anyway!

Pity there aren't more platforms but still I'm usually not having trouble with getting Wyche squads to where they need to be

Dunno about that, Mush... Dark Lances still have their place, as all the damage results impact the vehicles effectiveness for that turn. Though I do still want more haywire scourges...

And Count, that's exactly what I was planning on doing! Flickerfields all the way

Darklances have their place for first turn supremacy. I love Haywire as much as the next guy but I can't have a a 60" threat range on 3 Haywire grenades for ~100 points like I can a Ravager.

Can you styill throw grenades in cc? How many?

Azdrubael wrote:

Can you styill throw grenades in cc? How many?

You assault with grenades, foregoing your usual attacks. 1 grenade per model wielding them.

As already stated jink gives us turn 1 4++ when going second, something we have never had before. After turn 1 terrain provides plenty of cover. I usually have a terrain provided cover save in addition to jink so this change affects me little tbh, only increasing my skimmers survivability.
If you play without much LoS blocking terrain however you can always buy flickerfields, something most other armies dont have the option of.
Jink is better and worse but overall I say its better. Reason is we have to look at the impact of the rules change across the spectrum, i.e. how it affects bikes, FMCs, flyers, and skimmers of every other army. We have the best options of nearly anyone to allow us to make the jink decision.. night shields and flickerfields. So far ive been playing 7th without either but I may change my approach as time goes on.

On dark light I am of the opinion its actually become better, although our access to such weaponry hasnt improved. Reason I say this is because of the rise of things like fortifications and the increase in mechanized infantry armies in 7th. Haywire is also better due to the same units/strategies and we have that in spades but I also face the aformentioned units in nearly every game I play and capping av13-14 spam at av12 with ap 2 is very welcome. And again we have to look at the impact of the new damage chart across the spectrum to see our place in the overall scheme of things I believe.

Im expecting to see more CCB powered crons to further increase the av13 saturation since their chariots are now a premier assault/harrassment unit and id like to pierce their 2+ armour and have a shot at destroying the thing before it gets up close.
Imperial knights are a thing and while I feel haywire is the best method I really really prefer to kill them at range or at worst finish off the last couple HPs with haywire instead of gambling against all 6 HPs.
And then as I already stated forts are huge now. IDK about you guys but I always for bunkers, void shield networks, bastions etc. All of these are an absolute bitch to bring down without lances and pure suicide to send units like wyches in to deal with since they are all usually tooled up as a firebase.

We also want to be exploding peoples armour whenever possible btw especially with transports having randomized damage now and dark lances are pretty much the only way for us to do that, at least as a pure DE force goes.

Panic_Puppet wrote:

Only a small chance they hit, but if they do and we declare not to jink, chances are the raider is going down in a fireball.

The chance is minimal. It explodes on a 7. Lascannon has AP2, so the opponent has to roll a 6 twice.

Zenotaph wrote:

The chance is minimal. It explodes on a 7. Lascannon has AP2, so the opponent has to roll a 6 twice.

A 6 and then a 5, as opened top adds +1 to the result.

Mushkilla wrote:

Not necessarily, you just need to give your opponent an incentive to go to ground. I get the impression that dissintegrators would be quite good at this (being AP2).

Absolutely true, and I've been considering running a triple-dissie Ravager up the flank with my Wyches for this exact purpose. Although I guess it would need flickerfields, since it wouldn't want to Jink.

Brom wrote:

And then as I already stated forts are huge now. IDK about you guys but I always for bunkers, void shield networks, bastions etc. All of these are an absolute bitch to bring down without lances and pure suicide to send units like wyches in to deal with since they are all usually tooled up as a firebase.

On the bright side, buildings have hull points now. So dark lances can happily chip away at them, and haywire blasters will level them in short order!

Brom wrote:

We also want to be exploding peoples armour whenever possible btw especially with transports having randomized damage now and dark lances are pretty much the only way for us to do that, at least as a pure DE force goes.

Heat lances might give you better odds at explosions, but then another way of looking at the new damage chart is that haywire is now guaranteed not to explode most transports - meaning first that the chance of blocking all access points for the emergency disembark or can't escape kill is higher, and secondly, that against non transports the Wyches will have a nice wreck to hide behind.

I know that haywire exploding vehicles was always a long shot, but for some reason it often seemed to happen to me, invariably sealing the doom of the Wyches who made it happen...

I've been running 2 reapers as of late instead of ravages. The d3 heywire hits is pretty decent especially now they can hit buildings. The big down side is you need a 3+ to hit in the first place. But towards the end of the last edition I run as much heywire as I could. At least my wyches won't die to explosions now they are ap- the downside is neither will any passengers embarked

Count Adhemar wrote:

Buy flickerfields.

EXACTLY

at first I was worried about the change.  now I think it is awesome.   In 5th ed. I bought flickerfields a reasonable amount of the time anyway.  

All this changes is making my ravagers cost 10 points more.   Not a huge deal.  (not great mind you, but not a huge deal).

The ability to get a 4+ save when turbo-boosting my wyches up the field is really helpful.

Interesting, just got my rulebook and reading over jink and to me, the unit inside the transport gain Jink, or more appropriately, the 4+ cover save too. So when the tank blows up, the guys inside can use Jink to save against the blast, and all other shooting attacks.

FAQ, where are you?

Removed chat/leet speak and replaced with English. Please use the English language to the best of your ability. Chat/leet speak is not allowed. Cheers - Cavash.

There is no logic in that. I get a cover save from my vehicle, when the exact same vehicle explodes?

I couldnt find anything in the rulebook about embarked units shooting only snap shots when their raider/venom takes Jink. Did I missed something or is it possible to have Farsser on jetbike with mantle of laughing god and Shrouding psychic power giving shrouded to all venoms and raiders around him when they jink giving them 2+ cover while the passangers can shoot normally?

Poziom wrote:

I couldnt find anything in the rulebook about embarked units shooting only snap shots when their raider/venom takes Jink. Did I missed something or is it possible to have Farsser on jetbike with mantle of laughing god and Shrouding psychic power giving shrouded to all venoms and raiders around him when they jink giving them 2+ cover while the passangers can shoot normally?

Could work... but not sure about passangers.

1++ wrote:

Interesting, just got my rulebook and reading over jink and to me, the unit inside the transport gain Jink, or more appropriately, the 4+ cover save too.

Neither of those is true. Units inside do not gain Jink, and only models that have Jink gain the 4+ cover save.

Poziom wrote:

I couldnt find anything in the rulebook about embarked units shooting only snap shots when their raider/venom takes Jink. Did I missed something or is it possible to have Farsser on jetbike with mantle of laughing god and Shrouding psychic power giving shrouded to all venoms and raiders around him when they jink giving them 2+ cover while the passangers can shoot normally?

There is nothing anywhere that says that Jinking affects the passengers. And why would it? You certainly could do that, why not? Ignores Cover will still not care, though, and also it's kind of sad that you need a 'real' eldar ally to do it.

I played mech-spam last night for my first game of 7th. I would like to apologise and recant my previous opinions on 'Jink' from earlier in the thread. It's awesome for raiders - super-scoring, 50% chance to shrug off damage results, less likely to explode, and nothing to stop it zooming 30" away. Trade-off: you snap-fire a lance (meh), passengers snap-fire which is easily mitigated by putting in a combat unit, or splinter racks. Love it. Still would prefer flickerfields on Ravagers though, but Jink on raiders is actually a really, really good thing.

No where does it say jink makes the passengers snapfire. Enjoy!

 

...I'm going to be -really- unpopular next week...

Panic_Puppet wrote:

 

...I'm going to be -really- unpopular next week...

Even better crew stunned and shaken don't automatically force passengers to fire snapshots. Although crew stunned, weapon destroyed, crew shaken, and immobilised do force a leadership test that if failed forces the passengers to fire snapshots.

As a result a sybarite is a worthy investment for LD9. But basically it means nothing but a explodes result will reduce the firepower of the warriors inside a raider. Pretty awesome.

Jink changes also mean we don't have to move to get a 4+ cover save. Meaning the passengers don't count as moving and can fire splinter cannons on heavy mode.

Raiders are awesome this edition.

Better just grisly trophies.