Inviting a mon-keigh assassin

Greetings, Archons/Succubi/Haemonculi

Although I respect warlords who pursue a pure DE-blood army, I like to test a potential of various allied armies with Craftworld kin, villainous Slaanesh, uncivilized Tau, and mon-keighs. And today, I'm considering inviting a mon-keigh assassin for our convenience.

The motivation of the idea is the new Dataslate - Officio Assassinorum released very recently.  According to my colleague who has read up the dataslate, the assassins were good in the past and are even better now.

I'm gonna avoid writing the specific rules here, but for one example, the shieldbreaker ignores ALL INVULN SAVES now (this is terrible for us btw, as it can crush our Shadowfield). He also told that Culexus Assassin is now a BRUTAL PSYKER KILLER thanks to the significant changes in its rule.

Above all, they're assassin who hides in backyard till the end of the game in most cases. So I think they are relatively free from the limitation of Desperate Allies - our DE troops are not gonna meet them during the game anyway. They can make up for our weak parts (anti-vehicle, anti-character, or even anti-psyker now), and besides, LOOK COOL!   

I've ordered the e-book version of dataslate and gonna buy a model for the test soon - I may make a batrep in a few months. Before that, any thought? Pros or cons?

I've heard that Assassins now have super duper(er) rules.

Vindicare might be the best bet, sit him in a tower and let him pop characters and tanks all day long - don't expect him to have an impact every turn but he should add something to your force.

He'd be easy to visrep too/make up a story for - lone Trueborn with experimental Hexrifle etc.

I'm considering a cullexis or a vindicare depending on what our new book looks like. I remember reading somewhere around here (sorry I don't remember who or I would give you credit) the idea to model a vindicare as a dark eldar bounty hunter. Really great idea in my opinion.

I used a calidus today in my list for an event, the plan was to win the roll off for first turn but give it to my opponent. Allowing me to counter deploy for when i stole the initiative because i brought Vect and had the calidus reroll. It served its purpose and i stole init every game and even contributed to killing with the AP 2 flame and melee weapon. Twice i ended up getting the -1 reserve roll warlord trait for they also autofailed their first reserve roll of the game

Im keen to include a DE bounty hunter too!

The Vindicare looks cool but sitting back and taking pot shots seems like an inefficient use of points and is just not my style. I want something that is in my opponents face ripping it up, drawing attention and messing with his plans.

Eversor was my next choice and is a combat beast vs hordes or anything not 2+ but I have splinter and beasts. I don't need help vs infantry.

So its down to Calidus or Culexus. Both have excellent abilities. If your regularly having trouble with psychers then the choice is clear. For me the Calidus' super infiltrate, hit and run, AP2 template and CC attacks, rerolling seize and messing with a reserve roll make her the best all-rounder.

I cannot wait to see the havoc she will reap in my opponents backfield!

Culexus looks very nasty and if you're playing against GK, Daemons, Seer Council or a Cent-star then they could be in real trouble!

Thanks for the feedback, all.

Now I've read through the dataslate and decided to order some assassins: Vindicare for sure, Calidus/Culexus under consideration.

Hope to write a batrep with them soon.

It was actually I who said the words "dark eldar bounty hunter" and it's cool to see people liked it. Looking over the rules for the new assassins I think culexus/calidus could be a great use for those lady malys conversations that are likely to be made obsolete with our new release. Don't shelve them. Just repurpose them as an untrustworthy agent of Vect.

That said the only one I won't use will be eversor because, ad started by painjunky, shedding infantry is not our problem lol

The vindicare is terrible - he can't allocate hits...

Massaen wrote:

The vindicare is terrible - he can't allocate hits...

Erm, yes he can.

Deadshot: All successful To Hit rolls made by a Vindicare Assassin, excluding Snap Shots, have the Precision Shots special rule.

A callidus would be great. It's a great chess piece in psychological warfare, making you're opponent trip up and make mistakes all because I have a model that could could appear out of no where, and lay waste to one of their units.

Plus it works fluff wise, as RedKing said Dark Eldar can always hire bounty hunters, or in the Callidus's case an exceptionally skilled wych or Succubi.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Massaen wrote:

The vindicare is terrible - he can't allocate hits...

Erm, yes he can.

Deadshot: All successful To Hit rolls made by a Vindicare Assassin, excluding Snap Shots, have the Precision Shots special rule.

Yep, and that rule tells us he needs a hit roll of 6 for a precision shot

What. I mean I can see where you're filling in the blanks but I strongly suspect the count has a copy of the rules and it just doesn't say what you're reading.

I have the enhanced version for ipad and it says what he says... But precision shots special rule (both in the rule book and referenced in the codex) tell us that you need a 6 to hit to get a precision shot

Hmm by that wording that sounds correct. Correct me if I'm wrong but don't snipers (or in this particular case eldar rangers) all have the precision shot rule?

The sniper special rule does indeed grant the precision shots special rule

Yes, the rule seems bit odd, but no, I don't agree with Massaen.

Deadshot special rule would be meaningless if Vindicare Assassin made a precision shot only on To Hit roll of 6. As The Red King indicated, that ability is already validated by his Sniper special rule. Why does he need Deadshot rule in this case? It makes no sense at all.

It seems thus reasonable to understand that Vindicare Assassin can freely allocate every wound he inflicts by Deadshot special rule.

Plus the codex says "All successful To Hit rolls", not just 6's. Precisions Shots are in fact what happens after most models roll a 6 or a Vindicare rolls a successful hit.

Quote :

If a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit with a shooting weapon, that shot is a ‘Precision Shot’.

The rule then goes on to say what a Precision Shot does. Normally it requires a 6 to become a Precision Shot but, in the case of the Vindicare, any successful To Hit roll activates the rule.

I think that the count is right about how the vindicare's rule.

The assassins seem like a good opportunity to use some models as stand that have been sitting on a shelf. A mandrake or harlequin (solitaire) as a callidus (both would also work as an eversor), maybe use a sslyth as an eversor, a medusae as a culexus, and that eldar sniper character's model as a vindicare. They are all good models whose rules or requirements make them hard to justify. It's mostly easy to justify that they wouldn't be very trusted which accounts for the poor ally rules.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Plus the codex says "All successful To Hit rolls", not just 6's. Precisions Shots are in fact what happens after most models roll a 6 or a Vindicare rolls a successful hit.

Quote :

If a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit with a shooting weapon, that shot is a ‘Precision Shot’.

The rule then goes on to say what a Precision Shot does. Normally it requires a 6 to become a Precision Shot but, in the case of the Vindicare, any successful To Hit roll activates the rule.

RAI I Agee but right now, he gains the precision shots special rule which tells us that on a 6 to hit it becomes a precision shot and you can allocate the hit. You have no RAW argument to make - the interactive codex even shows you this rule when you click on dead shot!

Massaen wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

Plus the codex says "All successful To Hit rolls", not just 6's. Precisions Shots are in fact what happens after most models roll a 6 or a Vindicare rolls a successful hit.

Quote :

If a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit with a shooting weapon, that shot is a ‘Precision Shot’.

The rule then goes on to say what a Precision Shot does. Normally it requires a 6 to become a Precision Shot but, in the case of the Vindicare, any successful To Hit roll activates the rule.

RAI I Agee but right now, he gains the precision shots special rule which tells us that on a 6 to hit it becomes a precision shot and you can allocate the hit. You have no RAW argument to make - the interactive codex even shows you this rule when you click on dead shot!

I've already made the RAW argument. I'll go over it again. Here's the full rule for PS.

Quote :

If a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit with a shooting weapon, that shot is a ‘Precision Shot’.

Wounds from Precision Shots are allocated against a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, as long as it is in range and line of sight of the firer, rather than following the normal rules for Wound allocation. A character that has a Precision Shot Wound allocated to it can still make a Look Out, Sir roll.

Note that Snap Shots and shots from weapons that scatter, or do not roll To Hit, can never be Precision Shots.

Firstly, note that the first sentence applies to models with this special rule. Does the Vindicare have this special rule? No he does not. So we must ignore the first sentence which, in any event, is only describing how a PS is normally achieved. It is the second paragraph that tells us what a PS actually is.

Referring back to the Vindicare we see he has the following special rule:

Quote :

Deadshot: All successful To Hit rolls made by a Vindicare Assassin, excluding Snap Shots, have the Precision Shots special rule.

So any successful hit from a Vindicare is a PS and therefore follows the rules described for them in the second paragraph. Deadshot bypasses the first paragraph completely as we already have a rule specific to the Vindicare that tells us when a shot is a PS.

RAW and RAI both align here to allow the Vindicare to allocate all wounds from any successful hit roll.

I disagree. We are told his hits have the precision shotS special rule. When you roll a hit you get a precision shot. Shot and shotS are 2 different things. At no point are we told all his hits inflict a precision shot. We are told he gains the rule, not the effect

Massaen wrote:

I disagree. We are told his hits have the precision shotS special rule. When you roll a hit you get a precision shot. Shot and shotS are 2 different things. At no point are we told all his hits inflict a precision shot. We are told he gains the rule, not the effect

Sorry that makes no sense at all. Shots is simply the plural of shot. Trying to pervert the rule based on pluralisation simply doesn't wash. If you want to play that all of the Vindicare's successful To Hit rolls are Precision Shots (other than the 83% that aren't) then go ahead, but don't expect too many people to agree with you.

Shrug, what ever. The interactive copy supports this line of reasoning as I have supplied. Agree to disagree.

Even if you think that an absolutely literal interpretation means you have to observe the first sentence of Precision Shots (which I disagree with) then you have to get around the fact that the model (Vindicare Assassin) does not actually have this special rule at all. He has Deadeye which grants "all successful To Hit rolls" the rule. "All successful To Hit rolls" are not models and therefore don't benefit from the rule at all.