Where to start...?

Hi everyone, I've been a tyranid player for a few years and recently picked up the dark eldar dex after finally taking a good, long look at their models and noticing just how awesome they look. (Especially that sexy bomber)

I've spent a lot of time thinking over how to build an army list, but my main issue is that I have no clue as to going about starting the army itself, aka which units are best in very small point games that remain useful later. Any suggestions?

As a side note, which HQ choice do I go with? It seems no matter the option, they simply don't want to fit with the other units in my list, mostly because venoms cant fit an IC, units that take raiders lose some benefits if you take less than 10 in the one unit, and footslogging seems like a bad idea.

In terms of HQ choices, 4 grotesques in a raider with a succubus is a pretty good place to start. Work on the concept that there's a stabby hq (the succubus), an all-rounder hq (the archon) and a buffer hq (the haemonculus) and figure where you want to go from there.

Cyaneye wrote:

I've spent a lot of time thinking over how to build an army list, but my main issue is that I have no clue as to going about starting the army itself, aka which units are best in very small point games that remain useful later. Any suggestions?

You need troops, and in the new Codex there is one good option and one meh option. Buy Kabalite Warriors.
And Dark Eldar troops need transports. Venoms are great for filling the enemy with poison, but have no anti-tank option. Raiders have more transport capacity, and can bring one non-poison weapon. Personally, to start, I would buy one box of Warriors and 2 Venoms. This allows you to field your 2 manadatory troop units and gives you the ability to take out pretty much anything in the game that has a toughness value. The disadvantage is that you have no anti-vehicle option in that lot, so to fill that gap I would pick up either a Ravager, a box of scourges or some Reaver jetbikes, depending on your taste.

I second Plastikente... start with Kabalite Warriors and probably two venoms or a raider. Kabalite Warriors are the backbone of the army and the Venom is probably our best transport. If I was gonna start a DE army right now thats how I'd start and then I'd probably get another box of warriors and 2 venoms once I had the money. Having that good foundation of troops is essential to a DE army and 4 Units of Warriors in Venoms couldn't be a better place to start.

Succubus and grots, eh? No option for a shooty hq? No matter - I appreciate the input either way. Now I have to ask just how much of the army should be devoted to cc, should there be one or two more assaulting units or just have the grots for a distraction carnifex?

Warriors in venoms seems safe. Later on I could get more warriors and a few raiders so the warriors can have the splinter racks while the venoms get stuffed with blaster trueborn. 2 units of each seems okay, unless I need to be more redundant.

The Archon equipped with a blaster is the shooty HQ.
We are not a particularly functional assault army - I would suggest no more than 1/3 of your points going towards assault in any given list.

You can take a listen to the Splintermind podcast episodes where we broke down the sections of the codex in episodes 3-5.
http://www.thedarkcity.net/f33-splintermind

Sorry for the shameless plug....

Quote :

should there be one or two more assaulting units or just have the grots for a distraction carnifex?

Most of the assault units now are plain clean-up units, to finish squads. Even with that, not all of them are any good.

With the good exception of Grots who can pull the weight on their own. So assault for DE - nice thing to have, but core of the force is shooting.

The MCs aren't bad either, at least via the Artisan formation.

Yep, 3 good assault units in the DE faction now

Grots
Dark Artisan
Reavers

Maybe i'd call small khymera beastmasters squad ok.

Maybe.

Also, it's not like Reavers are actually all that good - it's really just the HoW hits that make them functional.

I will admit to wanting to work something involving them joined to an Autarch though in order to use my old Archon jetbike model again.

My line of thinking with Reavers was cheap and cheerfull, they are practically the only leftover high-initiative combat squads we have, barring HQs. And Wyches, but they dont count.

If i'd go with big beefy allied squad - autarch is probably fine, banshee mask ( Read Tormentor Helm), power lance ( Read Punisher ) adding something to squad without rocketing its price.

In my opinion, first you should decide if you want to go comp or fun. If fun is your preferrence, I would suggest, maybe bit contrary to others, to start by not reading the usual "netlists". Pick some basic troops and HQ that you like, build some fluff around that and expand on that fluff and learn how to play with what you chose. It will get you much better learning curve and experience than copying someone's list and trying to make it work. :-)

I's prefer an army that isn't super competitive, but at the same time nothing to sneeze at. Most of all I want variety, something very different from my tyranid army.

So I think as far as cc goes, I'll settle for one reaver jetbike unit and the warlord's retinue. Grots seem like the go to choice, but what about incubi? They have our only 3+ armor and can shred MEQ's, plus take up less transport space.

Also, I hear that the bomber isn't the greatest of choices, but I refuse to pass up fielding such an awesome model. That being said what's the best way to field it - I assume shatterfield missiles, night shields, and void lances?

Well I will repeat what has been said many times - most of your army's strength is in your head. Not in the models/units. Nothing, really nothing can supplement you being familiar with what you play.

That being said - equip your bomber to supplement the rest of your army. Its a flyer, its going to come from reserves and thus supplemental. Trying to equip him among the first choices is not a good idea in my opinion.

As for Incubi - opinions seem to vary. Some (including me) love them, but others see their lack of grenades as a problem. If you want and will field them - learn how to play them. As everything in our army - takes skill.

My personal advice would be. Forget forums, dont spend time reading up on what lists are good and what are not. Instead go out and play even small battles and even those you are bound to lose. :-) Its a time spent much more productively.

I wouldn't say forget forums - hey can be a great place to get advice and a different perspective, just beware of any comments made without justification.

The Succubus and Grot combination works because it can put up a decent fight against anything. The succubus comes with grenades so you pretty much guarantee she's going to fight first and with the option for AP2 she can do some serious damage with her high number of attacks. If she does happen to bounce off (for example if your opponent is high toughness) then the grotesques bring a weapon that wounds on a 4+ at worst. They also have a high number of attacks and so can combat units with good armour (everything counts in large amounts) and against multi wound models they bring the potential for instant death.

Yes, there's nothing that can replace actual game experience, but if you don't take any advice first, then you're probably going to end up with a disjointed army that doesn't work well together (and consequently doesn't work well at all).

Just think about these few principles when you deciding what to have in your list.
-What job does the unit perform, and what is it vulnerable to (Scourges and Ravagers can both perform the same role, but one is invulnerable to small firearms, whilst the other one isn't, but is more mobile whilst maintaining full firepower - one isn't inherently 'better' than the other for this reason).
-Do you like the models?
-What theme do you have in mind for the army - do you want it to be very shooty, fully combat focused, or a combination of both. Does the unit benefit this theme?

In terms of incubi I nearly always field 4 in a venom as a bodyguard for my Archon. It's this unit and my two kabalite warrior squads in dark lance raiders that make up the core of most of my lists. As I starter it's fairly balanced between assault and anti infantry fire with a small amount of anti tank from the raiders (although admittedly nothing to rely on). I'd generally then add a lance ravager for more anti tank and maybe a squad of reavers to support the archon/incubi. The key with our army is ensuring your units support and compliment each other. Generally speaking its not wise to send out lone units into the opponents lines.

In terms of incubi I nearly always field 4 in a venom as a bodyguard for my Archon. It's this unit and my two kabalite warrior squads in dark lance raiders that make up the core of most of my lists. As I starter it's fairly balanced between assault and anti infantry fire with a small amount of anti tank from the raiders (although admittedly nothing to rely on). I'd generally then add a lance ravager for more anti tank and maybe a squad of reavers to support the archon/incubi. The key with our army is ensuring your units support and compliment each other. Generally speaking its not wise to send out lone units into the opponents lines.

I actually like incubi. But then, they're amongst my favourite models full stop so I tend to use them every chance I get. They're fairly good, but you have to pick your battles. Incredibly killy. The comparable fragility means that you want them in a transport, whereas if your IC is escorted by Grots then their high toughness, wounds, and FnP means that they're a viable candidate for WWP insertion.