Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks

amishprn86 wrote:

Splinter Cannons not being heavy is amazing.

I won my games b.c the opponents under estemated -1 to hit with Heavy weapons while moving, and sense Raiders are already -1 to hit 90% the game.

Why are Raiders already -1 to hit 90% of the time?

If enemy advance and shoot they get -1 to hit when shooting.

That is not how I interpreted that but okay.

Heavy weapons are -1 to hit if you move as well and advancing with assault is -1 to hit

When i can move 14" i can get out of LoS of their Heavy weapons and out of range of assualt, so my opponent had to move and having 4+ to hit or sometimes 5+ to hit, compare to a 3+ makes Raiders much more survivable, especially on 1 shot weapons.

What he said

Also that make Venoms even better, b.c they have Flickerfields that are -1 to hit anways, so you could always be -2 to hit against Heavy/assault weapons.

The problem with Venoms for me were they just dont kill as easily as Raiders with Disinegrator Cannons.

My Cannons from the 3 raiders killed many marines where the poison didnt feel as effective.

Im guessing tho venoms might be meta still.

Thank you for your clarifications. I meant I misunderstood amishprn86's post to mean that his raiders benefitted from a -1 to Hit buff. But that's all clear now.

In other news how petty of me would it be to simply point to specific Warrior models and say "That is a Trueborn with a splinter cannon". Because I don't want to remodel that many splinter cannons.

amishprn86 wrote:

Also that make Venoms even better, b.c they have Flickerfields that are -1 to hit anways, so you could always be -2 to hit against Heavy/assault weapons.

The problem with Venoms for me were they just dont kill as easily as Raiders with Disinegrator Cannons.

My Cannons from the 3 raiders killed many marines where the poison didnt feel as effective.

Im guessing tho venoms might be meta still.

I'm sure Raiders with Disintegrator Cannons perform really great, but are they really worth the points? For the cost of a Raider you can almost run 2 Venoms.

And I am much more tempted to max out Disintegrator Cannons on a Ravager and not bring it to the frontline too much.

Venoms are 95pts witht he 2 Splinter Cannons, a Raider is 125 with Dis Cannons os its only 30pts more with that cannon.

But the venom might survival longer if you play it right and are always getting -2 to hits with that 5++ save, over 5 turns you may do more damage .

The problem i ran into was saves, being in cover gives you +1 save many times they had important units (like Havocs) in full cover so they are 2+ saves, my Splinter cannons would take WAY to long to kill where a Dis Cannon makes their 2+ save a 5+ save now.

You can have 2 Blasters in a 5man on venom, shoot the 2 blasters at the guys in ruins and the venom at something else, sure. But it is just something to think about. My poison didnt really do to much all game.

Edit: We are going to be filming many games on 8th for Bat reps, as soon as it is officially out i'll post them.

having looked over the dark elder index a few times, I've been thinking about what would be good units for dark elder in 8th ed. ie

5 trueborn with 2 splinter cannons in a dual cannon venom

12 shots at 36"
15 " " 24"
27 " " 18"
30 " " 12"

10 scourge with 4 S. cannons - 42 shots at 18"

20 kabalites with 2 dark lances - 18 shots at 24" + 2 d. lance shots and 36 at 12" + 2 d. lances.

dissies everywhere = ravagers + raiders maxed out = its obv. our best weapon that's why its 30 points

we could have a mortal wound heavy army - lots of haywire, units of 10 mandrakes and void bombers etc.

on the topic of void bombers anyone annoyed that they made dark scythes good and void lances meh ( I wish I magnetized them... )

what do people think?

Dark Scythes are the way to go for sure, i was going to play my bomber but i left it had home sadly

I personally feel the bomber is our largest improved unit.

I think a couple units of hellions wouldn't be amiss either because of their first turn "deep strike" ability going first makes them a damn good screening unit that the opponent could either waist shots at or ignore, or they can drop right on top of objectives along with scourge and Mandrake's that can do the same thing and could probably guarantee 1st and second turn secured objectives because we immediately have units directly on top of the objectives, which would be a going second strategy and give us an early objective points lead, jetfighters not having one use misses make them a lot more appealing to me as well and each missile has a target it's better for so I'm thinking of adding both of my jetfighters and the Voidraven with dark scythes and missile pods (for larger ground units) or void lances (for opposing flyers or vehicle heavy armies) granted I will probably have to start playing at 2000 or 2500 points to include everything I would want :/

Fly doesnt give DS and Hellions along with many other units lost DS

With that said b.c our vehicles are so much more survival and the units inside ca be dead target priority are different now for us and we can effectively put glass cannon units on the table now like Hellions.

I also personally think the Bomber is better than Razorwing and i'm going to take 1 bomber for sure.

Stormravens FYI are...... stupidly insanely strong, HOLY FREAK they are strong.

I must be losing my mind cause I could have sworn I read that hellions have a similar thing to scourges "winged strike" which does let them "deep strike" after any movement phase including turn one ...

All DS units you can pick w.e turn you want between turns 1, 2 and 3. At the end of turn 3 if they did not come in they are destroyed.

Archon_91 wrote:

I must be losing my mind cause I could have sworn I read that hellions have a similar thing to scourges "winged strike" which does let them "deep strike" after any movement phase including turn one ...

Hellions get the ability to charge after falling back, which no other unit in the army has.

amishprn86 wrote:

Heavy weapons are -1 to hit if you move as well and advancing with assault is -1 to hit

When i can move 14" i can get out of LoS of their Heavy weapons and out of range of assualt, so my opponent had to move and having 4+ to hit or sometimes 5+ to hit, compare to a 3+ makes Raiders much more survivable, especially on 1 shot weapons.

Are you keeping in mind that dark lances, when mounted on raiders/ravagers are changed from heavy to assault? So, if you're firing after moving 14", you're not going to be firing at any penalty.. at least with the vehicular weapons.

krayd wrote:

Archon_91 wrote:

I must be losing my mind cause I could have sworn I read that hellions have a similar thing to scourges "winged strike" which does let them "deep strike" after any movement phase including turn one ...

Hellions get the ability to charge after falling back, which no other unit in the army has.

Fairly certain 'Quins get it...

Edit: Yup, just Checked. Rising Crescendo lets them all do so. Army Wide

krayd wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

Heavy weapons are -1 to hit if you move as well and advancing with assault is -1 to hit

When i can move 14" i can get out of LoS of their Heavy weapons and out of range of assualt, so my opponent had to move and having 4+ to hit or sometimes 5+ to hit, compare to a 3+ makes Raiders much more survivable, especially on 1 shot weapons.

Are you keeping in mind that dark lances, when mounted on raiders/ravagers are changed from heavy to assault? So, if you're firing after moving 14", you're not going to be firing at any penalty.. at least with the vehicular weapons.

I was talking about AGAINST Raiders

Ooo. So heavy weapons are assault on vehicles. So we can move. Then advance. Then shoot at -1?

Yes

Faitherun wrote:

krayd wrote:

Archon_91 wrote:

I must be losing my mind cause I could have sworn I read that hellions have a similar thing to scourges "winged strike" which does let them "deep strike" after any movement phase including turn one ...

Hellions get the ability to charge after falling back, which no other unit in the army has.

Fairly certain 'Quins get it...

Edit: Yup, just Checked. Rising Crescendo lets them all do so. Army Wide

I wasn't counting harlies, since they're technically not in *our* army.

That said, harlies look pretty buffed overall... except the neural shredder seems to have been nerfed pretty hard, and psykers across the board look pretty boring.

Harlequins are AMAZING

4++ on everything
-1 to hit can be on everything
Powers are good (A 2nd movement -1 to hit, can do mortal wounds)
Always Run "Advance" and charge
Pistols are cheaper

They are actually slightly cheaper if you dont spam Voidweavers/Shadowseers

They have HQ's now (and imo better than DE HQ's)

I prefer the Razorwing because of the cool toxin missiles!

I like the Dark Scythes and implosion Missiles