Iron Hands oh my god...

I thought you meant "did i miss something OTHER than re-rolls"

What what re-rolls are you talking about? All SM can re-roll hits/wounds of 1's and have a nother way to gain its either all re-rolls of hits, or wounds, i cant remember what one, UM tho can with Gman all re-rolls hits and wounds

IH just have no need of a captain to get those rerolls to hit

The auto captain is kinda neat, but I suspect most folks will still have a Chapter Master running around the good stuff.

That said, I've been digging Invictor Warsuits. They're pretty solid.

Just played the first game of a store-run tournament, and oh boy. More a comment on the new space marines in general, but the invictor tactical warsuit hurt a lot.
I was doing farely well, my opponent didn't have much stuff left and I was a little ahead in victory points. Then the two suits which were close to my stuff blew up.

One naturally, the other forced with the strat after a fail. Ow.

2d6 mortal wounds to my cronos, two talos, haemonculus, wracks, and a couple kabs hurt a lot.

The game ended in a draw.
Jesus.

AzraeI wrote:

IH just have no need of a captain to get those rerolls to hit

Rites of Battle effects all 1s to hit. Calculated Fury only applies to heavy weapons. I'd argue there is still a place for a Captain in IH because they will never be tempted to switch Doctrines. Hitting a few extra Bolt shots might make up for the loss of Tactical Doctrine. A Lieutenant is a more widely applicable choice, though.

I am seeing more Librarians and Techmarines.

They don't need of a Captain, but they but a Chapter Master for rerolling overwatch hitting at 4+

Chapter Master, Lieutenant, Librarian, Iron Father. It's probably pretty easy to fit all four into the kinds of lists that Iron Hands are going to want to be running.

Edit: Just to clarify the purpose of these, Chapter Masters allow re-rolls of all hit rolls, Lieutenants allow re-rolls of rolls of 1 to wound, Librarians provide healing and a +1 to hit, the Iron Father provides more healing, another +1 to hit and a 5++ aura. It's a hell of a firebase.

Myrvn wrote:

The auto captain is kinda neat, but I suspect most folks will still have a Chapter Master running around the good stuff.

A guy in my area is running around with a Captain in Terminator armor, using Traitor's Bane and a chainfist as a teleporting tank killer.

Quote :

That said, I've been digging Invictor Warsuits. They're pretty solid.

More than solid. Downright savage. These things can kick our butts if IH go first. Auto hitting shots, tons of Heavy shots, most going through our armor entirely. Then there's the dmg3 Invictor Fist attacks. One of these can easily knock out 2 Venoms in the first turn.

I've actually found the warsuits fairly easy to deal with. The lack of an invul has them beaten by darklight spam. And even when they do, it'll only save one shot on average.

Sarcron wrote:

I've actually found the warsuits fairly easy to deal with. The lack of an invul has them beaten by darklight spam. And even when they do, it'll only save one shot on average.

Taking them out isn't a problem. The trick is surviving a unit that has the combination of a) being able to start the game 9 inches away from the enemy and then move before firing, and b) a total of D6 S4 shots, 3 S5 -1AP shots, 2D6 automatically hitting S5 -1 AP shots, and 3 S4 -1AP shots.

That shreds the frak out of fragile Eldar units. It's going to be even worse if Imperial Fists turn out to have their rumoured +1 damage to all heavy weapons.

Something I'm curious about - how are SMs looking when it comes to variety?

As in, are we likely to be up against a particular set of units in most SM lists or do there seem to be quite a few different potential builds?

Looking through this week's top 4 tournament placements... it seems like there are a few different builds with some overlap. Iron Hands made the strongest showing, but White Scars and Ultramarine successors also had a couple of appearances.

Spoiler:

Troops are mostly Intercessors and Scouts, sometimes way more than is necessary to fulfill detachment requirements. Invictors, Eliminators, Repulsors and Leviathans seem to be the most common non-troop units that they'll throw at you. Nothing too surprising there - they're just all very strong units with very strong innate abilities.

Can someone tell me how the relic that reduces damage to half and the strat that reduces damage by 1 (or is it the other way round) works? Does the relic and strat affect multiple units or just the one?

Elfric wrote:

Can someone tell me how the relic that reduces damage to half and the strat that reduces damage by 1 (or is it the other way round) works? Does the relic and strat affect multiple units or just the one?

The Ironstone relic reduces damage to all vehicles within 3" of the bearer by 1. The Duty Eternal stratagem affects a single Dreadnought so that it halves all damage it takes for a phase.

So you get one Dreadnought that's virtually impossible to kill, and a lot of vehicles that are only very hard to kill.

Ahh gotcha so you could bait out a stratagem.and switch targets, Dark Light isn't completely useless then. I can accept a -1 on D6 damage but not halve then minus 1!

Yeah at least if you're dealing with executioners they can't use the half damage strat.

Sarcron wrote:

Just played the first game of a store-run tournament, and oh boy. More a comment on the new space marines in general, but the invictor tactical warsuit hurt a lot.
I was doing farely well, my opponent didn't have much stuff left and I was a little ahead in victory points. Then the two suits which were close to my stuff blew up.

One naturally, the other forced with the strat after a fail. Ow.

2d6 mortal wounds to my cronos, two talos, haemonculus, wracks, and a couple kabs hurt a lot.

The game ended in a draw.
Jesus.

Sorry mate but he cheated you. The strat is called vengeance of the machine spirit and you can only use it on land raiders, redemptors and storm ravens.

Always ask to look at someones strats if they are new to you. I catch people at literally every event.

Burnage wrote:

Sarcron wrote:

I've actually found the warsuits fairly easy to deal with. The lack of an invul has them beaten by darklight spam. And even when they do, it'll only save one shot on average.

Taking them out isn't a problem. The trick is surviving a unit that has the combination of a) being able to start the game 9 inches away from the enemy and then move before firing, and b) a total of D6 S4 shots, 3 S5 -1AP shots, 2D6 automatically hitting S5 -1 AP shots, and 3 S4 -1AP shots.

That shreds the frak out of fragile Eldar units. It's going to be even worse if Imperial Fists turn out to have their rumoured +1 damage to all heavy weapons.

The +1 damage is solid but it only effects vehicles. I also don't think it's very good on the flamer. The best invictor load out IMO is the autocanon. Same average shots, better strength and damage. Sure it doesn't auto hit, but it synergizes with the other heavy weapons and range band much better. That flamer always needs to hit the closest thing which often feths it out of charge range. They die very quickly btw, they have to be delt with, but luckily it's really not that hard.

If take a 2 damage flamer in a heartbeat. -2 AP with a bunch of auto hitting shots? Sure, you wound on 5s, but the autohit is quite a deal.

Also, if you're in range to shoot the flamer you are probably in range to charge as well.

Iron Hands FAQ is out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/warhammer_40000_iron_hands_en-1.pdf

krayd wrote:

Iron Hands FAQ is out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/warhammer_40000_iron_hands_en-1.pdf

wow ... just wow that was the fastest nerf hammer smash in history

Well, guess we'd better get used to the Marine meta for the next six months.

Ok. Even I thought it was going to be more than that and I feel like an Iron Hands apologist...at least the Dreadnought spam got nerfed?

are you guys joking? they uodated the faq didnt you see? the nerfed almost eveything, the feiros invoun aura the ironstone their stratagems EVERYTHING lol

Dang. Ok. That's fair.

Somehow they released an earlier version that didn't include the big changes.

And Iron hands are now balanced, but I am just delighting in all the tears of the people who went out and bought a ton of new models thinking the Iron Hands were the end-all be-all.

So so delicious.