Iron Hands oh my god...

The writer of the iron hands supplement and then the subsequent FAQ must secretly be a Dark Eldar lover, not because they gave us anything but because they they managed to give a whole lot of space marine players happiness then rip it from them as quickly as they could, I can hear the screams of anger coming from sm forums ...

DevilDoll wrote:

are you guys joking? they uodated the faq didnt you see? the nerfed almost eveything, the feiros invoun aura the ironstone their stratagems EVERYTHING lol

Oh thank God, I only saw the initial FAQ at first. These are good changes and will hopefully do a lot to bring Iron Hands in line, although I think they're still going to be very strong.

Archon_91 wrote:

The writer of the iron hands supplement and then the subsequent FAQ must secretly be a Dark Eldar lover, not because they gave us anything but because they they managed to give a whole lot of space marine players happiness then rip it from them as quickly as they could, I can hear the screams of anger coming from sm forums ...  

No true despair without hope.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPU6dJdmPXI

Sweet, sweet suffering.

The Space Marines players should actually be happy, because the Iron Hands acted as a shield for Ultras and Raven Guard, who also have some pretty obnoxious stuff they can pull with FW models and Centurions/Aggressors. The upcoming supplements will no doubt have a bunch of brutality as well. The real balance pass will be in April, as usual.

Red Corsair wrote:

Sarcron wrote:

Just played the first game of a store-run tournament, and oh boy. More a comment on the new space marines in general, but the invictor tactical warsuit hurt a lot.
I was doing farely well, my opponent didn't have much stuff left and I was a little ahead in victory points. Then the two suits which were close to my stuff blew up.

One naturally, the other forced with the strat after a fail. Ow.

2d6 mortal wounds to my cronos, two talos, haemonculus, wracks, and a couple kabs hurt a lot.

The game ended in a draw.
Jesus.

Sorry mate but he cheated you. The strat is called vengeance of the machine spirit and you can only use it on land raiders, redemptors and storm ravens.

Always ask to look at someones strats if they are new to you. I catch people at literally every event.

Well damn. I guess I'll have to talk to him about that.

Sarcron wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:

Sarcron wrote:

Just played the first game of a store-run tournament, and oh boy. More a comment on the new space marines in general, but the invictor tactical warsuit hurt a lot.
I was doing farely well, my opponent didn't have much stuff left and I was a little ahead in victory points. Then the two suits which were close to my stuff blew up.

One naturally, the other forced with the strat after a fail. Ow.

2d6 mortal wounds to my cronos, two talos, haemonculus, wracks, and a couple kabs hurt a lot.

The game ended in a draw.
Jesus.

Sorry mate but he cheated you. The strat is called vengeance of the machine spirit and you can only use it on land raiders, redemptors and storm ravens.

Always ask to look at someones strats if they are new to you. I catch people at literally every event.

Well damn. I guess I'll have to talk to him about that.

When new rules get released, it's normal to make mistakes about them. You can talk with him, but don't be too harsh about it.

True, true, wasn't intending to go on a rant or anything tho lol

Sarcron wrote:

True, true, wasn't intending to go on a rant or anything tho lol

Also, by redemptor I meant repulser. See? It's not totally his fault GW goes and names things so similarly lol.

Yea, I didn't intend my message to mean you should shred people over mistakes. But you should always politely ask to check stratagems your unfamiliar with for this exact reason. Either way, that exact error will never happen to you again so at least you learned from it.

Burnage wrote:

DevilDoll wrote:

are you guys joking? they uodated the faq didnt you see? the nerfed almost eveything, the feiros invoun aura the ironstone their stratagems EVERYTHING lol

Oh thank God, I only saw the initial FAQ at first. These are good changes and will hopefully do a lot to bring Iron Hands in line, although I think they're still going to be very strong.

Fierros only giving invulnerable to Infantry, and increased cost for the Overwatch Strategem… my own despair subsides.


On the other side of things, Crimson Fists look like a sleeper champion.

False Son wrote:

Burnage wrote:

DevilDoll wrote:

are you guys joking? they uodated the faq didnt you see? the nerfed almost eveything, the feiros invoun aura the ironstone their stratagems EVERYTHING lol

Oh thank God, I only saw the initial FAQ at first. These are good changes and will hopefully do a lot to bring Iron Hands in line, although I think they're still going to be very strong.

Fierros only giving invulnerable to Infantry, and increased cost for the Overwatch Strategem… my own despair subsides.

On the other side of things, Crimson Fists look like a sleeper champion.

Each Supplement is frak savage. Flamer aggressors with that Salamander stratagem for automatic 6s for number of hits is going to be painful, along with their ridiculous amounts of re-rolling everything. I honestly think people are sleeping on the Ravens (I get it, they are kind of boring, but so are Imperial Fists and people love those yellow bastards). I expect there will be a major focus on the supplements in the April balance pass.

withershadow wrote:

Each Supplement is frak savage. Flamer aggressors with that Salamander stratagem for automatic 6s for number of hits is going to be painful, along with their ridiculous amounts of re-rolling everything. I honestly think people are sleeping on the Ravens (I get it, they are kind of boring, but so are Imperial Fists and people love those yellow bastards). I expect there will be a major focus on the supplements in the April balance pass.

Raven Guard specialize in things that aren't glamorous in this edition. Killing characters is important, and powerful, but standard marines have Sniper Rifles and Eliminators for that, without the need to use Tactical Doctrine.

The Fist doctrine bonus intrigues me because it doesn't mesh well with their chapter traits (hurray for Dmg2 Heavy Bolters?) and is irrelevant against Tyrannids. Crimson Fists continue to interest me because they have that few in numbers, fight to the end theme going on, whereas their actual rules scale well with body spamming.

I am expecting to see more Master of the Forge led IH after Faith and Fury was published. Fierros stills seems like an auto include. But, you could pay the 1 CP for a second Warlord. +1 to hit for vehicles, with rerolling 1s with Calculated Fury is going to be harsh. I can see something like a MotF sitting back with some Thunderfire Cannons or Whirlwinds all hitting on rerollable 2s.

False Son wrote:

I am expecting to see more Master of the Forge led IH after Faith and Fury was published.  Fierros stills seems like an auto include.  But, you could pay the 1 CP for a second Warlord.  +1 to hit for vehicles, with rerolling 1s with Calculated Fury is going to be harsh.  I can see something like a MotF sitting back with some Thunderfire Cannons or Whirlwinds all hitting on rerollable 2s.

My friend who plays Iron Hands has been using this since Faith and Fury released.
It is ... disgusting. A Master of the Forge giving vehicles +1 to hit with his warlord trait is a monstruosity. It is so strong, there is no word for it. It is the ultimate Iron Hand support character, providing a massive damage increase to the army, as well as repairing 6 wounds a turn when using the repaire twice stratagem, all of that for only 45 points.
(pro tip : combine it with the usual lieutenant for extra cancer)
Basically, if you don't apply -1 to hit modifiers, his entire army automatically hit every shot. It's just as if all his weapons are changed to flamer type.

The thing is, he doesn't even play Primaris Marines (he and I don't like them fluff-wise, that's the main reason for it) but even with his classic marines he kicks my ass real hard.
His list includes a lot of Dreadnoughts and vehicles but also tactical marines for screening, and I can tell you that auto-hitting twin-assault cannons Razorbacks simply annihilate infantry (and even light vehicles) like it's nothing, and don't even get me started on all his auto-hitting las-cannons ...

Isn't a natural 1 to hit always a fail? So you can't have an auto-hitting weapon through BS buffs?

wormfromhell wrote:

Isn't a natural 1 to hit always a fail? So you can't have an auto-hitting weapon through BS buffs?

Of course a natural 1 always fails, but when one's vehicles hit on 2+ (thanks to the Techmarine's warlord trait) and re-roll 1s (thanks to the Iron Hand trait for heavy weapons) it's really hard to miss anything. That's why I say it's basically auto-hitting.

a rerollable 2+ has a 97% hit chance

Karr4x wrote:

The thing is, he doesn't even play Primaris Marines (he and I don't like them fluff-wise, that's the main reason for it) but even with his classic marines he kicks my ass real hard.
His list includes a lot of Dreadnoughts and vehicles but also tactical marines for screening, and I can tell you that auto-hitting twin-assault cannons Razorbacks simply annihilate infantry (and even light vehicles) like it's nothing, and don't even get me started on all his auto-hitting las-cannons ...

Likely the only way i'd field twin Assault Cannon Razorbacks. Wildly overpriced. Hope he's also giving them HK missiles for turn 1.

IH are so stacked in benefits, you could play them lots of different ways without playing dred or tank heavy. They have the only viable Land Speeders, a great list of Relics and Warlord traits. They even have the best use of the Master of the Apothacarion, ignoring injuries on 5+. I want to be mad, but all armies should be so spoiled.