Advent to destruction

Kalmah wrote:

El-Jairo, i do get it in the lore, but still, they don't feel like real Drukhari units to my taste, but that's only my point of view. i'm not saying they don't deserve their existence, only that i don't feel the urge to play them.
Now, that being said, there's a point you mention in your wishlist: A beast the size of an Elephant.
NOW that is something that i would love, something with the power level of a Daemon Engine à-la Maulerfiend. That way they would bring something really unique to our army, because as they are right now, they are speedy creatures in an already speedy army, so they don't really add-up anything to our ranks.

Letting us field the Kharibdyss from Fantasy/Age of Sigmar is such an obvious move. GW just seem really resistant to us gaining access to large units that aren't planes, unfortunately.

Burnage, never saw that model before, but indeed it is fantastic!
I really love the two guys holding the beast in check, it really feels like a beast they brought to the battlefield straight from the arena but that they can't allow to set loose and let it run free.

Or ... just a strange thought, let us use Tyrannids ... I think it's the Cult of the Cursed Blade that has targeted one of the Hive fleets and captured, trained, and bread several tyrannids, even crossbreading the hivemind out of them so beast masters can control them which would allow for unique rules on these models so they wouldn't be direct copies of nids it would be an interesting way to add elite shooting units to the wych cults and would force the beast master into an HQ role ...
I also want to see Scourge become troop choices with access to hexrifles so they are our jumpack/sniper troop choice for kabal and I would like Hellions to be the jumpack troops for the cults

Kalmah wrote:

El-Jairo, i do get it in the lore, but still, they don't feel like real Drukhari units to my taste, but that's only my point of view. i'm not saying they don't deserve their existence, only that i don't feel the urge to play them.
Now, that being said, there's a point you mention in your wishlist: A beast the size of an Elephant.
NOW that is something that i would love, something with the power level of a Daemon Engine à-la Maulerfiend. That way they would bring something really unique to our army, because as they are right now, they are speedy creatures in an already speedy army, so they don't really add-up anything to our ranks.

Very true, yet our army doesn't do swarms and stuff like that but fast and squishy, we have plenty off.

My biggest wish is that Drukhari finally see some development of new units. Just to spice things up.
Coven was developed back in 5th edition with Wracks and Grotesques invented/re-designed. Also Talos got an upgrade and Chronos was invented.

Why not expand on these lines?
Maybe do something crazy like a sub-faction that allies with demons or subdues demons. So we could introduce a whole new bunch of crazy units/mechanics.

I really like the 40k lore but the game feels like it's a re-hashed game that is simplified, yet they don't dare to really improve it.
For example, with weapons becoming more damaging, having first turn becomes that more important. Maybe they should consider alternating activation of units? Sure it messes up with their different turn phases but the fact that a whole army get to go before you can react, is just asking for a disaster to happen.
But okay, this isn't the place to rant.

I really want more possible and viable choices for Drukhari. If they are going to make bad units, make the other units almost as bad, so you still have options.

Ahh M.A.D. balance

Only things i can justify not being core are beasts and mandrakes

New hazy prediction: new TRUEBORN Drew Carrey like primaris for the dark eldar .... Of all terrible things ive posted dont let this be true

I really like the 40k lore but the game feels like it's a re-hashed game that is simplified, yet they don't dare to really improve it.
For example, with weapons becoming more damaging, having first turn becomes that more important. Maybe they should consider alternating activation of units? Sure it messes up with their different turn phases but the fact that a whole army get to go before you can react, is just asking for a disaster to happen.
But okay, this isn't the place to rant.[/quote]


i've not a lot a playtesting under my belt, but it is indeed something i've already thought of.
1st player choose a unit, makes its move, psychic, shoot, melee etc...but only with the chosen unit.
Next, the opponent do the same, switch, switch etc...until a player has no more units, than the remaining player just continue until he has nos more units.

The command phase would be for both player at the start of the battle turn.

Or they could even create a new data for datasheets: initiative! The higher the initiative, the sooner it will act. But i know that those changes would involve probably too much modifications to the game....maybe for 10th edition? lol

Here is an unusual wish I have not seen anyone else voice. It came up when I tried to play around with my 2 Kabal/1 Cult 9th list that I am running, taking out the Voidraven as the Razorwing JF does just fine on its own, and the bomb is underwhelming against MSU.

A Court of the Archon style unit for Beasts. Jetbikes are kinda fun and useful, but you basically cant have them AND beasts because of the limit of 2 fast attack in a patrol. But all beasts arnt nearly fast enough to compete. But you cant make beasts into elites because, again, slots are restricted.

If they are going to push Raiding Force (and much as I want them to go back to a mixed Drukhari force, I dont think they will due to Raiding Force being explicitly called out in our Faction Focus for 9th) then having the ability to actually field both beasts and bikes in the same patrol would be nice (ok, ok, sure, you can have one squad of each, but there are 3 types of beast unit and bikes work well in multiple units).

albions-angel wrote:

Here is an unusual wish I have not seen anyone else voice. It came up when I tried to play around with my 2 Kabal/1 Cult 9th list that I am running, taking out the Voidraven as the Razorwing JF does just fine on its own, and the bomb is underwhelming against MSU.

A Court of the Archon style unit for Beasts. Jetbikes are kinda fun and useful, but you basically cant have them AND beasts because of the limit of 2 fast attack in a patrol. But all beasts arnt nearly fast enough to compete. But you cant make beasts into elites because, again, slots are restricted.

If they are going to push Raiding Force (and much as I want them to go back to a mixed Drukhari force, I dont think they will due to Raiding Force being explicitly called out in our Faction Focus for 9th) then having the ability to actually field both beasts and bikes in the same patrol would be nice (ok, ok, sure, you can have one squad of each, but there are 3 types of beast unit and bikes work well in multiple units).

Uh... good news? We basically have that already - beasts don't take up detachment slots in matched play. You have to run the Beastmaster to field them, so you're burning an Elite slot, but it's not like there's that much competition there in Cult detachments.

Grimcrimm wrote:

Well with the new codex 2-3 months around the corner(i assume) i figure we could do with telling Old muse vect what we want from the great raid this year.
Fear not if you have already posted this elsewhere as the second part of this discussion is to try our best to see into the future and put those predictions to paper whether likely or goofy i want to see them.

What i want most: Malyss/Trueborn/ Heavy weapons kabalites

What i predict: 1 more artack to mandrakes/ big buffs to non-coven/kabal/cults

New vect, trueborn kabalites and a newer version of the old finecast archon

Also different “school of art” for haemonculi that work like the different psychic doctrines of different SM chapters

Wouldnt it be AWESOME if the new codex made us say " i WANT to bring troops in kabal and cults"

Burnage wrote:

albions-angel wrote:

Here is an unusual wish I have not seen anyone else voice. It came up when I tried to play around with my 2 Kabal/1 Cult 9th list that I am running, taking out the Voidraven as the Razorwing JF does just fine on its own, and the bomb is underwhelming against MSU.

A Court of the Archon style unit for Beasts. Jetbikes are kinda fun and useful, but you basically cant have them AND beasts because of the limit of 2 fast attack in a patrol. But all beasts arnt nearly fast enough to compete. But you cant make beasts into elites because, again, slots are restricted.

If they are going to push Raiding Force (and much as I want them to go back to a mixed Drukhari force, I dont think they will due to Raiding Force being explicitly called out in our Faction Focus for 9th) then having the ability to actually field both beasts and bikes in the same patrol would be nice (ok, ok, sure, you can have one squad of each, but there are 3 types of beast unit and bikes work well in multiple units).

Uh... good news? We basically have that already - beasts don't take up detachment slots in matched play. You have to run the Beastmaster to field them, so you're burning an Elite slot, but it's not like there's that much competition there in Cult detachments.

Huh, yeah, we do. Its a Battlescribe problem, not a Rules problem. Thats weird.

Would love a few DE centered stories. Dont need a full Dark Eldar Trillogy - Part 2, but a neat story to see something from the perspective of the Wych Cults would be interesting.

The Duke

Went to my local GW yesterday. The owner is a super nice guy, and was hinting that DE may get released in the first week of Jan (he was basing this on previous years, not inside knowledge).

That would be an awesome New Years present for us all

I'm going to take a different approach, and list things which I would like to see retired from DE codex.

- Beasts and beastmasters. They have been a cool-factor for many editions, but perhaps have never quite worked as intended, with abusive spam lists causing them to be nerfed several times. Many players also look at conversions or 3rd party alternatives instead of the finecast models.

- Court of the Archon. Very cool concept, has never really worked. They either need some proper character rules and purpose the in army (something like GSC characters where each one does a specific job), or lead the way for the finecast range to slip into the great beyond.

- Superfluous (melee) weapon options. We have many variations of "poisoned weapon", but with an extra AP or better wound roll (most of these exist for historical reasons, created in 5th ed codex). We don't need 5 different weapons when only 1 will emerge as the best choice.

- Lore, the Ynnari/Kabal/Cult/Coven split. Lilith and some wyches joined Yvraine, but some didn't. Some kabals may have joined, but Vect and some others didn't. And the covens don't want to join due to some hazy ethics reasons around use of souls, but are ok sharing research papers with chaos. Ynnari seems to have caused more divisions rather than being a unifying factor, and it kinda just doesn't make sense.

AlCorps wrote:

I'm going to take a different approach, and list things which I would like to see retired from DE codex.

- Beasts and beastmasters. They have been a cool-factor for many editions, but perhaps have never quite worked as intended, with abusive spam lists causing them to be nerfed several times. Many players also look at conversions or 3rd party alternatives instead of the finecast models.

- Court of the Archon. Very cool concept, has never really worked. They either need some proper character rules and purpose the in army (something like GSC characters where each one does a specific job), or lead the way for the finecast range to slip into the great beyond.

- Superfluous (melee) weapon options. We have many variations of "poisoned weapon", but with an extra AP or better wound roll (most of these exist for historical reasons, created in 5th ed codex). We don't need 5 different weapons when only 1 will emerge as the best choice.

- Lore, the Ynnari/Kabal/Cult/Coven split. Lilith and some wyches joined Yvraine, but some didn't. Some kabals may have joined, but Vect and some others didn't. And the covens don't want to join due to some hazy ethics reasons around use of souls, but are ok sharing research papers with chaos. Ynnari seems to have caused more divisions rather than being a unifying factor, and it kinda just doesn't make sense.

I'd have to entirely disagree with you there.

Retiring beasts and the court because they don't stand up to competitive is absolutely the last thing we need. Ignoring how we've already lost so many units and characters, the content in a codex should absolutely never be based entirely on 'meta'. Both of those groups are parts of the dark eldar faction, in lore and out, and losing them because they're not good, is ridiculous.

People like to run fluffy lists, people like to run 'meta' lists, people like to run more fun-oriented lists. What's important in a codex is that it caters to all of these, to remove remove multiple weapon options and 8 unique model kits is baffling.

On the point of ynnari causing divisions, well yes, you even stated some the reasons why they do. How does it make little sense for them to cause divisions? I'll admit I've had some problems with the ynnari faction, but I still enjoy them, and would hardly want to lose the interesting perscpetive they provide.
And I wouldn't go far as to say covens give research to chaos, more some very specific covens are closely related with Fabius Bile, who rejects the chaos gods. The haemonculi aren't stupid enoguh to directly aid slaanesh.

I certainly don't want to see beasts disappear- they are a great throwback to the original Dark Eldar codex that I really enjoyed. I do think the court should be condensed into one unit.

I am also hoping for some neat secondary objectives, bringing back the raiding theme of the army.  I thought I would have a go at some codex-specific secondary objectives, one of them being a generic Drukhari objective and one themed for each of the subfactions.

fisheyes wrote:

Went to my local GW yesterday. The owner is a super nice guy, and was hinting that DE may get released in the first week of Jan (he was basing this on previous years, not inside knowledge).

That would be an awesome New Years present for us all

So the Death Guard delay won't affect next releases? I find it hard to believe, but I hope he's right!

I don't expect much from leaks, i would expect info from the warhammer community or from twitch previews.

The reason for this is due to most leaks in 2020 have been screenshots of stats sheets in boxes of new models sent to Asian countries ahead of release. While we will get an exciting codex update I don't expect new models beyond Lelith and so there will be minimal leaks for Drukhari.

Lastly, if Jan 21 is the target it's getting late for leaks, the Death Guard leaks have already come mostly. The new info now is directly from Warhammer Community.

Super hyped for the new Dex tho, more freedom on army building and more character options is top of my list. Troops Unit being able to pick more weapon options to increase damage output and HQ "command" venoms/ raiders that allow for aura abilities to still be used.

I'd prefer the character aura abilities to reflect the nature of our army. Imperium/SM are leaders and are supposed to be inspiring, Drukhari care less about this, It's a selfish society that doesn't help each other freely. Coven aura I think makes sense as is their creations, they are boasting them but I'd allow it to grow in potency as models are killed within range of Haemonculus.

Succubus are amazing dualists, they should debuff an enemy instead of buffing wyches (-1WS) or loss of attacks would be thematic or a space marine seal of oath like power against a target unit.

Archons are ancient, rich, arrogant aristocrats. They should be bringing unique weapons and personal body guards to the fight. They should have versatile courts they can bring that get bonuses for achieving the archons whims but get negatives if the archon or court models are injuried or die.

The idea is that within a raiding force the Kabal, Cult and Coven all have their own reasons and machinations for being there and the character auras, interaction with with battle and how we score VP should reflect this.

I'd rather not be a distorted mirror image of how marines play.

(Nothing against marines! )

I would like to see a big overhaul to splinter weapons. The always wound on 4+ poison rule was great, fun, and interesting (without being overpowered) when we got it back in 5ed. But back then toughness mattered more and things had less wounds. But the game has changed so much since then, and the splinter rule has stayed the same, and is now not nearly as good as it was when first invented.

The way splinter poison is described it would be better characterized by being low strength, high damage. Though I'm not sure if that would be good, or even fun to play. It would just fit the story description ^_^
And it would bring back some feeling of the outrageousness that was wounding everything on 4+, back in the day. Haha

Denegaar wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

Went to my local GW yesterday. The owner is a super nice guy, and was hinting that DE may get released in the first week of Jan (he was basing this on previous years, not inside knowledge).

That would be an awesome New Years present for us all

So the Death Guard delay won't affect next releases? I find it hard to believe, but I hope he's right!

i do believe it won't affect us, cause if it were to affect us, that would mean that EVERY future codexes would be delayed from their original release date.....would not do senses at all.
Nothing prevent GW from releasing 2 codexes at the same time, they did it countless times! Especially knowing that every codexes are already written (supposedly)

For what it's worth, the employee at my GW store also said he was told by his higher-up that the Drukhari codex will not be delayed.  Did they say January 2021 or Q1 2021?  I thought it was Q1.

Edit:  Just reread the article from the November 21 preview.  It says Drukhari will be the first Xenos codex of 2021, and specifically mentions early January for just the Dark Angels supplement. The video just says early 2021 for Drukhari.

End of January or beginnings of February is my bet.

With Dark Angels in Jan and Death Guard delayed I expect these to be the Jan releases, GW does around 2 releases a month it appears currently. This will allow Drukhari to be Feb or March and as Death Guard were delayed they could of knocked Drukahri out of Jan but we'd never know as GW only ever said Q1, so technically not delayed.

Though they also didn't say anything about the codex after dark angels so I can easily see how them saying that Druhkari would be the first Xenos codex of Q1 after the dark angels release would get people thinking that Druhkari would be next after Dark Angels and with them not saying Dark Angels have been delayed I don't think we have been either