HERO's New Book and New Lists

Tried out the list today.  It was fun, but I ran face first into a buzzsaw of Custodes and their army wide 3++\4++.  My opponent’s saving throws for the first three turns were insanely good, probably at 95% for 3++ and 85% for 4++.  Every time a Blaster shot made it past his saves, I would inevitably roll a 1-2 for damage.  Over the course of the game, all the poison and dark light killed two bikes and took Trajan down to one wound.  I was able to squeak out a win by two points because a Raider exploded and did around 18 mortal wounds to my opponent’s army, including killing Trajan who was one of his While We Stand units.  It was a really interesting game.  The two Succubus’, the Blood Brides, and Incubi single-handedly kept me in the game, so that part of the list works great.

Those are some... ridiculous saves. Should not be 95% for 3++ and 85% for 4++ for 3 turns can't base a game on that Glad you won though!

Haha, yeah we both were in awe of his saving throws. It was like he became the unholy love child of Lawrence Baker and Brian Pullen. But it did make me realize that one possible change to list might be to add some reliable mortal wounds besides the Precision Blows Succubus. Not sure what to take out though.

sweetbacon wrote:

Haha, yeah we both were in awe of his saving throws.  It was like he became the unholy love child of Lawrence Baker and Brian Pullen. But it did make me realize that one possible change to list might be to add some reliable mortal wounds besides the Precision Blows Succubus.  Not sure what to take out though.  

That would probably be Reaver Jetbikes for Eviscerating Flyby if you want mortals. Otherwise, a Voidraven Bomber. I would still probably go with JBs with Heat Lances, but I can see the VR being played. It's not terrible.

I played another list today with Incubi vs. Ultras. It was bad. As in, not very close, tabled them by T3.

List here:

Quote :

Drazhar's Bitches
--------------------------------
2000, 14 CP -2 WL Traits, -2 Relic = 10 CP

+++Patrol #1 - Black Heart+++

HQ:
Master Archon, Huskblade, BPistol = 90
WL: Hatred Eternal
Relic: Djin Blade

TROOP:
10x Trueborn, 2x Blaster, Lance = 230
+Raider, Racks

10x Warriors, 2x Blaster, Lance = 210
+Raider, Racks

HEAVY:
Ravager = 140
Ravager = 140

+++Patrol #2 - Black Heart+++

HQ:
Drazhar = 135

TROOP:
5x Warriors, Blaster = 135
+Raider

5x Warriors, Blaster = 135
+Raider

ELITE:
5x Incubi = 170
+Raider, Trophies

5x Incubi = 170
+Raider, Trophies

HEAVY:
Ravager = 140

+++Patrol #3 - Cult of Strife+++

HQ:
Master Succubus, Adrenalight = 75
WL: Competitive Edge
Relic: Triptych Whip

Succubus, Razorflails, Adrenalight = 60
WL: Precision Blows
Relic: Dark Lotus Toxin

TROOP:
10x Bloodbrides, Grave Lotus = 120
5x Wyches, Grave Lotus = 50

After game 4, I've adjusted the list again and it looks like this:

Quote :

BIG DICK DRAZHAR
--------------------------------
1997, 14 CP -2 WL Traits, -2 Relic = 10 CP

+++BLACK HEART PATROL+++

HQ:
Master Archon: Ancient Evil, Djin Blade, BPistol = 90
+Raider = 85

TROOP:
10x Trueborn, 2x Blaster, Lance = 135
5x Warriors, Blaster = 50
5x Warriors, Blaster = 50

HEAVY:
Ravager = 140
Ravager = 140

PARTY BOATS:
Raider, Racks = 95
Raider, Racks = 95
Raider, Racks = 95

+++BLACK HEART PATROL+++

HQ:
Drazhar = 135

TROOP:
5x Warriors, Blaster = 50
5x Warriors, Blaster = 50

ELITE:
7x Incubi = 112

HEAVY:
Ravager = 140

PARTY BOATS:
Raider, Trophies = 90
Raider, Trophies = 90
Raider = 85

+++STRIFE PATROL+++

HQ:
Master Succubus: CEdge, TWhip, Adrenal = 75
Succubus: PBlows, DLT, Razors, Adrenal = 60

TROOP:
10x Bloodbrides, Grave Lotus = 120
10x Wyches, Grave Lotus = 100

What I've found so far: Sometimes, I wish I had more Incubi per squad, even with Drazhar. So the additional Incubi has been added to a single squad, BECAUSE, MSU Wyches die really badly, 5 Wyches goes down pretty consistently to a single MSU unit of Bolters fired from MSU MEQ/Sisters.

To find points and consolidate the resources above, I turned all my Warriors into MSU to benefit from BH re-rolls at the loss of lances. What I've found is: The list has enough lances to do the big work, so cutting them was appropriate. I've also found that even with BH re-roll, I move a lot with my gunboats for positioning/cover, and thus 4+ RR is just not good. As an added bonus, I now have greater scoring flexibility for objsec/scrambler play, and more target saturation with MSU.

Oh, another big, huge change, is Ancient Evil over Eternal Hatred. Why? Because frak counter-attack strategem, especially in key fights.

How are you holding ground without Coven support? I found that without units of Wracks to hold backfield/midfield, obsec units would just come and take them from me. Obsec scarabs/plague demons/ random sisters units/etc

fisheyes wrote:

How are you holding ground without Coven support? I found that without units of Wracks to hold backfield/midfield, obsec units would just come and take them from me. Obsec scarabs/plague demons/ random sisters units/etc

You hold them with the Warriors, ideally in cover. That was why I changed into MSU for the Warriors. If they come and take it from you, just kill them. In general, the army plays very differently is that your answer for how to deal, is by killing those said units. For my list, you can think of it as; 3 units (Wyches, Incubi) are offensive in Raiders and 1 are in defensive (Trueborn), 1 mid-field (2x5 Warriors), and 1 flex for mid/backfield (2x5).

Your Succubus are extremely effective at killing any MSU objsec. Just take some of your Raiders, empty ones included, and have them tag along so you can charge/kill stuff.

HERO wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

How are you holding ground without Coven support? I found that without units of Wracks to hold backfield/midfield, obsec units would just come and take them from me. Obsec scarabs/plague demons/ random sisters units/etc

You hold them with the Warriors, ideally in cover. That was why I changed into MSU for the Warriors. If they come and take it from you, just kill them. In general, the army plays very differently is that your answer for how to deal, is by killing those said units. For my list, you can think of it as; 3 units (Wyches, Incubi) are offensive in Raiders and 1 are in defensive (Trueborn), 1 mid-field (2x5 Warriors), and 1 flex for mid/backfield (2x5).

Your Succubus are extremely effective at killing any MSU objsec. Just take some of your Raiders, empty ones included, and have them tag along so you can charge/kill stuff.

Would you consider streaming one of your test games on TTS to let us see how you conduct your army?
I think it would be of great help for us

Garion wrote:

HERO wrote:

fisheyes wrote:

How are you holding ground without Coven support? I found that without units of Wracks to hold backfield/midfield, obsec units would just come and take them from me. Obsec scarabs/plague demons/ random sisters units/etc

You hold them with the Warriors, ideally in cover. That was why I changed into MSU for the Warriors. If they come and take it from you, just kill them. In general, the army plays very differently is that your answer for how to deal, is by killing those said units. For my list, you can think of it as; 3 units (Wyches, Incubi) are offensive in Raiders and 1 are in defensive (Trueborn), 1 mid-field (2x5 Warriors), and 1 flex for mid/backfield (2x5).

Your Succubus are extremely effective at killing any MSU objsec. Just take some of your Raiders, empty ones included, and have them tag along so you can charge/kill stuff.

Would you consider streaming one of your test games on TTS to let us see how you conduct your army?
I think it would be of great help for us

Stay tuned.. I don't plan on using TTS soon, getting full vaxxed soon and hopefully will be streaming elsewhere. I also noticed the link in the first post is broken, I'll need to update that soon.

Great news!

Quote :

SELF-NERFED
--------------------------------
2000, 14 CP -2 WL Traits, -2 Relic = 10 CP

+++BLACK HEART PATROL+++

HQ:
Master Archon: Djin Blade, BPistol = 90
WL: Eternal Hatred

TROOP:
10x Trueborn, 2x Blaster, Lance = 135
5x Warriors, Blaster = 50
5x Warriors, Blaster = 50

ELITE:
Incubi = 80
Incubi = 80

HEAVY:
Ravager = 140
Ravager = 140

PARTY BOATS:
Raider, Chains = 90
Raider, Chains = 90
Raider, Racks = 95
Raider, Racks = 95
Raider, Chains, Trophies = 95
Raider, Chains, Trophies = 95

+++OBSIDIAN ROSE PATROL+++

HQ:
Master Archon: Agonizer, BPistol = 85

TROOP:
10x Trueborn, 2x Blaster, Lance = 135

+++RED GRIEF PATROL+++

HQ:
Master Succubus: +BGlaive, Adrenal = 75
+WL: Precision Blows

Succubus: +TWhip, Adrenal = 60
+WL: Quicksilver Fighter

TROOP:
10x Bloodbrides, Grave Lotus = 120
10x Wyches, Grave Lotus = 100
10x Wyches, Grave Lotus = 100

FYI, this is my self-imposed exile into less meta elements.

Still a good list, but definitely something I can play in more casual games.

Seems good for me. A few questions though:
1. Why the chains? Wouldnt you profit more from PGL?
2. No Wychweapons?
3. Poisoned Tongue Archon with Venomblade? Wouldnt the Agonizer do a better Job?
I use one with my PT Master Archon, in combination with the Soulheim and consumate Weaponsmaster. Gets the job done.

Zenotaph wrote:

Seems good for me. A few questions though:
1. Why the chains? Wouldnt you profit more from PGL?
2. No Wychweapons?
3. Poisoned Tongue Archon with Venomblade? Wouldnt the Agonizer do a better Job?
I use one with my PT Master Archon, in combination with the Soulheim and consumate Weaponsmaster. Gets the job done.

Yeah np, some answers:
1. The Chains are actually quite amazing with BH. They're like 2 S7 Wyches when you have 2 of them, been getting quite a bit of mileage out of them surprisingly. They're also quite good in the mirror as you can beat down other Raiders and still shoot them in combat. I wasn't a believer before but after some games, I've been enjoy it. PGL are always a solid suggestion but I'm liking the direction of just get in your face and CC when it comes to it.
2. No, due to points and Wych weapons are just not enough value for me to justify them. The only one worth taking is Morvaine's Agonizer or Blast Pistols for 5 on the Hekatrix, but I think the points are better spent elsewhere.
3. Agonizer is just S3 which IMO, I really hate on. I completely forgot about the Agonizer, so I'll change that, thanks for the catch. Been playing Djin for too long with only one Archon.

The Soulhelm and Weaponmaster sounds good, just that I'm tapped out on WL/Relics

Lastly, I made a change to Obs Rose for some re-roll wounds on the Dark Lance.

The thing is, too much people are saying, or rather shouting, Djinnblade is the only Archon loadout.
Well, although I see their point, I just didnt want to agree. So I macgyvered a little:
Archon with 'only' 5 attacks, hitting on 2+, wounding on 3+, ignoring high Toughness, with AP-3 and flat 2D.
That, of course, comes nowhere near the Djinnblade Archon, but the clue is, he is much sturdier,
having a build in -1 to hit and 5+++ fnp.
And picture the face of your opponent, when using the Metallotoxins Stratagem with the Fight twice Abillity to destroy a Tank.

3-0 with the self-nerfed list.. double Trueborn.. are kinda nuts. They're just so much in a league of their own.

Red Grief has also been really great for me, the fact that they have such reliable charges is great.

Also, PB + 3D Blood Glaive have been a lot of fun. Highlight from me was running her into a unit of 4 DA Relics and popping 4 lol (4 6s).

Ah... PB?

Zenotaph wrote:

Ah... PB?

Precision Blows

Thanks. I really havent thought of that. Its a bit of pain, translating all special rules from german to english and then look, what might fit.

You have been able to make RG work? Running RG Raiders to use the Strat to get back in after?

personally i really love the RG obsession (well.....for my part almost every obsession seems playable).
The prevent light cover is almost a bonus to AP, and knowing that this is the big flaws for our poison weapon, this can mitigate that a little.
the +2M is icing on the cake

fisheyes wrote:

You have been able to make RG work? Running RG Raiders to use the Strat to get back in after?

I managed this once. Its always a longshot and you really cant count on it.
In theory the strat sounds really nice, but in reality, its hard to make it work and is mostly not worth the CP.

That's my thought, but haven't had time to try it out. Plus the free reroll from BH is a big thing to give up

fisheyes wrote:

You have been able to make RG work? Running RG Raiders to use the Strat to get back in after?

RG is kinda amazing.. their threat range and reliability is unmatched, not even by Strife. Yes, Strife gets ALL the goodies, but I'm extremely surprised by the threat range that RG gets. I would argue that if I had 20 Wyches out of WWP, re-roll charges is prob better than +1 to charge.

I also really like the PB + Blood Glaive, the 3D is no joke when you just mortal it. The WL trait is also pretty attractive tbh, not being hit on anything but 4s makes a lot of characters do really poorly against her. In general, I think I prefer to have my ladies do damage as they should be used as precision-guided missiles that are applicable in whatever area of the map they're needed.

As for giving up BH re-rolls, never, I don't think this will ever be an option for me as long as it exists. One thing to note is that I can't stress how good double Trueborn is lol. I'm having a hard time looking at Warriors in general with how the TB has been performing in my games. The 24" Blasters from Obs Rose is nice, I'm going to try the Merciless Razorkin + Tortuous Efficiency combo next.

Keep in mind that my actual competitive list is still stronger, for sure. It just has more tools for the job. However, I would not mind at all taking this current list in more casual settings.

btw sorry for my earlier post......i was talking about the Flayed Skull....not Red Grief at all......my bad! (lol i'm still learning all the abbreviations you guys use)

Hey HERO, I gave the list a spin. Really like it. Lately I was playing also with helions. Have considered them in your listt?