6th Ed rumors and DE

If agonisers are ap3, for sure i won't take anything else than a single Haemie. Even Vect will be garbage.

What's the bonus to having open topped? I'm sure that all your units can shoot from it, but open topped is the only reason we could move, jump out and charge in 5th, I'm sure that we'll get some bonus to movement (possibly including the ability to bail out after moving 12"), but being in an open topped vehicle will still give you a charge advantage over other non-open topped vehicles in some way...

Crazy_Irish wrote:

it's a Trap!

It is, indeed, a trap...



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Edit:

Everyone keeps complaining, but tbh, we have one of the most versatile armies out right now. We can do massive hordes to take down peeps, we can do elite gunslingers, we can do hack and slash, we can do surprise drops from thin air, and we can do rapid engagement (via WWP). Our commanders are getting better with the ability to challenge, and at least our incubi will likely have AP2 ccw, as well as draz, lelith, and possibly vect (cant see the scepter getting nerfed to a 3+ AP). 6th ed may make you change your tactics, sure, but thats not a bad thing, and it's going to be a long stretch from making the army unplayable. We'll be able to take out vehs easier than any other army (except maybe 'crons) with our haywires (that we can still spam... can take 12 on scourges and 3TL on talos, and all the grenades). Half of the games we play, we'll be out of range (if you have dudes in a veh with NS) on the first turn, while you will have the ability to fire with no penalty back, and those rules have the possibility of lasting past first turn now! Even if you decide not to take any allies, you're still going to have a extremely potent army, just learn to think and use EVERYTHING you have at your disposal, rather than saying "oh, my basic dudes aren't working as well anymore, guess i'll just give up"

I think im going to make a harlequin army, comprised of components of both DE and CWE. Gonna be sweet.


Think about some of the rumors though. Beasts will be able to ignore cover. Jump infantry gets their first attack on I10. Seriously, you think we got nerfed?

Don't know, if everything goes well i will have the rulebook tomorrow and i'll tell you. Sadly i think we have to wait a lot for the faqs to be up on gw site.

Ereshkigal wrote:

If agonisers are ap3, for sure i won't take anything else than a single Haemie. Even Vect will be garbage.

Vect does not have an agoniser, he has his pimp staff, that wounds on 3+. The wording is pretty much the same, but they are not the same.

@Sorrowshard: We are not lucky, you are just unlucky. In my last 2 games(750P) i tried out the baron, and in each game his first saves where both 1s. Thats just bad luck. but i would not go and say, the baron is no use, he allways fails his SF.

A 2++ is as good as it gets. especially with a FnP that is not canceled out by AP2 and AP1. (even though the double S would kill us then ;-) )
Still he is pretty reliable and with his high WS most enemys will hit him on a 4+. wounding on a 3+. Thats really ok.
And reguarding the expensive Huskblade. it may be S as wielder but we have the equipment to make it into a S10 weapon.
That is freaking awesome, and i have wielded that power a good few times. even S6 is pretty hard enough.

But then again, as i recall it right, you most of the time go for an heami or baron, which is totally ok, an Archon may not be your playstile but for some of us, it just works, and its not our luck, as luck is irrelevant if you compaire a ton of games.

But then again, not everyone can be an archon right ;-)

Has anyone had the rule book and played some games? Its easy to assume the worst, and granted it looks bad right now, but I doubt any of us on here have tested DE in 6th so the truth is we just dont know the whole picture.

DE could suck, but then they have never really been a top tier tournament army. Eldar cant be that far away and I would wager most of us like those too. If we are nerfed then we are nerfed, will have to run another army or play a new game. It may not be fair, or right but them is the apples GW has baked.

But seriously, play a few games, we might be surprised?!

Another 1st post whiner here! Ereshkigal, you're not alone! Lemme start on something positive, this has been the source of most of my DE tactics and knowledge for a while, so thank you!

Now, I'm all for "wait til the rulebook before we huddle and cry.", there is just one thing that I just can't ignore, especially coming from DE players...

How can anyone truly say 2D6" assault without fleet running is better than our 5th ed D6" + 6" assault with fleet running?! In 5th ed, our assault range is 7"-12" with fleet running; in 6th ed, we are 2"-12" with useless fleet USR... How is that better? Reroll doesn't mean it will be higher than last, unless we can pick how many dice we are rerolling, the chance of getting an even shorter charge is still there.

I'd much prefer knowing that I could flat-out my raiders, then get that guarantee'd 7" assault than a high chance of getting lower assault range, getting shot at by overwatch, then being finished off because of our resilient assault units are now standing in the open, picking their nose or something. And if we were to play it safe, we'd actually have to park our raiders closer.

On the plus side, we get to fire our awesome splinter pistols and possibly a blast pistol before we charge, we loved them so much, which is why we wouldn't hesitate to run in 5th ed.

I'm gonna hold onto the slim hope that GW will save us with the FAQ, or if the challenge rules are real, at the very least, we should be one of the better armies at dueling....?

Why nobody mentions the Talos as a good point? it seems MC have improved, they are considered AP2 so he would make a perfect 2+ killer, furthermore an even more obvious target for enemy's heavy weapons. And as we all know, if a DE army is well built, targeting everything is nearly impossible.
His TL AP1 weapon will be very useful too. I have always fielded one in v5, and I think to go on if I read all these things with the book in my hands!

Hoping for good faq is a good way to get disappointed imho. It's just like tyranids, they thought their codex was designed with 6th in mind, and turns out they are better in 5th... who would have thought?

Inrit wrote:

Why nobody mentions the Talos as a good point? it seems MC have improved, they are considered AP2 so he would make a perfect 2+ killer, furthermore an even more obvious target for enemy's heavy weapons. And as we all know, if a DE army is well built, targeting everything is nearly impossible.
His TL AP1 weapon will be very useful too. I have always fielded one in v5, and I think to go on if I read all these things with the book in my hands!

Great for claiming objective in that mission where heavy is counted as scoring unit too.

This is the one thing I like about the 6th ed rumours so far, I didn't want to build a ravager 3 times... And now Talos or even Cronos should perform a tad bit better, I can legitimately buy a box or 2 of them without feeling like I've handicapped my army.

Quote :

On the plus side, we get to fire our awesome splinter pistols and possibly a blast pistol before we charge, we loved them so much, which is why we wouldn't hesitate to run in 5th ed.

Well - there is also grenade )). Wyches can throw it.

Quote :

Why nobody mentions the Talos as a good point? it seems MC have improved, they are considered AP2 so he would make a perfect 2+ killer

2+? Sanguinary Guards? Maybe
Terminators? Hell no.

Sorrowshard wrote:

35 points for a str 3 (possibly ap3) 'force weapon is not good .

so you think that a weapon that costs as much as a grotesque will only give S3 AP3 ID attacks. When a power sword costs 5 silly points.

It wouldn't be that strange if they give Incubi AP3 ccw, not at all, specially if you look at GKs nerf. But that way we won't see many Incubi in 6th... Sh**.

I go for low cost utility chars because after many many games with Archon or similar they just dont cut the mustard, so I pay for a minimum spend char so I can get actual useful things for the army. I took an Archon to the last throne of skulls , placed as best DE general and in the top 5 overall , I did this despite the Archon doing jack all worthwhile the entire tourney , subsequently he's not been in my armys to their benefit.

Azdrubael wrote:

Quote :

On the plus side, we get to fire our awesome splinter pistols and possibly a blast pistol before we charge, we loved them so much, which is why we wouldn't hesitate to run in 5th ed.

Well - there is also grenade )). Wyches can throw it.

True, I'll take that, at this point, anything remotely positive is good...

But if you compare our wyches to other armies' assault choices and what they can shoot before assaul- nah, let's not go there, least wait until we get the full rulebook which will inevitably has a page that says "DE, you stinky poopy face", written in red crayon.

Though, this does mean Lelith's BS9 is finally having a purpose...

KheraKhera wrote:

inevitably has a page that says "DE, you stinky poopy face", written in red crayon.

I think a little wee escaped

Eldur wrote:

so you think that a weapon that costs as much as a grotesque will only give S3 AP3 ID attacks. When a power sword costs 5 silly points.

It wouldn't be that strange if they give Incubi AP3 ccw, not at all, specially if you look at GKs nerf. But that way we won't see many Incubi in 6th... Sh**.

I think we talk about GW here, where if you are not from the Imperium you are screwed. Yes i think we will pay 35 points for ID and ap3. If you want ID and no AP there is Flesh Gauntlet, cheaper.
And for Incubi, i was the only DE i know to use them in 5th... a nerf to them is a laughable thing at best. Everybody goes wyches, deal with 2+ with lances and 3++ with poisoned shots. In the next edition if everything is like it seems, everybody goes full shooting, take a ravager with dissies, as many raider as possible (a raider every 5 warriors) to pack more lances and a single haemie without any wargear except a shattershard. Why should we gimp ourselves?

btw about throwing granades... only 1 granade can be thrown per squad (not 1 granade type, 1 granade period), judging by the rumors. So wyches against vehicles just got 9 times worse.

Unless that rule only applies to shooting, and we still get to throw 10 grenades in combat... Then I can foresee my wyches becoming full-time tossers, or chavs? Look on the bright side though, 5 wyches all with HWG on a venom will be cheaper than 8-10 wyches with wych weapon(s), HWG, hekatrix, etc on a raider!

Funny enough, if this rumour about grenade tosser is true, did our shredder become even more undesirable? Was that even possible?!

honestly I don't think I've read so much misery spewing forth. Ever! The last two pages of this post are the closest thing to making me want to delete my membership of this forum, sorry to rant but it really gets me mad, if you really don't like it, play something else! If we're going to debate rumours, can we please try and be balanced about it?

Yes, there are some of the new rules that will badly affect us. But there are others that see us getting a serious bonus. NO-ONE else in the game has night vision on their basic troops. Can you spell alpha strike? Possibly only Necrons will be better than us at stripping hull points from vehicles, do you see anyone else that can take so many lance/haywire weapons? Plus I seem to think that I recally hellions now get a bonus I10 attack on the charge, and with a +1S on their hellglaives, I wouldn't be surprised to see them get a decent AP for a standard CCW.

As several others have said, if you're so concerned about being nerfed, wait till you've read the rulebook, then complain, I for one would like to have a reasoned and interesting discussion on how the rumours affect DE without Private Fraser pointing out just how doomed we all are.

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

honestly I don't think I've read so much misery spewing forth. Ever! The last two pages of this post are the closest thing to making me want to delete my membership of this forum, sorry to rant but it really gets me mad, if you really don't like it, play something else! If we're going to debate rumours, can we please try and be balanced about it?

^This

Eye, go look at my last post, it will warm your heart... or what's left of it... XD

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

honestly I don't think I've read so much misery spewing forth. Ever! The last two pages of this post are the closest thing to making me want to delete my membership of this forum, sorry to rant but it really gets me mad, if you really don't like it, play something else! If we're going to debate rumours, can we please try and be balanced about it?

Yes, there are some of the new rules that will badly affect us. But there are others that see us getting a serious bonus. NO-ONE else in the game has night vision on their basic troops. Can you spell alpha strike? Possibly only Necrons will be better than us at stripping hull points from vehicles, do you see anyone else that can take so many lance/haywire weapons? Plus I seem to think that I recally hellions now get a bonus I10 attack on the charge, and with a +2S on their hellglaives, I wouldn't be surprised to see them get a decent AP for a standard CCW.

As several others have said, if you're so concerned about being nerfed, wait till you've read the rulebook, then complain, I for one would like to have a reasoned and interesting discussion on how the rumours affect DE without Private Fraser pointing out just how doomed we all are.

Well said!

Stay positive citizens. When we have the whole picture (FAQ included) we'll know how to tweak our lists. Certain things may not work, but new opportunities may open up. Its easy to feel cheated when a favorite army appears to be nerfed, but GW is a business and will want to keep a range it has recently updated still selling. I admit I felt the rage, but really we cant judge until we have rolled dice a few times and know for sure how DE now work.

A note on grenades. Was it 2nd or 3rd that let you forgo shooting and lob a grenade? I suspect it works the same and you still get to use them in combat against vehicles. And on a plus point our plasma grenades are str 6 I believe.

I have to chime in on the subject of negativity as well. We still don't know plenty of rules, we don't know our own special weapon stats (because those that take the pictures only care about silly force weapons), so it's a bit premature to call DE useless now. We're not Eldar still, nor are we Tau, and we're definitely not Tyranids. We shouldn't be mewling like some miserable, battered slaves.

Whether it's negative or positive, we're still reacting to the rumours we've heard so far, so what's wrong with that? And really, most of the "positive" rumours for DE so far are for shooting, if we're more invested in the assault side, I can't see how we're supposed to rejoice about our assault DE being nerfed that hard.

And, it was either from Dakka or reddit, but apparently hammer of wrath uses our base S with no special weapon bonus, but auto-hit, so we get 1 extra S3 attack per hellion on a charge. Hopefully FC and drug bonuses still count so we can at least get it to S4-5.

And lastly, how is the negative views(myself included) unreasonable? I don't think I've read anyone just outright saying "DE is doomed! FOREVER!!", but rather "from the rumours so far, assault DE are doomed, here are the reasons...", and how is that unreasonable? This is a rumour thread, after all. And I and many others who are displeased with the rumours so far would be so glad to be proven wrong by the actual rulebook, but far as I see, we're in a rumour thread, talking about the known rumours. Unless you can tell me some positive rumours regarding our assault units... Then I'll pre-emptively apologise for reacting to the known rumours negatively.

I, personally, am not gonna give up my assault DE even if all these rumours turned out true, and GW forget to FAQ our agoniser, huskblade, etc to give AP2 or lower, because I've already paid for the units... But this doesn't mean things are looking well for those who wanna assault and do well.

I agree on that there is too much negativity going on here. It's almost like on WarSeer! I wouldn't have expected this from our site...

Stay positive, folks! Wait for the rulebook!
Grow up and don't 'rage-quit' before anything has been tested, please.

Wait for the Rulebook!

Kinnay wrote:

don't 'rage-quit' before anything has been tested

Or do... saves the rest of the true dark kin the trouble of having to hunt down and destroy the sniveling whelps... XD

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Honestly, it doesn't matter to me how good or bad DE become in the new rulebook, I'll still be playing them, and doing what I can to kick !@@. When the 5th ed rulebook came out (when I started playing DE, though I wanted to pick them up from the start, but decided to wait til a new codex dropped), all the dudes I play with looked at the book, built list after list, then built more lists. Mathhammered and playtested and declared DE to be unplayable. I was told by multiple people that there was not a single winning list in the entire codex (and me new to not only DE but also 40k as a whole), even a DE veteran told me that the new codex was horrible and that you couldn't win with it. I played with my first ever army, 1500 pts DE. 4 10 man warrior squads with a darklance, on foot, 1 10 man wych squad with 2 hydra guantlets (not even a hek), one 9 man wych squad with hydra guantlet and lellith attached, two raiders, two talos and a count-as bomber. I got roflstomped, every game I played, for like 6 games.

Instead of getting disheartened, I decided I was going to win... I started looking on this forum, got some army ideas and went back and destroyed all my friends. When I moved form Germany (and thus away from my play group) I started playing them in Vassal, where we all have unlimited models, and I decided that mechspam wasn't my thing. I switched up to a WWP list. I went on to get smashed in the face again, using a tactic that most people would declare hit or miss (mostly miss). So i went and refined my list, and here recently I've been winning with it too.

Just because something becomes hard, or is unlikely to work, doesnt mean it's impossible. Keep working on it until you succeed against all odds. In the end, isn't that what DE is about anyway?

Or is it about slaves and BDSM elves?

...

Yeah, BDSM elves...

I've been reading this thread since it started and I too was getting irritated as well. So much negativity is not the Dark Eldar way. It's not like we had a top tier codex to begin with but we made due in 5th edition. Hell, I just started the hobby a year ago and I chose Dark Eldar specifically for the challenge. I think that this new edition will prove who the true Archons are; the ones that persevere and find ways to make things work. So what if wyches and assault isn't that great any more. We will find ways around the rules and will do what we do best, beat the odds. People always underestimate Dark Eldar locally and most times I get the last laugh. I know too many people who played this army of ours and gave up because they couldn't make it work, got frustrated, and went to Necrons, Grey Knights, Guard, Space Wolves, etc. Winning isn't more important than my honor and when I beat Tier 1 armies I am proud because I won without pressing the easy button.

To all those that are jumping ship and crying "OMGWTFNERF!", good riddance. You never had what it takes to lead a kabal anyhow!