Discussion - Orbital Raid

Greetings Archons, Succubi, and assorted denizens! I come before you with a tactical notion I have had after looking through the new rulebook. As a caveat, I should point out that this is not something I've been able to try yet, but intend to test at the earliest opportunity.

2 changes to the rules have given me an idea. Firstly, the removal of the reserve limit cap (although all-reserves is still bad as you auto-lose for having nothing in play); secondly, changes to the deep-strike rules. Vehicles deep striking count as moving at combat speed, and passengers may disembark and fire as normal, counting as moving (effectively, the vehicles count as moving 6" rather than 12" as previously).

I see this has potential on our shooty units. Purchase the deep-strike upgrade on our transports (or take Sliscus), and have units turn up from above, landing in key positions behind the enemy. Disembark so that you're no longer in a floating deathtrap, and fire at full effect into your target. Raiders can be used as a shield against return fire; Ravagers can get into nuisance positions.

Mostly, I think the idea has potential for investigation now that everything can fire at full effect and passengers can disembark on the turn of arrival, getting into key positions that much faster. Hoping to stimulate discussion on whether or not this is viable, and the best way of putting the plan into practice.

It is a plan I hope to attempt within the next week, most likely with Sliscus, thusly I'm eager to hear any and all input on the issue.
I do believe it is viable, my concern would be the issue of balancing out how many units to reserve vs how many to keep on the table.

If u run Haemie and Wracks with double Liquifier this could work in getting your flamers close

There is another fine thing in that regard, Interceptor now works at the end of the movement phase, which means that we can arrive from reserve, disembark, and only transport will bear the brunt of intercept. And it can jink.

Guesss you can still take 5 man kabalites with blaster and blast pistol in raider/venom.

Interceptor could still hit the disembarking unit as they arrived from reserve that turn; be careful to use the transport as a LoS blocking shield.

I'm getting my first game of 7th on Wednesday. Current plan is to try something like this out.

Panic_Puppet wrote:

Interceptor could still hit the disembarking unit as they arrived from reserve that turn; be careful to use the transport as a LoS blocking shield.

I'm getting my first game of 7th on Wednesday. Current plan is to try something like this out.

Unless you modify the flying stands on your raiders (cheese IMO) you'll likely find that they don't really give you any cover as they are high enough up that usually don't block your infantry units.


Tall units like Grots or wraithguard would likely get blocked though.

The interceptor gun will be able to hit the disembarked troops, that's true BUT if your opponent choose to do so, he will be forced to snapfire because infantry is not a skimmer nor a flyer and most interceptor gun (but not all) also have skyfire.

Update: I've played two games now with an orbital raid list, and it works BRILLIANTLY. The actual list itself that I've been running could use a few tweaks, but most people aren't prepared for the sheer amount of Dakka the list puts out. The fact that you have a 4+ jink save without having to compromise on your passengers' shooting is amazing; and not being able to fire a dark lance from a raider is really not a big deal. The core that I would definitely keep consists of:

Sliscus and 9 warriors in a raider with splinter racks
10 warriors with a cannon in a raider with splinter racks
5 haywyches in a dual-cannon venom
5 haywyches in a dual-cannon venom
Ravager
Ravager

931 points for that 'core' set, plenty of room to build around and it's solid; 8 super-scoring units (thanks to Objective Secured) passing across to the raiders and venoms), anything with a toughness value doesn't appreciate the frankly ludicrous amount of splinter fire, and there's enough lances and haywire grenades to take on armoured targets. If I was told I was playing in a 1000 point tournament tomorrow I'd throw in 3 reavers and call it a list; the only things that bother it hugely are fliers, and those can be worked around.

@Silverglade - I generally find my warriors get blocked because most interceptor is on things like quad guns, hydras, etc... the key thing is that the intercepting thing itself is elevated, and tends not to be able to see 'under' the raider as a result. Even if it's a ground based interceptor, you can still move far enough away from the raider with a 6" disembark to either get behind cover, or force an oblique enough angle that the warriors are obscured enough to grant a cover save.

I've been Orbital Raiding since forever. The new rules have proved very productive for me so far. I highly recommend such lists.

It might be worth using the Kabalite Stormsurge formation along with it, so you can keep everything else in reserves, while the Stormsurge deploys in your first turn and can only be hit by snapshots by everything without skyfire, which most armies (at least in my meta) don't have on turn one.

Sounds promising!! What do you keep on the table to prevent tabling? Also I am almost.certain that formation is apocalypse only.

I'm not sure about whether it's apocalypse only, mostly because I don't know how to tell the difference between the apoc and non apoc ones. As it's the WD one,

It depends on the wording on the rule book. I believe in 6th you needed something on the table at the end of the turn otherwise you were tabled. If it's the similar in 7th then maybe the Stormsurge keeps you from being tabled, or if not you can hide some stuff in terrain or something. This might actually be a good use for Mandrakes.

Tried a Sliscus style army today. Was generally happy with it although I am not convinced it's more than a fun to semi-competitive army type. I faced an unusual mechanized Tau army that featured three Hammer Heads and two Sunsharks. This is what I used:

HQ
Sliscus
Autarch on Jetbike with Laser Lance and Mantle of the Laughing God

Troops
9 Kabalite Warriors with Blaster in Raider with Splinter Racks and Flicker Fields
7 Wyches with Haywire Grenades led by Hekatri with Venom Blade and PGL in Raider with Flicker Fields
7 Wyches with Haywire Grenades led by Hekatri with Venom Blade and PGL in Raider with Flicker Fields
5 Kabalite Warriors with Blaster in Venom
5 Kabalite Warriors with Blaster in Venom
3 Guardian Jetbikes

Heavy Support
Ravager with Flicker Fields
Ravager with Flicker Fields
Razorwing Jetfighter with Flicker Fields

Did an entire reserve army, relying on the Jetbikes and Autarch to seize objectives, manipulate reserves, and prevent tabling. Most of the army arrived fine and dandy turn 2 whereupon I scored First Blood and forced all three Hammerheads to Jink. I managed to kill most of his stuff although ended up losing the game (Sunsharks are actually quite nasty vs DE for 150 points).

I will note that I do not actually own the Core Rule Book as of yet so Eldar reserve manipulation may have been illegal. If it is not, then I think Autarchs will be my go to over Farseers.

so, lemme get this straight, GW will let a raider come flying down from the sky and allow their occupants to hop out and shoot at normal BS, but won't let them do this when they are not disembarking from a raider flying down from the sky?  or did i miss something?

The Kabalite Stormsurge is definitely an Apocalypse Datasheet Formation.
I've got the copy of the White Dwarf it's in, and the heading of the section it's in is
"THE RULES Apocalypse Datasheet".

Later on they talk about it, and I quote "you can use this formation in any game of Warhammer 40,000 Apocalypse"

I'd post a pic, but I'm sure that's breaking some copyright somethingorother.

@OP - I was going to DS Raiders today, but got the Master of Ambush trait and infiltrated them instead. Next time!

Laughingcarp wrote:

The Kabalite Stormsurge is definitely an Apocalypse Datasheet Formation.
I've got the copy of the White Dwarf it's in, and the heading of the section it's in is
"THE RULES Apocalypse Datasheet".

Later on they talk about it, and I quote "you can use this formation in any game of Warhammer 40,000 Apocalypse"

I'd post a pic, but I'm sure that's breaking some copyright somethingorother.

@OP - I was going to DS Raiders today, but got the Master of Ambush trait and infiltrated them instead. Next time!

Ok. I`m confused. Which formations are not Apoc formations so we can use them in normal game, cuz i believe there is something about formations in Rulebook?

Damned if I know, brother.
Best I can figure is that's a teaser for all the stuff they PLAN on releasing in the future.

@Dark Kindred - technically you can keep everything in reserve, but you'll lose automatically unless you have drop pods. There's no longer a reserve limit, but you lose the game if you have 0 models on the table at the end of any game turn, and since reserves don't start to show until turn 2...

@Skari - what I start on the table depends on what my opponent has. A lot of the time I imagine I'll just be reserving a few key units to pressure the opponent, but if there are times where mono-reserving seems wise it's possible to just deploy a few units out of sight.

Re: the formations - if they're Apocalypse only it'll mention it somewhere, usually in the term Apocalypse Datasheet.

MFive wrote:

so, lemme get this straight, GW will let a raider come flying down from the sky and allow their occupants to hop out and shoot at normal BS, but won't let them do this when they are not disembarking from a raider flying down from the sky?  or did i miss something?

No things have changed in 7th, deepstriking vehicles count as moving at combat speed, so the passengers can now fire at full BS without disembarking.

I am liking the orbital raid theme. And using the autarchs reserve manipulation is 100 percent legal, as you are battle brothers. On that note, you can take a corsair prince in a second allied detachment, and he gives 3 units in the army deepstrike. So you can even pick random infantry to DS lol. Just some of the things to play with.

Laughingcarp wrote:

The Kabalite Stormsurge is definitely an Apocalypse Datasheet Formation.
I've got the copy of the White Dwarf it's in, and the heading of the section it's in is
"THE RULES Apocalypse Datasheet".

Later on they talk about it, and I quote "you can use this formation in any game of Warhammer 40,000 Apocalypse"

I'd post a pic, but I'm sure that's breaking some copyright somethingorother.

@OP - I was going to DS Raiders today, but got the Master of Ambush trait and infiltrated them instead. Next time!

I thought this for a brief time as well, but the actual Stormsurge rules never mention the word Apocalypse anywhere in them.

Apocalypse is mentioned several other times in the magazine (and since the issue was published during the 6th edition, when formations were not legal in regular 40k, it WAS only available in Apoc at the time) but never within the datasheet itself.

Someone asked which units to keep on the table to prevent being tabled. If you're going Stormsurge, then you don't need any. Otherwise, I usually start a Talos or maybe a couple of Ravagers on the board. If I have any buildings with Wracks in them, I'm more willing to leave more stuff in Reserve. Ravagers are hard to kill first turn (especially with Night Shields) and Talos Engines cannot Deep Strike, so they often wind up being bullet shields in my army. If they survive, it's an extra added bonus.

The exception is if I'm FACING an all reserves list. Deathwing or Drop Pods can cross the table first turn and wipe out all my units. In those cases, I usually start just enough to weather the first turn assault, and leave as much as I dare in Reserve (so that I can rear-assault the rear-assault).

Hope that helps.

Skari wrote:

I am liking the orbital raid theme. And using the autarchs reserve manipulation is 100 percent legal, as you are battle brothers. On that note, you can take a corsair prince in a second allied detachment, and he gives 3 units in the army deepstrike. So you can even pick random infantry to DS lol. Just some of the things to play with.

That's good to know. Trying out different deployment methods is really liberating. Looking forward to rolling infiltrate on the Strategic traits table and outflanking a bunch of Raiders/Venoms.

The Stormsurge Datasheet itself may not mention apocalypse but it does mention keeping the units in STRATEGIC reserve... which is an apocalypse terme. As much as I would like to field it in a regular game, it's obvious that it means for Apocalypse use only.

As mentioned, the Stormsurge data sheet falls under the heading/title/label/whatever you want to call it "Apocalypse Datasheet Formation".
The word Apocalypse is used to INTRODUCE the data sheet. I'm not seeing how that is vague or non-specific.
It's in the title, it doesn't need to be in the subscript. And it's mentioned once again as they're discussing it, previously quoted by me.

More's the pity.

As for the orbital raid plan;
From those of you with experience running Sliscus, how do you usually play him? Keep him with Kabbies/Splinterborn? Push him up in CC, with wyches or Incubi? Chase flyers to Snapfire blast pistols and hit frequently?

Laughingcarp wrote:

From those of you with experience running Sliscus, how do you usually play him? Keep him with Kabbies/Splinterborn? Push him up in CC, with wyches or Incubi? Chase flyers to Snapfire blast pistols and hit frequently?

Deploy with Trueborn to get the 3+ poison but shift into a unit of Wyches asap to benefit from his combat ability.